So do you think that God punishes us? Or does He allow us to have consequences of our actions?
(If we had all consequences we would be dead)
Small but important difference between the two concepts.
If God actively punishes us for bad things then the reverse must also be true. So we must be rewarded for the good things we do.
Now maybe since we can't earn grace, blessing or punishments there is something else at work here.
What do you think that might be?
All believers are planted in flesh. The flesh is contrary to the Spirit, and vice versa.
This present construct places us in constant jeopardy, flesh wise, as God is always against the workings of the flesh.
Jesus showed us this diametric here:
John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
again here:
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth;
the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
I have examined these subjects over the course of my believing lifetime, trying to understand the adverse side of God, having "experienced" what I perceived as Job experiences, where God curses, and Job was clueless about why God curses. Believers can say what they want about God's curses, but to me, they are real, present and far from being "pleasant" as shown here:
Hebrews 12:
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons;
for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But
if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
This chastisement is to place us in "subjection" to Him, because He DOES have the power to make our flesh quite entirely miserable. I do not consider this a laughing matter, but a terrifying matter that brings a very certain deep respect unto God into our hearts. As a father myself, there was nothing that irritated me more than my ignorant little brats sassing me. I proved to them many times that I had the very real "power" to make their little ignorant lives very difficult in order to correct their bratty sassiness. Similar principle, multiplied by infinity with the Power of God. So, yes, it's real. And it is quite terrifying. And not in some abstract way, but a known terror. Paul speaks of this known terror, here:
2 Corinthians 5:11
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
These are not pleasant matters, as shown again, in Hebrews 12:
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11
Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
I have never spoken to anyone of the particulars of my chastisement, other than to my wife, because it seems to me as grievous cursing. The details are irrelevant. And this is particular to the individual. It's a very difficult thing to understand. I have spent just as much time, if not moreso, sitting in the dust, reasoning with God over these matters as Job did, though the particulars of my chastisement were not "as grievous" as what Job experienced, but closely related. It is a horror.
But this has also led to a much deeper understanding about the Ways of God in Christ. As a practical example, for quite some time now I have known that it is quite entirely pointless to try to justify my entirety before Him. How does this flavor my sights? I see that there is no justification available for the flesh, PERIOD. It can not be done. Trust me,
I have tried with ALL my might and power to justify my flesh. It is impossible. This too was exclaimed by Paul here:
Romans 8:8
So then they that are in
the flesh cannot please God.
This is no uncertain fact! And believers can make any claims they please, we have the contrariness of the flesh, always, to deal with. OSAS believers like to think their entirety is all OKEY DOKEY with God in Christ. It isn't, regardless of their OSAS claims. On the other side, those who believe you can lose your salvation also try, valiantly so, to justify their own flesh. This also can NOT be done, period.
Both parties are wasting their breath trying to justify their entirety.
Romans 3:20
Therefore
by the
deeds of the law
there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
And I don't care what deed that is. Baptism as a "law", stating "you must or else" which is the essence of a law, which is "command" and "punishment" for disobedience, is still a law. And this will not justify the flesh either. And we can lump in any "law" a person pleases.
There shall be no flesh justified, period.
All these believers who try to justify their flesh by deeds, with an "or else" on the other side of the equations are wasting their breath.
The flesh is bound for death no matter what the deeds.
Now, all of this has led me into an intimate, long term scriptural study of this matter of the flesh, as to WHY these things are so. If any man or woman wants to be honest with and before God in Christ, then they will have to sit down and reason with the scriptures to find understandings. In any case none will find their flesh justified by any stretch. They will find out the reasonings of God underneath their own sorry hides.
Every believer who is still ruled by their flesh,
will openly REJECT God in Christ's rulings in these matters. The person who will go to their home, justified, is the person who confronts the fact that they are sinners, head first.
The flesh will deceive every last person in this regards, because that is what it does.
We all are bound with our own personal adversary. That adversary is "in the flesh." And will NOT show it's ugly head, til a person bows before God in Christ, IN TRUTH. Til then, all who come before Him, come like this:
John 10:8
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
The sheep who does not hear that the thief and robber is in their own heart, does not and can not hear. And thusly, can NOT please God, because they have not yet dominated their own flesh. Every last believer will but but but this subject to their end, as if they do not have flesh to contend with. They are deceived.
