Proof of Ancient Jewish Existence in Israel

[Isambard]

Interesting. That's the first time I've seen a Bible verse that uses the word "Palestine". I haven't looked at all the verses you quoted, but I have checked out Joel 3:4 in every translation available at Bible Gateway. Four versions had "Palestine" in that verse:

• King James Version
• Authorized (King James) Version
• 21st Century King James Versioin
• Wycliffe Bible

Fascinating! You can add to your list - American KJV, Websters and The Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge.

Take a look at the words, "and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine". That makes perfect sense.

If we now change the word to Philistia - and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Philistia. It no longer makes any sense. Tyre and Zidon (Sidon) are way up North, nowhere near Philistia.

I have no particular allegiance to any particular version of the Bible but I must say, this time, it has to be the KJV or nothing.

For some reason I don't understand, you seem to want to make Palestine disappear from history. You have a hell of a lot of maps to ignore, not least Rabbi Joseph Schwaz's map dated 1867 based on Numbers (see above). He obviously knew all about it even if you and I seem a little vague about its extent.

Wikipedia tells us that the Ancient Greeks wrote about Palestine but sadly it doesn't give any references that I can spot.

The best source of information, for the last few hundred years would be the Ottoman rulers of that area. Unfortunately I do not speak Turkish but most English versions of Ottoman maps show Syria extending all the way down OR Palestine starting about half way down. Some even show Palestine for the whole coastline.

 

[Isambard]

How do you ignore biblical references to Palestine?

How do you ignore the post immediately previous to yours? (I posted the answer 20 minutes before you posted the question. We weren't posting at the same time.) As for the rest, I have to get back to work now, but I'll answer tonight when I get home.

The TOG
​

How? Because we seem to have two different conversations running at the same time.

 

[turnorburn]

Isambard said:

Sorry, I'm starting to ramble. My question is basically, why do you say Hebrew when you presumably mean all Jews?

Lets say you were going into battle, the troops asked you who was coming to the party which of the two would strike fear in your heart?

When Jesus spoke to Moses in the mount was Moses Hebrew or Jew?

tob

 

[TOG]

Just to get some perspective, look at the attachment (I hope it works this time). Do people really want to put two independent nations in there, especially considering that one had vowed to wipe the other off the map?

 

[4crunburg]

Proof ofAncient Jewish Existence in Israel<o></o>

Just because someone finds a carving in stone that shows a five pointed star does not in itself prove that there was some ancient Israel. No place existed in historical history, no,nada. You can dream the dream if you must and pretend to yourself if you must but the Romans were there and they never called the place “Israel” but instead called the place Palestine because that is what the land was called at the time, not “Israel”. Israel was the name of a man, not a place. But if you choose to pretend otherwise, go for it. My children believed in Santa Clause, you can believe in some ancient Israel as well. Personally I could care less. <o></o>

 

[jasoncran]

first off the star of david is a six sided star and finally what exactly was the king of david ruling over? palenstine is the LATIN word for philistine. its well known that isreal was hated by the romans.

 

[Isambard]

Isambard said:

Sorry, I'm starting to ramble. My question is basically, why do you say Hebrew when you presumably mean all Jews?

Lets say you were going into battle, the troops asked you who was coming to the party which of the two would strike fear in your heart?

When Jesus spoke to Moses in the mount was Moses Hebrew or Jew?

tob

I must apologise again. I don't understand your latest metaphor either. Are you saying that the appropriate word actually is 'Jews' but you prefer to say 'Hebrews' because it carries some cache? I have no idea why one or the other would be more scary.

I must confess, I have no recollection of Jesus ever speaking to Moses. They lived in vastly different eras. Moses was clearly a Hebrew but what was Jesus? He lived a few thousand years later and spoke a different language?

 

[Isambard]

My original point was questioning why people felt that The State of Israel had a greater right than anyone else.

And my point was to answer that. The Jews have had an independent kingdom in the area in question. The Palestinians have never ruled that area. Nobody else is laying claim to it, so it seems to me that the only previous ruler of the land that is currently laying claim to it should have it.

The TOG
​

I'm sure you recognise the partiality in that view. It seems we are unlikely to agree - which is why I advocated giving the whole problem to the UN to solve. They walked away from a mess which is only going to end in tragedy.

 

[Isambard]

palenstine is the LATIN word for philistine..

Spelling error aside, that is not correct jasoncran. What dictionary did you use?

Palestine
Arabic: فلسطين‎ Filasṭīn, Falasṭīn
Greek: Παλαιστίνη, Palaistinē
Latin: Palaestina
Hebrew: פלשתינה Palestina

Philistine
Arabic: Fɪlɨstin, fɪlɨstaɪn
Greek Philistnoi
Latin Philistn
Hebrew: פְּלִשְׁתִּים, PliÅ¡tim, Plitîm, Pleshet or Peleset​

There are very obvious differences in all these languages. They certainly are not interchangeable terms.

 

[4crunburg]

I searched for an ancient map of “Israel†and what I got was the following. I found no place called “Israelâ€. Can anyone here explain this?<o></o>

http://tinyurl.com/kf4fzfy<o></o>

http://tinyurl.com/b4nuq4<o></o>

http://tinyurl.com/plbsm76<o></o>


<o></o>

 

[4crunburg]

sorry but I cannot control the text "size"?

 

[jasoncran]

really so you think that HEBREWS would call their own land palenstine? really what was called the gaza strip? ekron is part of the palenstinian area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekron

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Palestine_Mandate

can you show me that david reigned over palenstine? that the jews were called by the romans palenstinians? and that the ancients peoples of the land were muslims?

Pal·es·tine

<SUP></SUP>/ˈpæləˌstaɪn for 1, 2; ˈpæləˌstin for 3/ http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.htmlShow Spelled [pal-uh-stahyn for 1, 2; pal-uh-steen for 3] http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.htmlShow IPA
noun 1. Also called Holy Land. Biblical name Canaan. an ancient country in SW Asia, on the E coast of the Mediterranean.

2. a former British mandate (1923–48) comprising part of this country, divided between Israel, Jordan, and Egypt in 1948: the Jordanian and Egyptian parts were occupied by Israel in 1967.

3. a city in E Texas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

 

[jasoncran]

I am wrong but on that but Im jewish we don't call our land palenstine but isreal. archeology used to dismiss david as a myth, if that is what you are arguing then jesus too is a myth. careful with that. jesus was asked was he the king of the jews. the jews had a belief, what was that?

 

[Isambard]

I searched for an ancient map of “Israel” .... I found no place called “Israel”. Can anyone here explain this?

You are obviously making the wrong search. If you search for ~ KINGDOM OF ISRAEL MAP ~ you should find all the maps of 'Ancient' Israel that you could possibly want - most of them different.

If that doesn't work, buy a new computer ;)

 

[4crunburg]

2. a former British mandate (1923–48) comprising part of this country, divided between Israel, Jordan, and Egypt in 1948: the Jordanian and Egyptian parts were occupied by Israel in 1967.

Sorry but I do not see anything ancient about the dates above. I provided "ancient" maps that proved my point and now it is your turn to do the same to prove me wrong. Just saying that such maps exist does not cut it.

 

[4crunburg]

jesus was asked was he the king of the jews. the jews had a belief, what was that?

At first I thought you were just kidding but ok, I will play this game. Jesus lived in Jerusalem and the land at the time was not called "Israel". Can you tell me what the land was called at the time?

 

[jasoncran]

jesus was raised in the temple. the jews spoke Hebrew/Aramaic. moses also spoke Aramaic. Aramaic is still in use in some jewish traditions.

jesus also was the son of david, the temple worship used Hebrew not Aramaic. so jesus must have known how to understand the Hebrew. jews are Hebrews but not all Hebrews are jews. David was a jew. why? because he was the son of Judah. both the tribes of Judah and Benjamin are considered to be part of the jewish land(kingdom)

 

[4crunburg]

can you show me that david reigned over palenstine? that the jews were called by the romans palenstinians

Below is what your link provided.

The site of Tel Miqne was lightly occupied beginning in the Chalcolithic period and up to the Early Bronze Age. After a 400-year gap when only the upper tel was occupied, the city underwent a major expansion c.1600 BCE, under the Canaanites.

Please tell us all who/what the Canaanites were?

 

[4crunburg]

jews are Hebrews but not all Hebrews are jews

Please explain the above. I see a contradiction here and need a bit of clarification just to being to understand the point you were trying to make?

 

[jasoncran]

jesus was asked was he the king of the jews. the jews had a belief, what was that?

At first I thought you were just kidding but ok, I will play this game. Jesus lived in Jerusalem and the land at the time was not called "Israel". Can you tell me what the land was called at the time?

it was called Judea.

but first.

a prophecy what was the house of Jacob? the entire nation of isreal. that is land and people. luke 1
[/quote]
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
<SUP class=versenum>32 </SUP>He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
<SUP class=versenum>33 </SUP>And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
<SUP class=versenum>34 </SUP>Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
<SUP class=versenum>35 </SUP>And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.[/quote]

luke 2
2 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.
<SUP class=versenum>2 </SUP>(And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
<SUP class=versenum>3 </SUP>And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
<SUP class=versenum>4 </SUP>And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David

now then I don't have to go into the archology of the but there was a prophecy of this that I shall use james one to mention since im sure you know about the lost trbes of isreal(ten northern kingdom).

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting

now then I shall go into the throne of david that was a throne over all tribes. it wasn't separated until the death of Solomon.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_isreal


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Israel_(Samaria)

isreal under david and Solomon. you forget that in revalation the twelve tribes of isreal is mention save one dan. and a few other tribes are listed in the new testament. one to wit, asher. this was kept by the records of geneology in Jerusalem.