Protestant countries are richer and less safe, Orthodox countries are safer but less rich: discuss

[LanaPodesta]

Maybe it would help if you'd give us a list of the nations that you consider protestant and the ones you consider orthodox

This isn't my opinion. This is a fact. Go by the most popular religion followed by the most popular denomination. The USA, UK, Germany, Scandinavian countries, the Netherlands are all Protestant by their largest denominations. Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, Georgia, Russia, Ukraine are all Orthodox by the same measure.

 

[WIP]

Still a Christian country by definition. You're being pedantic.

I think your definition of Christian might be different from reality. Christianity is a way of life, not a club membership. Declaring oneself a Christian does not make it so and that's where the defining line is found. As I've already shared, Jesus made it very clear what it means to be a Christian, as recorded in John 13:35, "By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” and again, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me." Matthew 16:24 NKJV

Christianity is not just a title. It is recognition of our allegiance and devotion to Christ as the name Christian defines. True Christians would live Christlike daily. Here in the US, we have been far from Christlike in the way we live and interact with others.

 

[WIP]

This discussion is more apologetic than seeking Christian advice. I'm moving it to the Apologetics forum.

 

[LanaPodesta]

Christianity is not just a title. It is recognition of our allegiance and devotion to Christ as the name Christian defines. True Christians would live Christlike daily. Here in the US, we have been far from Christlike in the way we live and interact with others.

This is a reductive No True Scotsman fallacy. Again, who is to judge who is a 'real' Christian? I sin everyday and yet I still crave a relationship with Christ. Does that mean I'm not a Christian, just because I don't live 'Christlike' daily?

 

[LanaPodesta]

This discussion is more apologetic than seeking Christian advice. I'm moving it to the Apologetics forum.

Fair. I wasn't sure where to post it.

 

[WIP]

Again, who is to judge who is a 'real' Christian?

God.

I sin everyday and yet I still crave a relationship with Christ. Does that mean I'm not a Christian, just because I don't live 'Christlike' daily?

That is not for me to say. It is between you and God. However, as Jesus said, we will be known by our fruits but it is also arrogant for us to declare the status of another for even the thief on the cross converted as he hung there.

 

[LanaPodesta]

God.

That is not for me to say. It is between you and God. However, as Jesus said, we will be known by our fruits.

This thread is about me making an OBJECTIVE judgement about the self-identification of believers. You're being pedantic. And according to your private message YOU DON'T CONSIDER THE ORTHODOX TO EVEN BE CHRISTIAN

 

[WIP]

This thread is about me making an OBJECTIVE judgement about the self-identification of believers. You're being pedantic. And according to your private message YOU DON'T CONSIDER THE ORTHODOX TO EVEN BE CHRISTIAN

Actually, you made a personal judgment relating wealth to religion, which may or may not be relevant, and I have not declared the Orthodox denomination as non-Christian. I know very little about the Orthodoxy aside from that it split with the RCC about 1,500 years ago.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

The apparent paradox that Protestant-majority countries tend to be materially wealthier yet less safe, while Orthodox-majority countries are poorer yet often feel more socially secure, reveals deep-seated differences in cultural inheritance, economic development, and collective values. This tension invites a closer look at how religious traditions, even when they fade from personal belief, continue to shape national character and public life.

Economic Prosperity and the Protestant Legacy
The prosperity of Protestant countries — particularly those shaped by Calvinist or Puritan ethics (e.g., the UK, Germany, Scandinavia, the Netherlands, and the United States) — is often linked to what sociologist Max Weber called the “Protestant work ethic.” In this worldview, work is a moral calling, thrift is a virtue, and individual success may even signal divine favor. Over time, this ethic contributed to the rise of capitalism, industrial discipline, and institutional trust — all of which helped lay the foundation for long-term economic growth.

Yet this very individualism, combined with rapid industrialization and urban atomization, eroded the social fabric. As traditional religion declined in these societies, what remained was not a new form of communalism, but a vacuum — often filled by consumerism, alienation, or politicized identity. The result is an affluent but anxious modernity: cities lined with wealth and opportunity, but also with homelessness, addiction, social distrust, and what some might call spiritual poverty.

Safety and Softness in Orthodox Cultures
In contrast, Orthodox countries (e.g., Greece, Serbia, Georgia, Russia in parts, Romania) are often economically less developed — due to historical fragmentation, Ottoman domination, Soviet legacies, or lack of industrial scale. However, many visitors notice something striking: they feel safe. Children play outside at midnight. Old women sit unbothered in open cafes. Faces are soft. There is gentleness, even in austerity.

Orthodoxy, unlike Protestantism, emphasizes mystery, ritual, communal identity, and the sanctity of the present moment. It distrusts the abstract and the hyper-rational. Even when active religious observance is low, its cultural residue remains potent. Icons hang quietly above tills. People still cross themselves. Families remain tightly knit. Hospitality is a moral duty. There is a lived sense that beauty and reverence belong not to the exceptional, but to the everyday.

While these societies may lack material wealth, they often retain a cohesive moral atmosphere. Public space is treated with a kind of informal stewardship. The sacred is not locked in churches — it’s ambient. In this context, safety isn’t enforced by cameras or security staff, but by a lingering sense of the human as dignified.

The Modern Trade-off
Protestant societies traded cohesion for dynamism. Orthodox societies often traded prosperity for continuity.

Thus, the Protestant legacy leads to:

• High GDP and innovation
• Strong institutions, but weakened social ties
• Freedom, but also fragmentation
• Safety nets, but spiritual flatness

Whereas the Orthodox legacy yields:

• Modest economies
• Informal but thick communal networks
• Reverence for tradition, but resistance to change
• A gentler social atmosphere, even amid hardship

Conclusion
The contrast is not absolute — there are affluent safe Protestant places (like Norway), and chaotic poor Orthodox places (like parts of the Balkans). But the trend raises a deeper question: What do we want wealth for? If prosperity leads to isolation and alienation, and poverty coexists with human warmth, then perhaps the challenge is not just to get richer — but to do so without forgetting how to be human together.

The Protestant world may offer material ascent, but the Orthodox world may still offer something quietly essential: the spiritual memory of how to live well with others.

Concerning the crime angle, it does not seem fair to blame protestants for crime. Do you have any statistics correlating crime with the religious affiliations of the criminals?

 

[miamited]

This isn't my opinion. This is a fact. Go by the most popular religion followed by the most popular denomination. The USA, UK, Germany, Scandinavian countries, the Netherlands are all Protestant by their largest denominations. Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, Georgia, Russia, Ukraine are all Orthodox by the same measure.

Yes, but there are over 200 nations on the face of the earth. You list 10. Giving you three spots for the 'Scandinavian countries'. Further, when you claim 'orthodox', are you only including those that have orthodox as a part of their naming? What are the 'orthodox' religions in your understanding? Greek Orthodox? Russian Orthodox?

Literally, orthodox merely means 'straight teaching'. Personally, I've found a number of fellowships, not identified as orthodox, that offer straight teaching from the Scriptures that is inline with what the Scriptures actually teach. So, it's good that the designation of 'orthodox' gives one the understanding that their beliefs are straight teaching from the Scriptures, so too are many non-orthodox identified fellowships.

However, as far as poor vs. rich nations that may have practitioners of either faith, I don't think the religious practices would have any effect on that matter.

But anyway, a good discussion.

 

[Free]

We're literally talking about culture. Did you not read the body of my post?

You don't seem to understand that the term "cultural Christian" is to define those who claim to be Christian but actually aren't. They think they're Christian simply because they were born into a Christian family, were baptized as an infant, had First Communion, read the Bible, said a "sinner's prayer," go to church, or some other such thing. But they have never actually repented and believed in Jesus and his atoning work alone for their salvation and made him Lord. The U.S. is full of such people, hence why many of them support current events.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Even if the majority of people in a Protestant or Catholic nation are not follow scripture the cultural effects are significant…

 

[WIP]

Even if the majority of people in a Protestant or Catholic nation are not follow scripture the cultural effects are significant…

Please elaborate.

 

[LanaPodesta]

Actually, you made a personal judgment relating wealth to religion, which may or may not be relevant, and I have not declared the Orthodox denomination as non-Christian. I know very little about the Orthodoxy aside from that it split with the RCC about 1,500 years ago.

You referred to this post as being about "Christian vs Orthodox countries" implying the Orthodox are NOT Christian. This is extremely offensive.

 

[LanaPodesta]

Concerning the crime angle, it does not seem fair to blame protestants for crime. Do you have any statistics correlating crime with the religious affiliations of the criminals?

That's not the claim I made. Crime is LOWER in most Orthodox countries and HIGHER in Protestant one's. It is safer for kids to play at night in Greece than it is for them to play outside in the UK during the day.

 

[LanaPodesta]

But they have never actually repented and believed in Jesus and his atoning work alone for their salvation and made him Lord

Sounds like a No True Scotsman according to your own narrow definition of what it is to be Christian. By your reasoning I'm probably not a Christian.

 

[LanaPodesta]

Yes, but there are over 200 nations on the face of the earth. You list 10

Most countries are NEITHER Protestant or Orthodox. What's your point? I listed those that I did because for some reason people don't seem to know that the USA is Protestant or that Greece is Orthodox.

What are the 'orthodox' religions in your understanding? Greek Orthodox? Russian Orthodox?

There is no 'Greek Orthodox' or 'Russian Orthodox' denominations. These are patriarchates of the Eastern Orthodox denomination. For the sake of argument I will not include Oriental Orthodox countries such as Armenia or Ethiopia so as not to complicate things.

Literally, orthodox merely means 'straight teaching'

No. Correct BELIEF would be the most accurate translation.

However, as far as poor vs. rich nations that may have practitioners of either faith, I don't think the religious practices would have any effect on that matter.

Okay, so why do these trends exist? It's just coincidental?

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi LanaPodesta

Gosh, I didn't even know that there were protestant and orthodox countries. Personally, I think the richer nations practice open capitalism vs. some more fettered forms of the ideology. But honestly, I've never a known a nation that proclaimed itself as protestant or orthodox as far as the faith practices of some of its people.

Come on miamited
You really didn't know that some countries are Catholic and some countries are Protestant and within Protestantism there are different ideologies?

I hope your post was tongue in cheeck...
which I think it was.

 

[GodsGrace]

miamited

Sorry miami....
should have kept reading on.
this thread is going nowhere close to where I thought it would...

 

[GodsGrace]

Most countries are NEITHER Protestant or Orthodox. What's your point? I listed those that I did because for some reason people don't seem to know that the USA is Protestant or that Greece is Orthodox.

There is no 'Greek Orthodox' or 'Russian Orthodox' denominations. These are patriarchates of the Eastern Orthodox denomination. For the sake of argument I will not include Oriental Orthodox countries such as Armenia or Ethiopia so as not to complicate things.

No. Correct BELIEF would be the most accurate translation.

Okay, so why do these trends exist? It's just coincidental?

Hi Lana
Can't go through the entire post...but I fail to see your point.

If you're saying that Orthodox nations are safer, then you're correct.
Why?
Because they're stricter and keep more to the moral values taught in the Orthodox faith
and it's much more respected in these Orthodox countries.
A trip to the former Yugoslavia will confirm this.
In the Orthodox regions there is much more a feeling of safety because they are safer.
I'm thinking of Dubvronik right now and Croatia in general.
I'd have to say the same for Greece.

Why do you believe this is so?
I mean, why are the Orthodox so much more serious about their faith?
Why do you think Protestant countries are falling behind in this?