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T
thessalonian
Guest
Heidi said:gingercat said:
Thanks, gingercat! At least there are a some people here who know we should stick only to the bible. God bless you.
Ah, some of that good old Christian unity over the Bible Heidi is talking about. :smt057 :smt073 . Perhaps you and ginger would like to have a discussion on works (i.e. fruit) and see how long you stay united. :roll: You two are like water and oil on that issue.
Methinks it is not the Bible that you have in common but the enemy you both strive against.
God Bless
G
gingercat
Guest
Thess,
As long as we are basing the Bible, we will get along even though we don't agree on everything. I don't believe we should base our faith and practice of Christianity in particular theology or denomination or whatever.
BTW, Catholic is just another denomination. It is just huge one.
Catholics are super good at keeping the secrets and training their people stay in their organization, and Protestants are learning from them and becoming just like them.
As long as we are basing the Bible, we will get along even though we don't agree on everything. I don't believe we should base our faith and practice of Christianity in particular theology or denomination or whatever.
BTW, Catholic is just another denomination. It is just huge one.
Catholics are super good at keeping the secrets and training their people stay in their organization, and Protestants are learning from them and becoming just like them.
T
thessalonian
Guest
gingercat said:
Heidi believes in faith alone. You believe in faith + works. I don't think she will be as receptive to your doctrine as you think she will be. I think it will be a breaker for her as it has for many in the faith alone gang on this board. We'll see when she comes back. By the way, my belief would be closer to yours in this regard. :smt056 Though not exactly like it.
Actually no, it's not. But I'll allow you to have your opinion.
Secrets? What secrets would those be? :smt102 They are so secret I guess nobody told us Catholics on this board about them. :smt101
ed!: You must know what they are so fill us in. From what I see Catholicism is far more open than any other Christian religion. Our views are laid bare in our Catechism and Church documents that are readily available online for all to read if they like. You need to support your contention or you are simply bearing false witness. That's a fruit and not a good one. :o Blessings
B
belovedwolfofgod
Guest
Secrets? Why didnt anyone tell me? Im a Catholic! I shoulda got to know them when I got Confirmed! :evil:
T
thessalonian
Guest
Ya know, I think Heidi is kinda big on OSAS or Eternal Security and you have badmouthed the doctrine quite a bit. My guess is you aren't as united as you think. But I could be wrong. The fruits of you two may not be division. Maybe these things are no big deal to heidi but from what I've seen she defends them pretty vigorously. I'm guessings there might be a falling out soon. :smt021 :smt014 By the way once again I think your view and mine would be much closer on this issue than yours and hers. 8-) :multi:
Now then, one of you or both is either following a tradition of man, has come up with their own false teaching that matches many other false teachers, has a confused holy spirit. The last one is kinda out of the question I think. Once again could be both of you. We've got two people patting eachother on the back but the Holy Spirit is allegedly giving them both different answers on at least two issues. The Holy Spirit we know cannot be the author of such things, i.e. division, error, so the fruits are clearly not of God here.
Now then, one of you or both is either following a tradition of man, has come up with their own false teaching that matches many other false teachers, has a confused holy spirit. The last one is kinda out of the question I think. Once again could be both of you. We've got two people patting eachother on the back but the Holy Spirit is allegedly giving them both different answers on at least two issues. The Holy Spirit we know cannot be the author of such things, i.e. division, error, so the fruits are clearly not of God here.
T
thessalonian
Guest
dup
N
Nocturnal_Principal_X
Guest
Just want to remind people to stay on topic. Also I was wondering how this conversation is edifying God, and other people of the body of Christ. It is no secret I disagree with Catholic beliefs however not once, to my knowledge, have I made a claim about their beliefs that is based on assumption. Now I say this with all humility and love I believe Heidi does that to some extent.
I would suggest that topics about Catholicism and Protestantism should be about learning about each other. I understand there is a time to disagree or even argue about beliefs but frankly all I see going on this website is demeaning and sinful arguing, from both sides (Catholic or Protestant).
Now this is just a request but could both, Catholics and Protestants, try to start topics that merely ask questions and try to give answers. It would be nice to see a surplus of topics devoted to just learning. The debates can continue but I image it would benefit all of use better if we also took the time to just listen and learn.
I would suggest that topics about Catholicism and Protestantism should be about learning about each other. I understand there is a time to disagree or even argue about beliefs but frankly all I see going on this website is demeaning and sinful arguing, from both sides (Catholic or Protestant).
Now this is just a request but could both, Catholics and Protestants, try to start topics that merely ask questions and try to give answers. It would be nice to see a surplus of topics devoted to just learning. The debates can continue but I image it would benefit all of use better if we also took the time to just listen and learn.
G
gingercat
Guest
belovedwolfofgod said:
Sorry, All I meant was that they have so many scandelous news and I wonder they even dicuss those things in congregations. It seems that they just dismiss them. I cannot imagine that members just dismiss it as if it is no biggy.
G
gingercat
Guest
Nocturnal_Principal_X said:
Noc,
I have a question for you since you are saying we should learn from each other. Have you changed your ideas because of the other denomination or Catholics?
T
thessalonian
Guest
gingercat said:belovedwolfofgod said:
Sorry, All I meant was that they have so many scandelous news and I wonder they even dicuss those things in congregations. It seems that they just dismiss them. I cannot imagine that members just dismiss it as if it is no biggy.
Well let's see. I doudt you have been to a Catholic Church within the last 10 years. Do you visit Catholic websites and message boards? Do you read about what the USCCB says on the matter or what the Pope has done recently regarding homosexuals in the clergy? Have you read the local Catholic paper? If none of the above are true, and I have good reason to believe they are not, then your accusation is merely speculation and you should read NP's post above.
Yes, it is discussed alot. At least where I am at. And yes, I do pay attention to what the USCCB and Popes have done and said.
Blessings
T
thessalonian
Guest
I don't think his post is really about changing views so much as about understanding the other view and not misreprenting (The Bible calls it bearing false witness for those keeping track on their scorecard) and slandering another persons beliefs, twisting them so that in the debate you can gain unfair advantage based on false premise. That I think is what his post, which I give kudos for, is about. It's about honest and fair discussion with more respect for the human dignity of a person of which I am certainly guilty of not showing enough of at times, and assuming that they came by their views honestly and know what they believe better than you. Now if people are afraid of such an enviroment why? Do their views not stand up to an honest evaluation at face value of the other persons views and scripture? NP please correct me if you perception is wrong.
G
gingercat
Guest
I don't know thess, Those kind of news just make me sick to my stomach and I cannot imagine how you tolerate by staying with them. As long as you are in their organization, you are part of sin.
T
thessalonian
Guest
gingercat said:
Is that what you think? Do you think that all the employees of enron should be in jail? Should those in the family of Charles manson have been given life in prison? Your children are guilty of your sins?
Should people have quite the Jewish religion because men were having sex with virgins in the doorway of the tent of the meeting, or because Jewish leaders sacrified idols. Paul himself said "the good that I would do I do not, while the EVIL that I would not do I do". So should everyone have not listened to him? Sorry, your post doesn't hold water. You don't understand the Church and you don't understand sin.
Yes of course it is difficult. But my faith does not depend on the men in the Church, contrary to popular belief. It depends on the foundation of the Church.
T
thessalonian
Guest
gingercat said:
Is that what you think? Do you think that all the employees of enron should be in jail? Should those in the family of Charles manson have been given life in prison? Your children are guilty of your sins?
Should people have quite the Jewish religion because men were having sex with virgins in the doorway of the tent of the meeting, or because Jewish leaders sacrified idols. Paul himself said "the good that I would do I do not, while the EVIL that I would not do I do". So should everyone have not listened to him? Sorry, your post doesn't hold water. You don't understand the Church and you don't understand sin.
Yes of course it is difficult. But my faith does not depend on the men in the Church, contrary to popular belief. It depends on the foundation of the Church.
T
thessalonian
Guest
gingercat said:
Another factor I should mention is that it seems on these message boards Protestants see this as an unforgivable sin. As horrible as this sin is, I do not believe it is outside the bounds of God's grace and mercy. It is not beyond mercy and it is not beyond the power of God's grace for a man to overcome. Repentence is for all who will acknowledge their sin and the only sin that cannot be forgiven according to scripture is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I am quite certain many of them have repented. This doesn't make it all better as they have caused great damage to the lives of many. But it does allow the power of Christ to heal both the perpetrater who is wounded by his sin and the one he has sinned against.
G
gingercat
Guest
Thess,
Catholic priests infamous behavior never seems to change. That is your fruit. I don't know what you are talking about fruit is. It seems Catholics are covering up their behavior by their charitable works. God says He wants our obedience, not our sacrifice.
Thess, are you priest?
Catholic priests infamous behavior never seems to change. That is your fruit. I don't know what you are talking about fruit is. It seems Catholics are covering up their behavior by their charitable works. God says He wants our obedience, not our sacrifice.
Thess, are you priest?
T
thessalonian
Guest
gingercat said:
What are you charing me of here dear? What am I covering up? Let's be straight up with this. Quit beating around the bush. Do you thinik all priests have committed these crimes? You seem to be broad brushing all Catholics and priests and accusing us all. I hope that is not what you are doing. If it is, you had better stop.
G
gingercat
Guest
Thess,
The Bible tell us to look for the fruit. It seems that you have been saying Catholics are producing fruit. Reputation is one of the biggest fruit of Christianity. Why don't you want to talk about it?
I know you have been accusing many of us that we are not producing fruit. Let's talk about catholics fruit.
BTW, are you priest?
The Bible tell us to look for the fruit. It seems that you have been saying Catholics are producing fruit. Reputation is one of the biggest fruit of Christianity. Why don't you want to talk about it?
I know you have been accusing many of us that we are not producing fruit. Let's talk about catholics fruit.
BTW, are you priest?