crossnote
Member
The operative word is 'made', not 'defined'.
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
(Pro 16:4)
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Proverbs 16:4
- Thread starter crossnote
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The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
(Pro 16:4)
journeyman
Member
Nothing is made without first being defined. In fact, defining people makes them what they are.
crossnote
Member
Here are various translations of 16:4, I can't seem to find "The Lord has 'defined' everything etc., although I believe that to be true, I just don't see it in 16:4...
(AMP) The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked [according to their role] for the day of evil.
(Cepher) Yahuah has made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
(CSB) The LORD has prepared everything for his purpose—even the wicked for the day of disaster.
(ESV) The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.
(ESV+) R16The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even R17the wicked for the day of trouble.
(Geneva) The Lord hath made all things for his owne sake: yea, euen the wicked for the day of euill.
(HCSB) The LORD has prepared everything for His purpose— even the wicked for the day of disaster.
(Hebrew OT+) כלH3605 פעלH6466 יהוהH3068 למענהוH4617 וגםH1571 רשׁעH7563 ליוםH3117 רעה׃H7451
(KJV) The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
(KJV+) The LORDH3068 hath madeH6466 allH3605 things for himself:H4617 yea, evenH1571 the wickedH7563 for the dayH3117 of evil.H7451
(LITV) Jehovah has made all for His purpose, yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
(MKJV) Jehovah has made all for His purpose; yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
(NAS95) The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.
(NAS95+) The LORDH3068 R1has madeH6466 everythingH3605 for N1its own purposeH4617, EvenH1571 the R2wickedH7563 for the dayH3117 of evilH7463a.
(NASB) The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.
(NASB+) The LORDH3068 R1has madeH6466 everythingH3605 for N1its own purposeH4617, EvenH1571 the R2wickedH7563 for the dayH3117 of evilH7463a.
(NET) The LORD has worked everything for his own ends – even the wicked for the day of disaster.
(NET+) The LORDH3068 has N13workedH6466 everythingH3605 for his own N14endsH4617 – evenH1571 the wickedH7563 for the dayH3117 of N15disasterH7451.
(NKJV) The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.
(TLV) Adonai works everything out for his own purpose—even the wicked for a day of disaster.
(TS2009) יהוה has made all for His purpose, And also the wrong for the day of evil.
(LSV) YHWH has worked all things for Himself, || And also the wicked—for a day of evil.
The TLV and LSV may be closest to your point, but all others say 'made'.
journeyman
Member
I see what you're saying, but God chastens sinners for reason,
Whoever remains stiff-necked after many rebukes will suddenly be destroyed—without remedy. Pro.29:1
Correcting people who can't be corrected is senseless.
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. (Pro 16:4 KJV)
This proverb means that God has an end, object, or purpose for everything. There is a result for every cause, a reward or punishment for every act. He has ordained a day of trouble or evil for the wicked, just as He has prepared heaven for those who love Him. "Everything the Lord has made has its destiny, and the destiny of the wicked man is destruction"
Source: The Believers Bible Commentary.
Just to add: the path we take, wherever it leads, is our choice, and ours alone.
I think the ISV is the clearest:
The LORD made everything answerable to him, including the wicked at the time of trouble. (Pro 16:4 ISV)
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crossnote
Member
ok, sorry, I didn't realize you were pointing in the way of God chastising us sinners, (those whom He loves). Heb 12:7-11
crossnote
Member
Unless you are a king...
The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.
(Pro 21:1)
an Israelite...
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
(Rom 11:25)
or Pharoah...
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
(Rom 9:17)
journeyman
Member
What other way is there to point?
crossnote
Member
We can point to the fact that with God it is possible to correct the hardest heart, by regenerating it.
The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will. (Pro 21:1 KJV)
If the king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, who do you think is in control?
.
crossnote
Member
The Lord God, not a temporal king. Who do you think is in control, our ‘free will’?
As one commentator said..
”Though kings seem to have all things at commandment, they are not able to bring their own purposes to pass unless God has appointed: much less are the inferiors able.”
journeyman
Member
Yes and listening to the people God sends is the beginning of regeneration,
they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. Mt.12:41
You just said it when you said, "our" free will.
It is ours to do as we like.
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Were they forced to repent? Did someone hold a knife to their throat, or did they repent of their own free will because they wanted to?
They need to come to Jesus first, of their own free will, and lay their life on the altar for God.
journeyman
Member
They repented because they were threatened with destruction if they didn't repent. The same passage says the Queen of Sheba believed because she was amazed by Solomons' wisdom, but the Ninevites,
others save with fear Jde.1:23
Of course, all people repent because ot reasons.
There you are. People repent for all sorts of reasons. The exercise of free will. They could have exercised their free will and chosen to fight.
It's not asking the question it is how it is asked and why it was asked.
Sounds like you are mocking anything from IVP and then asking if it was woke simply because it was about race.
Here is how asking a question is mocking. I was trying to teach a class one time on the book of Hebrews. You know how it starts out:
Heb 1:4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”?
Heb 1:6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God's angels worship him.”
Heb 1:7 Of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire.”
Right at the beginning he mentions angels 4 times. This 80 year old lady who has read the Bible every day says: "Why are we talking about angels." I don't care about angels, they are not going to judge us."
I said, yes, "we are going to judge them."
Here is the mocking part:
She says "where is that in the Bible?" I could tell by the look on her face and the way she said it, she meant "that isn't in the Bible, I dare you to show me where it is."
1Co 6:3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!
That is how just asking a question can be mocking.
journeyman
Member
Right, like Peter cutting off someones ear, until he was converted.
crossnote
Member
That question containing 'our free will' was in a preemptive mode, anticipating your position.
Of course our wills are free to do as we like. Problem is, apart from regeneration our wills follow sin, the flesh and satan, being a slave to sin.
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: (Eph 2:2)