Bible Study Prosperity Has It's Dangers.

[Chopper]

Luke 18:18-25 Has an account of a very prosperous man who became interested in spiritual matters.

Luke 18:18 "And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. 8:21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. 18:23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. 18:24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

I'm not going to bash the "Prosperity Gospel" with this thread, but I would like to point out a few area's or dangers that the prosperous will face. The unwise will suffer loss, the wise will be blessed. Lets look at this man and see what Jesus says about His lifestyle.

According to this man's spiritual customes he would be classified as "having it together." I realize that He's Jewish but for my illustration, he's a Christian, OK? So here's Joe Christian, and Joe is enjoying life's journey with a good job, nice home, good Christian wife and two great Christian Kids. Prosperity? Oh yes, he's the "poster child".

Joe and his family are members of the Prosperity Assemblies of God Church just down the Street, and a missionary is visiting his church. Joe gets convicted that his Salvation might not be genuine because he had always heard that if you became a Christian, God would make you prosperous. Joe now thinks his motive to become a Christian was not right and now wants to make sure he's saved.

Now Joe has a problem. This missionary is suggesting that Joe sell his boat, Harley, jet ski's, airplane, BMW, summer cottage, etc, etc and give the money raised for missions, Joe says, "No Way! I worked hard for those toys and I'm keeping them! Plus, I was told that if I became a Christian and join this church, I get these things.

What do you think about this example? Has the "Prosperity so-called Gospel" produced a kind of false religion? I realize that not much has been said about Joe's lifestyle so we can't say much about the validity of his Salvation but lets just consider what kind of Gospel are we presenting to the unsaved, or should I say, what kind of Gospel should we be presenting to the unsaved?

Unfortunately, there are friends and family that we so desperately want to become a Christian and wonder what it'll take for them to say yes....case in point, my real Brother is not saved and is hard to the Gospel. I have wondered at times, in a fleshly way, what it will take.

 

[AirDancer]

"Now Joe has a problem. This missionary is suggesting that Joe sell his boat, Harley, jet ski's, airplane, BMW, summer cottage, etc, etc and give the money raised for missions, Joe says, "No Way! I worked hard for those toys and I'm keeping them! Plus, I was told that if I became a Christian and join this church, I get these things."

Yes, Joe has a problem. He bought into the man-made philosophy, and now doesn't want to 'share the wealth,' so to speak. And in this presented scenario, Joe isn't willing to let go of his 'toys' to help fund missions - or anything else, for that matter.

Instead of retaining enough of his money to support his family comfortably and then using the rest of his available monies to help the "widows and orphans," he clings to his man-made promises.

 

[Edward]

I loved the prosperity gospel when I first heard it. I didn't turn to the Lord for prosperity, but it was a nice thought that it was to be coming.
It didn't. I was prosperous already in my mind. The Lord stripped me of all that worldly deception and now I'm at the bottom of the barrel scratching...Or am I?

Here we go back to Lazarus and the rich man again. The rich man was suffering because he had it good while he was alive. Lazarus was doing good because he suffered most of his earthly life. I understand that now and don't miss even what prosperity I had. It may be a drag now...but this life will be over so fast that it's almost absurd to want prosperity in the here and now.

I do not pray for prosperity. I do not pray for poverty. I take each day as it comes and thank the Lord for my daily bread. When I lay down to sleep, I thank the Lord that I have a comfortable bed to lay mu head on and rest, and for the roof over my head.

I'm content and not really wanting for anything. When I do occasionally get discouraged and feel as if I need this or that, I just think of the many in the world who are in real poverty. No shoes, no eating for days, not even good drinking water for a lot. Viewed in that perspective, I'm rich Brother.

Most of the wants that people have, aren't really needs but wants and go down into the heart to a foundation of pride, envy or covetousness anyway.

I praise the Lord that I'm where I am. It could be a lot worse. I don't take what I do have for granted.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

I think God gives us oppurtunities to share our wealth, our kindness, and anything else that we can do. But wealth is a hard thing to just give up. We have been taught about different scams out there that try and take all your money away, and for those reasons we find ways to be guarded with our money and hold on to it. On the same line of thought as scams though is that even if your really just being generous, and no harm to you is being gone, and what your donating to us real, there's also the idea "are they taking advantage of me." And so there's at least one other perspective to tighten our grip on money. Then there's the other aspect of giving up your wealth, the actual resources your giving up. Even if all it is is giving up your toys, those toys are something you probabley liked and don't want to lose. Past the toys though, sometimes what we have is what we think we need, so we don't share because we think that then we won't have enough to get by.

All of this I think adds to how we are uncharitable, when we are in fact uncharitable. There is one other side to prosperity though that sometimes comes through. In one way or another, sometimes prosperity and the drive to be prosperous blinds us of God, and blinds us of the needs of others. I don't think it's a conidiance that most of the time things were looking well for Isreal they turned away from God, and times when their need was great they eventually turned to God. There is danger with any enviornment, even in one that is rich, it can blind a person from following God by blinding your need for God, or the danger to harden a person's heart to others, because they should be self sufficient like the rich man is.

 

[Kidron]

Poverty has harmed more already then prosperity ever will.
There is nothing good about being broke.
Being broke, living in poverty, never leads to a deeper spirituality, it only leads to bitterness, spiritual pride, and a shortened lifespan.
The most self righteous people in the world, Christian, will argue endlessly that having very little prosperity is to be more spiritual.
Money is a blessing and its a tool and your BIBLE, your NT, tells you that YOU are an INFIDEL if you dont provided *SUPPLY* for your family.
**Supply** IS = the prosperity that BUYS the food, the clothes, the HOUSE, and Pays the BILLS.

Are riches ok for a Christian?......they are as Ok as the Christian is mature in their character.
Is God rich?
Only if he owns it all.
Does he?
Are you one of his?.....then do the math.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Poverty has harmed more already then prosperity ever will.
There is nothing good about being broke.
Being broke, living in poverty, never leads to a deeper spirituality, it only leads to bitterness, spiritual pride, and a shortened lifespan.
The most self righteous people in the world, Christian, will argue endlessly that having very little prosperity is to be more spiritual.
Money is a blessing and its a tool and your BIBLE, your NT, tells you that YOU are an INFIDEL if you dont provided *SUPPLY* for your family.
**Supply** IS = the prosperity that BUYS the food, the clothes, the HOUSE, and Pays the BILLS.

Are riches ok for a Christian?......they are as Ok as the Christian is mature in their character.
Is God rich?
Only if he owns it all.
Does he?
Are you one of his?.....then do the math.

We've lived in a world where prosperity comes at the cost of some one else's poverty. Though it might not be that extreme always, in many cases it is. The job markets have a perspective around them with the idea that a job is a resource. One that has a limited amount of it. It's one of the cornerstones to argue against illegal aliens and refugees coming into your country. They'll take away your job.

Without that aspect of people coming into the country, we still have the job verses population ratio to look at. A job that requires less people makes more prosperity for the employer, but less jobs for the people. A job with less income for the employee makes more income for the employer. The enviornment surrounding money and wealth has many pitholes to snare a person from being Godly, and obeying God.

Can you be both rich and rightous by God? Yes, yes you can. But I think Jesus had merrit by saying it is easier for a camel to walk through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to go to the kingdom of heaven. Mark 10:23-27

 

[Chopper]

Poverty has harmed more already then prosperity ever will.
There is nothing good about being broke.
Being broke, living in poverty, never leads to a deeper spirituality, it only leads to bitterness, spiritual pride, and a shortened lifespan.
The most self righteous people in the world, Christian, will argue endlessly that having very little prosperity is to be more spiritual.
Money is a blessing and its a tool and your BIBLE, your NT, tells you that YOU are an INFIDEL if you dont provided *SUPPLY* for your family.
**Supply** IS = the prosperity that BUYS the food, the clothes, the HOUSE, and Pays the BILLS.

Are riches ok for a Christian?......they are as Ok as the Christian is mature in their character.
Is God rich?
Only if he owns it all.
Does he?
Are you one of his?.....then do the math.

For the most part, I agree with you my friend. Being poor, or just scraping by, sucks!!

 

[Christ_empowered]

Poverty is no good. For me...I dunno...I had little $$$ in my early 20s, which I think is or used to be fairly normal, but my community set out to "make an example out of me." Anyway, its like...I had enough $$$ because of my parents to get by (I'm mentally ill, so jobs are...rough), but I was labeled "poor white trash" and treated accordingly. And I agree with Kidron. Poverty brings out the worst in everybody. The poor people suffer, then those who aren't poor look down on and oppress the "poor white trash" (or whatever they call the poor people in that area), and the main problem--lack of resources--is compounded by social stuff. Its always been that way, probably always will be that way.

For me, I'm in the process of earning (at long last) my undergrad online. I'm hoping that, despite everything, if I can get credentials, I can get a decent job at some point. I'm not looking to be super successful, I just don't want to be oppressed and living under pressure. I mean, money...money is just a tool. Its morally neutral. Its how you approach it, use it, pursue (or reject) it that matters.

And that is all from me.

 

[jasonc]

most Americans haven't a clue what poverty is. has anyone been poor that they have no running water? electric? or live in a condemned home? I fit this in my youth. we went without water In the home an power. I know some have it worse then me in their youth but poor is relative. our poor have smart phones, food that they will toss in the trash.

 

[Mike S]

Prosperity Gospel has never had any appeal for me. It goes completely against my religious beliefs. In fact, I see very little difference between that thinking than the thinking of Job's three "friends" that Job was in a condition of worldly poverty and disgrace because he had sinned and was not sufficiently righteous. The expectation of success in this world is not a quid pro quo of Christianity. In fact, if we follow the example of Christ we will likely suffer and be despised in this world.

 

[smaller]

The "rich" young ruler obviously got the association/allegory test, which he failed miserably at.

Jesus was obviously speaking to him via His typical parable, when launching into citings of a camel going through the eye of a needle associating that to the inability of the rich to enter heaven. The disciples didn't get it either.

Were we to take Jesus in the strictly literal senses, the only people who would enter heaven would be the naked starving penniless.

That isn't even in the ballpark of what He was speaking of. Jesus purposefully deployed His Sights/Speech via allegory, and this speaking, though in plain sight, can not be deciphered in literal senses. The rich young ruler was caught up in legalism in the external senses, perhaps not much different than the typical pharisee. Where does it say in the law to sell everything you have and give to the poor? There is no such command.

Equally, there is no dictate from God in Christ to abandon our family, wife and children, for the Gospel. Again, these things are not deciphered literally:

29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,
30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

Yet, some ding dongs actually still do this, thinking that to be the path to heaven.

Strict literalism is a killer of spiritual understandings. The law is spiritual and should be understood that way.

The rich young ruler along with many of the other accounts of the "rich" are actually much more interesting. It has exactly ZERO to do with money. Right along with the balance of Jesus Words stating we are to "hate" ourselves, our family, cut off our hands, pluck out our eyes, etc etc.

Literalism is a spiritual disease of people inflicted with fleshly external sights of spiritual matters.

Do we really think for example, that Jesus is going to have unbelievers brought before him and slain? Kinda like an Islamist might propose?

Luke 19
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

 

[Kidron]

We've lived in a world where prosperity comes at the cost of some one else's poverty.

i just can't buy your point of view.
You are saying that the only reason some have abundant prosperity is because they didnt work for it, didnt understand the principals of planning and succeeding because they chose to use their education, talent, ambition, and drive, to create prosperity for themselves.
But instead they just found poor people to rob, somehow.
I just dont buy it for many reasons.
Among them, is the fact that God himself is interested in creating for his Sons and Daughters not only a life, but an abundant life, and this includes having a life that is more then just scratching up enough money to "get buy".
It fact, it is your bible that tells you in Deut 8:18 "But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth"""

Now, notice that the verse does not say...."i will give you WEALTH"......but rather it says....."power to get it".
This "power", is understood as "ideas", "health", "drive", "help", "windows of opportunities" that a person works out.
Its an empowering to achieve, and not just pennies from heaven while you sit there and count it.
Its all about God being involved in the process that YOU DO.
He assists in the process of achieving.
However, Its all about YOU DOING, and not about sitting and waiting for it to happen.
You dont "name it and claim it" , unless you are willing to do the leg work that is involved in the acquisition.
The cost of wealth is desire, preparation, and effort., with God providing opportunities and "handfuls on purpose" along the way.

 

[reba]

Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Seems to me to be an attitude of the heart.
some folks are jerks rich or poor..

We've lived in a world where prosperity comes at the cost of some one else's poverty. Though it might not be that extreme always, in many cases it is. The job markets have a perspective around them with the idea that a job is a resource. One that has a limited amount of it. It's one of the cornerstones to argue against illegal aliens and refugees coming into your country. They'll take away your job.

When one is in poverty the 'rich' can take nothing from them...

 

[jasonc]

It's possible to get wealth honestly,and I'm not one to think the wealthy are all bad.but the rat race,as that is what it takes can be an idol.I have been to millionaires homes,billionaires homes.no thanks.View attachment 7570

 

[reba]

I have known one super rich family in my life they were sad..

 

[Kidron]

There seems to be a real anti-prosperity sentiment here on the Forum.
Listen, money is not the enemy, but rather carnal desires, immaturity, and Satan, are the enemy.
Think of this.......a TV minister, who is interested in evangelism and not just empire building, can reach more lost souls in a 30 min broadcast then you can reach in 100 years of door to door witnessing.
So, i think its important to realize that when used properly, money is incredibly important regarding God's work.
The fact is, if you dont have a bed, a place to live, and food, you are not going to do anything for God.
Another fact is, poverty does not make you holy, it only makes you hungry.
If you read Paul's letters, you'll read where he said he knew how to "abound" and knew how to be "abased".
In other words, he's saying that he has seen both lifestyles, while a Christian,... both material abundance, and lack thereof.

 

[smaller]

So, i think its important to realize that when used properly, money is incredibly important regarding God's work.
The fact is, if you dont have a bed, a place to live, and food, you are not going to do anything for God.
Another fact is, poverty does not make you holy, it only makes you hungry.
If you read Paul's letters, you'll read where he said he knew how to "abound" and knew how to be "abased".
In other words, he's saying that he has seen both lifestyles, while a Christian,... both material abundance, and lack thereof.

Jesus managed to Speak and Act without having a large ministry or any noted amount of cash. I doubt very much that any form of legit ministry requires cash whatsoever. Most of what passes for ministry today is just pandering a one sided message to make people feel good about themselves, similarly to typical consumerism that is pumped into us non-stop by the world.

It is the nature of the Gospel message to offend, and none are, by the nature of the flesh, all that interested in hearing it anyway.

There are other aspects to the Gospel message than to just save people. Jesus, speaking post resurrection to the 7 churches of Revelation, addressed Satan and his works in all 7 churches, and yes, that is also directed to "every" member of the church. That aspect of His Ministry is so far removed from the masses under various guises it's really no longer even recognizable.

The churches today ALL sell religious insulation. And they do so because that's really all the people will "buy" and all they are interested in buying.

If Jesus actually showed up and said to any congregant as He said to Peter, "get thee behind me Satan" none of them would ever come back for a repeat as they'd all be offended, right down to the last person.

Everyone has bought, or at least thinks they have bought their personal immunity.

Chalk up to another consumer scam among a world of such. Watching the dead ritualism and mountains of flowery nonsense of the RCC pope's visit on the tube this morning reminded me of how dead this religion is, generally speaking.

 

[Kidron]

Jesus managed to Speak and Act without having a large ministry or any noted amount of cash. I doubt very much that any form of legit ministry requires cash whatsoever. Most of what passes for ministry today is just pandering a one sided message to make people feel good about themselves, .

Jesus caused a fish to have a coin in its mouth (to pay TAXES), and when the Apostles were following Jesus they had a treasurer (Judas) and they had women who gave them help....$$$$$$
There was not a piece of furniture that the carpenter Jesus every created and SOLD that he didnt get paid for, and took the money.
Paul did the same, he had churches that gave him money and he had people in his ministry that helped him out.
Paul said this......"1 Tim 5:17...."" Elders who do their work well should be respected and paid well, especially those who work hard at both preaching and teaching.""""

And to say that the proof of a "legit" ministry is that it has no money, is , well, false.
You are quite wrong unless the bible is a lie.

The fact is, if God didnt want you to have money, he would not have asked you to Tithe.

 

[reba]

There seems to be a real anti-prosperity sentiment here on the Forum.
Listen, money is not the enemy, but rather carnal desires, immaturity, and Satan, are the enemy.
Think of this.......a TV minister, who is interested in evangelism and not just empire building, can reach more lost souls in a 30 min broadcast then you can reach in 100 years of door to door witnessing.
So, i think its important to realize that when used properly, money is incredibly important regarding God's work.
The fact is, if you dont have a bed, a place to live, and food, you are not going to do anything for God.
Another fact is, poverty does not make you holy, it only makes you hungry.
If you read Paul's letters, you'll read where he said he knew how to "abound" and knew how to be "abased".
In other words, he's saying that he has seen both lifestyles, while a Christian,... both material abundance, and lack thereof.

So how many more could be reached if they used the monies given for ministry instead of big homes, jets, making 'jobs' for family... prosperity is not the problem the problem is the hypocrisy

 

[Kidron]

So how many more could be reached if they used the monies given for ministry instead of big homes, jets, making 'jobs' for family... prosperity is not the problem the problem is the hypocrisy

Would you agree that in the body of Christ, that just as many people who have a small home, a small car, and try to take care of their family, do just as little for Jesus as the "rich" Christians?
Or would you say that as long as you are poor and scrambling to make ends meet, you are going to always be the Christian who gives the most money in God's service?
So, is it a size of their money problem, or is it just a problem in general with Christians, and its not really a money issue at all ?