Putting on the Mind of Christ - (Which stage most applies to you now?)

[Comprehender]

Jim Marion wrote a book called "Putting on the Mind of Christ." In it he explains spiritual stages.
There are spiritual levels of thinking & sensing that one generally transcends in somewhat of an order, although they can also be integral... (I'm most familiar with 1 - 7).

1. The Archaic Consciousness of Infants (extreme codependency)
2. The Magical Consciousness of Children (Egocentric/self-centered)
3. Mythic Consciousness - Pre-Adolescence (Conformist, rule abider, parents are considered perfect/godlike... religious wars are based on this thinking)
4. Rational Consciousness (most adults are at this level - reason things out, but is often only considering one possible line of reason)
5. Vision-Logic Consciousness (Considers multiple possible lines of reason)
6. Psychic Consciousness (Sensing a spiritual energy of self and others, & at times a deeper understanding of past, present & future, by reading energy)

7. Dark Night of the Senses (5 senses no longer are enough, a higher sense is more the focus)<O:p
8. Subtle Consciousness (Discovering more spiritual guidance)
9. The Dark Night of the Soul (realizing the hidden/dark parts - bringing subconscious to awareness in a loving way)
10. Resurrection from the Dark Night (Realizing we are more than the fears/shame we had previously tried to keep dark, now that it all is brought to light, we feel light)
11. Christ Consciousness - The Causal Level (True Christian love, having confronted the humanity in self, one finds compassion for the humanity in all)
12. Nondual Consciousness - Ascension into the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

</st1:PlaceType>Kingdom of <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Heaven (</st1:PlaceName>one with God - so that thoughts, feelings & actions are one with God & better flow with higher/spiritual purpose)<O:p</O:p

Which stage do you think most applies to you in your life currently?
What do you think about these spiritual stages of development?

 

[farouk]

I would want to get a Biblical view of the mind and spirit, before taking on board all those psychological categories, actually. I don't deny their validity, necessarily, but I would go to the Word, to the Psalms, etc., first.

 

[handy]

Jim Marion is a false prophet. I wouldn't be open to anything he has to say.


How do I know? Well, I'm no Bible scholar but I have read the Bible for quite a few years and I know the "high points" as it were... I also know that there are basic facts about us.

We are sinners.

We are in need of a Savior.

Our Savior is Jesus, Who is the only begotten Son of God.

What does Jim Marion say?

Here is a quote from his book, "Death of the Mythic God":

[FONT=MS Sans Serif,verdana,arial,helv][SIZE=-1]What is true of a person with Christ Consciousness is also true of everybody else--except that everybody else doesn't realize who they are. We think we need to be saved. We don't. We are already sons and daughters of God in exactly the same sense that Jesus was--except that he knew who he was and we don't know who we are. When one realizes the Christ consciousness and "sees" one's union with God, then one sees this truth as clearly as one hears a ringing bell. It becomes obvious. One sees that one is freed from sin or "saved" (and has always been so). One sees one was never under sin's dominion in the first place. May we all come to that wondrous realization, for that is the truth about which the scripture is speaking in saying that the truth will forever set us free.

[/SIZE][/FONT]It is clear that Jim Marion is preaching a different gospel.

 

[Kidron]

Jim Marion wrote a book called "Putting on the Mind of Christ." In it he explains spiritual stages.
There are spiritual levels of thinking & sensing that one generally transcends in somewhat of an order, although they can also be integral... (I'm most familiar with 1 - 7).

1. The Archaic Consciousness of Infants (extreme codependency)
2. The Magical Consciousness of Children (Egocentric/self-centered)
3. Mythic Consciousness - Pre-Adolescence (Conformist, rule abider, parents are considered perfect/godlike... religious wars are based on this thinking)
4. Rational Consciousness (most adults are at this level - reason things out, but is often only considering one possible line of reason)
5. Vision-Logic Consciousness (Considers multiple possible lines of reason)
6. Psychic Consciousness (Sensing a spiritual energy of self and others, & at times a deeper understanding of past, present & future, by reading energy)

7. Dark Night of the Senses (5 senses no longer are enough, a higher sense is more the focus)<O:p
8. Subtle Consciousness (Discovering more spiritual guidance)
9. The Dark Night of the Soul (realizing the hidden/dark parts - bringing subconscious to awareness in a loving way)
10. Resurrection from the Dark Night (Realizing we are more than the fears/shame we had previously tried to keep dark, now that it all is brought to light, we feel light)
11. Christ Consciousness - The Causal Level (True Christian love, having confronted the humanity in self, one finds compassion for the humanity in all)
12. Nondual Consciousness - Ascension into the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

</st1:PlaceType>Kingdom of <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Heaven (</st1:PlaceName>one with God - so that thoughts, feelings & actions are one with God & better flow with higher/spiritual purpose)<O:p</O:p

Which stage do you think most applies to you in your life currently?
What do you think about these spiritual stages of development?

where is the mental consciousness of "sin" and the solution for it in all this Buddhist/Christian type spiritual nomenclature blend you have posted.
Did i miss it?





K

 

[Comprehender]

I would want to get a Biblical view of the mind and spirit, before taking on board all those psychological categories, actually. I don't deny their validity, necessarily, but I would go to the Word, to the Psalms, etc., first.

I would consider the beginning stages more mental, & the latter stages more spiritual. Maybe both are psychological - since psychology means "the study of the soul."

Jesus taught that the kingdom of God is not outside of you, not even in the word, but the kingdom of God is within you." -Luke 17:21
The word (scriptures) and other sources of inspiration are tools, not the end in themselves.

 

[Comprehender]

Jim Marion is a false prophet. I wouldn't be open to anything he has to say.


How do I know? Well, I'm no Bible scholar but I have read the Bible for quite a few years and I know the "high points" as it were... I also know that there are basic facts about us.

We are sinners.

We are in need of a Savior.

Our Savior is Jesus, Who is the only begotten Son of God.

What does Jim Marion say?

Here is a quote from his book, "Death of the Mythic God":

[FONT=MS Sans Serif,verdana,arial,helv][SIZE=-1]What is true of a person with Christ Consciousness is also true of everybody else--except that everybody else doesn't realize who they are. We think we need to be saved. We don't. We are already sons and daughters of God in exactly the same sense that Jesus was--except that he knew who he was and we don't know who we are. When one realizes the Christ consciousness and "sees" one's union with God, then one sees this truth as clearly as one hears a ringing bell. It becomes obvious. One sees that one is freed from sin or "saved" (and has always been so). One sees one was never under sin's dominion in the first place. May we all come to that wondrous realization, for that is the truth about which the scripture is speaking in saying that the truth will forever set us free. [/SIZE][/FONT]

It is clear that Jim Marion is preaching a different gospel.

Handy,
Thanks for this important reminder to never put up any imperfect person upon a pedestal.
We are commanded to not have any other God before God.
God is love.
Love is hoping & striving for what is best, through trial & error.
Love is an eternal principle that never fails - but all else will fail, so we should only trust in God/Love.

I don't agree with everything Jim Marion wrote.
IE: He has same-sex preferences (I think he was sexually abused by Catholic priests) & tries to make homosexuality appear to be of God. I agree that when someone loves another (whether of the same sex or not) - that love is of God, but how that love is expressed may or may not be. Love should not harm others, but homosexual preferences show to harm.

I also disagree with him regarding his take on infants. He adopts the Catholic (& some Reincarnation) beliefs that infants (or some of them) are guilty at birth. I don't. Yes, maybe reincarnation is a fact, but even if a baby had "bad karma" it is not for us to judge, but to love, no matter what.

So, I don't accept all he writes, but I do love & appreciate many beautiful truths he's helped me realize, to gain a deeper understanding of Christ's teachings. Most of what I'd learned before (orthodox & mormon Christianity) only scratched the surface.

 

[Comprehender]

where is the mental consciousness of "sin" and the solution for it in all this Buddhist/Christian type spiritual nomenclature blend you have posted.
Did i miss it?

K

Yeah, it's there - in a much deeper way, I just didn't expand on it.
I tried to keep it simple (in the OP).

Most of my life I believed sin to be "bad actions" that we know are wrong.
Now I realize that the root of sin is thought, which then is followed by e-motion & action.
"As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he."
Thought and related emotion have energy in themselves!
Sin is not always an external phenomena, but sometimes it is a sin against ourselves, in not loving ourselves.

Correcting one's thinking is repentance, which is a more true correction of emotion and behavior.
So all of the stages build on each other - correcting thoughts, to feel & behave better.

I'd say the most "repentant" stage is the dark night of the soul, which I'm still learning about. For many, this takes a life-time. It's dealing with the dark or sub-conscious fears, shames, beliefs. Our subconsious thoughts dictate most of what we think, feel, say & do. They can be like a ignored & undisciplined puppy, that wreaks havok, destroying everything. But a little attention, love & discipline can do wonders!

 

[Christ_empowered]

I don't mean to sound harsh, but psychology and Christianity don't mix well. Its one thing to go to a counselor if your life is in shreds or you have, I don't know...a psychotic disorder...but its another to try to use psycho-insight to transform The Good News into a sort of mystical form of self-help.

I'm still getting over years of psychiatry and psychology. I'm just now learning what it means to be truly Christian, 3 years into my journey. Please don't make the same mistakes I did and turn to psychobabblers--no matter how seemingly profound they may be--for salvation.

Christianity is fairly straightforward. I'd personally advise that you ignore those who try to make it into something complicated and mystical, a sort of inner-journey towards "healing" or whatever.

 

[Comprehender]

Hi ChristEmpowered,
I think I understand what you mean.
We shouldn't worship anything that is incomplete & fallible.
Also, some of the mystical theories are taken to the expreme & values are disregarded.

I think it's possible & ideal to expand & grow spiritually while maintaining good values (choosing good decisions).
It seems like many of us have a hard time with mixing anything.
Yet, life & God & scripture teachings are paradoxical...
"He that findeth his life (pride) shall lose it (life): and he that loseth his life(pride) shall find it (life)."
"Be actively engaged in a good cause"... & "Be still and know that I am God."
"Be as a child, humble submissive"... &... "Put off childish things."

Psychology = study of the soul.
I see it as inseparably connected with spiritiuality. I don't mean the APA or psycholgoical theories - which come & go, but I mean the study of one's soul.
"I AM that I AM" = Know who you are! You are a child of God! With a lot of work, understand why you think & feel as you do, so you can be a better vessel & instrument of God.
"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus." -Philip 2:5

 

[Christ_empowered]

I don't mean to be arugmentative--to each their own, honestly--but I don't personally believe that digging deep into your self helps you reach God.

 

[Comprehender]

I don't mean to be arugmentative--to each their own, honestly--but I don't personally believe that digging deep into your self helps you reach God.

Christempowered,
How else do you feel God, except within you?
Jesus taught, "The kingdom of God is within you." - Luke 17:21

I'm sure you, like me & everyone, has certain buttons, or pet peves, that really tick you off, right?
Like, someone will say or do something seemingly insignificant, but it really bugs you! Often we have no idea why we get so upset about things that don't bother others. And often, those upset feelings get in the way of experiencing the spirit and goodness of God.

I don't like the idea of opening a can of worms (so to speak) - like in therapy - rehashing horrific events in our lives. My mom did this. Infact, her therapist had her hypnotized right in front of me as a child... My mom had been sexually abused & started screaming like a little kid. It was traumatic for me, just watching her be hypnotized & receive "so called therapy."

But I do believe that ignor-ance is the root of evil, including the evil aspects in all of us. When we ignore WHY something bothers us, it will continue bothering us until we address it. Also, when we search our souls, we'll realize that the humanity is part of us, as it is part of every other person, & we will be less condemning & more compassionate with ourselves & others. Christ did this - he descended below all, so he could lift all up. There is nobody he didn't understand & love. If we want to be Christlike, we need to get the courage to explore the incredible kingdom of God within us.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I don't mean to be arugmentative--to each their own, honestly--but I don't personally believe that digging deep into your self helps you reach God.

Me too. I think you have to reach outside of yourself to reach God.
The more we see about ourselves and learn what we really are, the more we should long for the life to come knowing that the futility and frustration and failure of this human existence ends mercifully and is remembered no more. That is the hope of the Christian who has found refuge in Christ.

"31 Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices." (Ezekiel 36:31 NIV1984)

"25 The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life." (John 12:25 NIV1984)

 

[Comprehender]

Me too. I think you have to reach outside of yourself to reach God.
The more we see about ourselves and learn what we really are, the more we should long for the life to come knowing that the futility and frustration and failure of this human existence ends mercifully and is remembered no more. That is the hope of the Christian who has found refuge in Christ.

"31 Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices." (Ezekiel 36:31 NIV1984)

"25 The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life." (John 12:25 NIV1984)

Jethro,
I agree that part of experiencing God is through reaching outside of ourselves - in loving & caring for others. But if you ain't got, it how can you give it? If I'm clueless about my own feelings regarding challenges, aspirations etc., how can I reach out to others about theirs?

It is a cognitive distortion to postpone happiness until the afterlife.
(Maybe I'll start a new thread about thinking distortions... they're common in the Mormon church, but some also apply in orthodox Christian teachings.)

Great scripture about he who clings to life (pride) will lose life & he who loses his life (pride) will gain life. The only way we can really do this is by knowing & understanding ourselves (I AM that I AM). Even on this forum, you might notice me or others getting offended & emotionally reactive. It's us clinging to our pride, refusing to let it go. How do you let it go? How do you not get upset? By realizing WHY you're getting upset - which is often a cognitive distortion. It's also the childish or carnal nature in us - that wants what we want when we want it (now!)...
Yet, "In your patience, posess ye your souls." -Luke 21:19

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro,
I agree that part of experiencing God is through reaching outside of ourselves - in loving & caring for others. But if you ain't got, it how can you give it? If I'm clueless about my own feelings regarding challenges, aspirations etc., how can I reach out to others about theirs?

The reaching out is the acknowledging that you are not good by nature and that genuine, unconditional goodness must come from somewhere else, outside of you.

It is when we get what we don't have within us, from God, that we can then give it out to others. The reaching out to God for the forgiveness of sins, and falling on his mercy, and then receiving his mercy is what then equips us to then minister that love and mercy and forgiveness to those around us. Jesus said the more you are forgiven, the more you love (Luke 7:47).

It is a cognitive distortion to postpone happiness until the afterlife.

I don't know that I'd call it a 'cognitive distortion', but I'd definitely call it unscriptural. Those who have made peace with God through the forgiveness of sins and the receiving of his mercy are given the abundance of God's Spirit in the fruit of joy, and peace, and contentment...even while we deal with the momentary struggles of our earthly frustrations and injuries. Momentary because they end at death and are very short lived compared to eternity. I'm not minimizing the pain of this life, jut putting into God's point of view.

Great scripture about he who clings to life (pride) will lose life & he who loses his life (pride) will gain life. The only way we can really do this is by knowing & understanding ourselves (I AM that I AM).

What we need to know and understand about ourselves in order to hate our lives and lose it for the sake of the kingdom is how truly unrighteous we are by nature. We don't need to know at what moment in life we get that nature. We just need to know that we have it.

May I point out that Paul's reference to "I am what I am" is regarding what he has been ordained in God to be to the Corinthians as a Christian (not his old, natural self). They challenged his calling and ministry and authority over them. Instead of aplogizing and indulging false humility about the very great place God had placed him at in the body of Christ, a sinner of sinners who was now an Apostle, he just said "by the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Corinthians 15:10 NIV1984).

Even on this forum, you might notice me or others getting offended & emotionally reactive. It's us clinging to our pride, refusing to let it go. How do you let it go? How do you not get upset? By realizing WHY you're getting upset - which is often a cognitive distortion. It's also the childish or carnal nature in us - that wants what we want when we want it (now!)...
Yet, "In your patience, posess ye your souls." -Luke 21:19

Patience with offensive people is a divine trait, not a human one. That's why we need God's Spirit to come into us from outside of us (through the forgiveness of sin) to be what God is by nature, but which we are not.

I'll have to read your other thread to get a better handle on what you mean by 'cognitive distortion'. Wrong thinking is sinful thinking. It's seen in things like jealousy, envy, pride, hatred, evil suspicions, selfish ambition, etc. I think just calling it 'sin' is sufficient.

 

[Aardverk]

This is turning into an unusal thread - we all seem to agree! However.........

I doubt than many psychologists would agree with 'study of the soul' as a definition. Although 'psyche' can indeed mean 'body or soul' the meaning of the word 'psychology' has meant, 'study of the mind' since the term was introduced about 250 years ago. All of the psychologists I know, and I know a lot because I am married to one, would probably describe religion as a psychogenic illness. Christ_Empowered was quite right, Religion & Psychology do not mix.

Also correct is the very good advice to keep clear of the psychobabblers. There are a lot of charlatans in that field who really do more harm than good - like the idiot who hypnotized your mother in front of you. Jim Marion appears (to most of us?) to be mixing up perfectly respectable psychological stidies with mystic mumbo-jumbo. For goodness sake don't fall for it. The two do not mix.

If you really want to study congitive development and motivation, can I suggest that you start by reading Jean Piaget & Abraham Maslow. Better still, undertake formal studies in phychology. I stopped my phychology studies just below degree level but that was ample to show me how much we fool ourselves in our daily lives - and why.

 

[eddif]

We were made in the image of God.
Through the fall of Adam we were cut off from the garden (communication).
Looking around inside our fallen natural self is not going to find God.

If we repent and open the door of our inner man to Jesus, he will come into us. At that point the kingdom starts to be inside us.

Being a tabernacle does not insure the right person is in charge of that tabernacle.

I believe in genetics (made by God); that is a little book that regulates our physical existance. Then I believe in the Bible which is a little book that defines our spiritual development (also inspired by God)

eddif.

 

[Comprehender]

The reaching out is the acknowledging that you are not good by nature and that genuine, unconditional goodness must come from somewhere else, outside of you.

It is when we get what we don't have within us, from God, that we can then give it out to others. The reaching out to God for the forgiveness of sins, and falling on his mercy, and then receiving his mercy is what then equips us to then minister that love and mercy and forgiveness to those around us. Jesus said the more you are forgiven, the more you love (Luke 7:47).

I wonder about this, Jethro.
First, I thought I was good - you know, kids think that.
Then I thought I was bad - because many told me I was.
Then I was told I was a child of God & that I was good.
Then I was told that there was no good or evil - but "thinking makes it so."

But maybe you're right - that GOoDness comes from God - not us.
Maybe like Moses discovered, we're nothing - God is responsible for everything.
I don't know what I think about forgiveness.
I'm so used to my upbringing & I acknowledge the need for metaphors - to resonate & feel the spirit.
But I don't believe God requires us to "earn" forgiveness - we require it of ourselves.
When I've screwed up & feel bad about it, like just yesterday, I found myself praying for forgiveness - but I think it was more for me - so I can "give" myself to go "for"ward.

I don't know that I'd call it a 'cognitive distortion', but I'd definitely call it unscriptural. Those who have made peace with God through the forgiveness of sins and the receiving of his mercy are given the abundance of God's Spirit in the fruit of joy, and peace, and contentment...even while we deal with the momentary struggles of our earthly frustrations and injuries. Momentary because they end at death and are very short lived compared to eternity. I'm not minimizing the pain of this life, jut putting into God's point of view.

I agree that this life is probably tiny compared to eternity.
My friend who had a Near Death Experience had always been so stressed about any mistakes she made, but during her spiritual experience, she realized that it wasn't a big deal. Spirits who loved her & looked after her kindof smiled regarding her freaking out about her mistakes - like a loving mother would smile when her child starts throwing a fit about getting dressed to go have fun. She cares about her child, understands, has compassion & wants the best for her child, but also realizes that her child may be short-sighted & will be happier soon.

What we need to know and understand about ourselves in order to hate our lives and lose it for the sake of the kingdom is how truly unrighteous we are by nature. We don't need to know at what moment in life we get that nature. We just need to know that we have it.

I think if we hate any part of ourselves, it's like trying to fight fire with fire.
Maybe the way to lose our pride (carnal nature) is to be humble & teachable - & to be dedicated to searching for & pursuing the highest GOoD, no matter what.

May I point out that Paul's reference to "I am what I am" is regarding what he has been ordained in God to be to the Corinthians as a Christian (not his old, natural self). They challenged his calling and ministry and authority over them. Instead of aplogizing and indulging false humility about the very great place God had placed him at in the body of Christ, a sinner of sinners who was now an Apostle, he just said "by the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Corinthians 15:10 NIV1984).

Actually, I was referring to Moses' experience in discovering the kingdom of God within... God's name is "I AM THAT I AM." -Exodus 3:14

Patience with offensive people is a divine trait, not a human one. That's why we need God's Spirit to come into us from outside of us (through the forgiveness of sin) to be what God is by nature, but which we are not.

Maybe.

I'll have to read your other thread to get a better handle on what you mean by 'cognitive distortion'. Wrong thinking is sinful thinking. It's seen in things like jealousy, envy, pride, hatred, evil suspicions, selfish ambition, etc. I think just calling it 'sin' is sufficient.

Yeah - except the word, "sin" has so much baggage attached to it.
God created us to sin - it's not a crime.
Making it a crime is a sin - ironically.
The shame we compile causes more thinking that harms us &/or others.
So many paradoxes...

 

[Comprehender]

This is turning into an unusal thread - we all seem to agree!

:biglol

However.........

I doubt than many psychologists would agree with 'study of the soul' as a definition. Although 'psyche' can indeed mean 'body or soul' the meaning of the word 'psychology' has meant, 'study of the mind' since the term was introduced about 250 years ago. All of the psychologists I know, and I know a lot because I am married to one, would probably describe religion as a psychogenic illness. Christ_Empowered was quite right, Religion & Psychology do not mix.

Maybe.
But religion is not the same as spirituality.
Spirit is another way of saying motivating power - or e-motion.

Also correct is the very good advice to keep clear of the psychobabblers. There are a lot of charlatans in that field who really do more harm than good - like the idiot who hypnotized your mother in front of you. Jim Marion appears (to most of us?) to be mixing up perfectly respectable psychological stidies with mystic mumbo-jumbo. For goodness sake don't fall for it. The two do not mix.

It's impossible to find anyone who's perfect - no matter how published they are.
It is hard to find someone who is both intellectual & spiritual.
As someone (I don't remember who) explained, sometimes you have to dirty your hands to get a diamond out of a dumpster.

If you really want to study congitive development and motivation, can I suggest that you start by reading Jean Piaget & Abraham Maslow. Better still, undertake formal studies in phychology. I stopped my phychology studies just below degree level but that was ample to show me how much we fool ourselves in our daily lives - and why.

I majored in Psychology for a while too.
I like Erikson's stages of development. I think "orthodox" psychology is interesting, but not as interesting as when you combine spirituality, as Carl Jung did. That's the heart & soul of everything! Or should I say, the combo of the 2 is the head & heart of everything - & we do need both.

 

[Comprehender]

We were made in the image of God.

Or did we make God into our image?
Who really wrote that "we are made in the image of God" - a person - maybe or maybe not inspired of God when he wrote that.

Through the fall of Adam we were cut off from the garden
(communication).

IMO, the fall of Adam & Eve represents us all falling from awareness of God.
To me, the parables & lessons in the bible are symbolic, not literal.
Maybe that's what you meant by "communication."

Looking around inside our fallen natural self is not going to find God.

Why not?
Didn't God create us?
Didn't Jesus teach that "the kingdom of God is within you"?
Yes, we make mistakes - but God created us to - so we could "live & learn."
If we never look within ourselves, how will we know ourselves, & be able to love others as ourselves?

If we repent and open the door of our inner man to Jesus, he will come into us. At that point the kingdom starts to be inside us.

IMO, Jesus is a beautiful personification of spirituality - much easier to relate to than an abstract concept.
So, in that way, I agree with you.
Yet, in reality, the kingdom of God (light of Christ) is always within us - it's just a question of realizing it.

Being a tabernacle does not insure the right person is in charge of that tabernacle.

Good point.
This is why it's so important to know ourselves, "know the truth & the truth shall set you free." It's like we all were given (by God) the gift/challenge of a little monster (pride, weakness etc.). If we pay attention to it & compassionately train it, then it will be under our control. If we ignore it - than it will rule us. Ignor-ance is what causes most evil & suffering.

I believe in genetics (made by God); that is a little book that regulates our physical existance. Then I believe in the Bible which is a little book that defines our spiritual development (also inspired by God)
eddif.

Me too!
And what's so amazing is how interconnected our bodies & spirits are!
Think about how you feel when you're stressed - tense shoulders, headach.
Think about how you feel when you have a good laugh, or when you feel a lot of love for someone. A friend of mine was bed ridden for a year & when he first got outside, we went for a drive & he had such a deep & profound appreciation of everything that before he took for granted. Our spirits affect our physiology & our physiology affects our spirituality.

 

[Aardverk]

It's impossible to find anyone who's perfect - no matter how published they are.

As indeed it is impossible to find any perfect publication.

It is hard to find someone who is both intellectual & spiritual.

For it is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." (1 Corinthians 1:19 NIV)​

.......... sometimes you have to dirty your hands to get a diamond out of a dumpster.

That's great advice. Keep on getting your hands dirty, keep on thinking and you will at least be rewarded with small gems. 'Wrong thinking' is not 'sinful thinking' as someone else said. Thinking is what that big brain is for. Sometimes you will get it wrong but I get the distinct impression that most of the time you will get it right Comprehender. Do let me know if you find the diamond.