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Alabaster
Guest
Human beings are spirits in bodies. Spirits are immortal. When the body dies, the spirit lives on...either in Heaven (eternal life, reward) or in hellfire (eternal death, condemnation).
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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Question about Hell
- Thread starter l'Chante
- Start date
Nathan
Member
1Ti 6:16 (God)...who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.
Look the word up. "alone" means..."alone".
Seriously. Where does it state that spirits are immortal?
Nathan
Member
1Cr 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
1Cr 15:54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
1Cr 15:54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
Nathan
Member
Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
destroy - apollymi
1) to destroy
a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin
b) render useless
c) to kill
d) to declare that one must be put to death
e) metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell
f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed
2) to destroy
a) to lose
destroy - apollymi
1) to destroy
a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin
b) render useless
c) to kill
d) to declare that one must be put to death
e) metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell
f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed
2) to destroy
a) to lose
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Alabaster
Guest
1Ti 6:16 (God)...who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.
Look the word up. "alone" means..."alone".
Seriously. Where does it state that spirits are immortal?
How are the wicked dead raised, if not with a spirit component? How are they to stand before the Almighty God in their flesh without disintegrating? They will stand in glorified flesh, and their spirits together with their bodies will be cast into the Lake of Fire to suffer eternal death. There they will exist without being fully consumed.
God alone can never die, according to 1 Timothy 6:16. The righteous die physically once and receive eternal life as reward. The wicked die not only once but twice, and the last time is eternal death and continual destruction.
Revelation 14:11 NLT
The smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever, and they will have no relief day or night, for they have worshiped the beast and his statue and have accepted the mark of his name.”
Nathan
Member
I tried for a LONG time to refute it. But the more I have dug to refute it, the more I find that its true.
Of course, it brings up a lot of questions with it. But most things like this do.
TRUTH over TRADITION
Member
Is that reallyt how the Bible describes man Alabaster? Let's look at the scriptural description of man.
Gen 3:19
By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."
Are spirits immortal? What in scripture would lead one to such a conclusion? We can reasonably conclude that the satan would qualify as a spirit being and scripture shows us that he is not immortal for it speaks of his destruction in Hebrews 2:14.
“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and
blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil.â€
blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil.â€
Remember that the Lord's Word tell us that GOD ALONE has immortality. That means that souls and spirits beings can die since they do not possess immortality.
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Alabaster
Guest
I disagree with that. The verse says that God alone can not die. We all die--even Jesus died. Our spirits don't. It is man that God breathed that breath of LIFE into. We are not like animals. We are eternal spirits which have a destiny---Jesus came to establish Heaven as one of them!
Nathan
Member
Right, the non-immortality of humans does bring up questions like this. The wicked dead will be raised, in the record book of deeds they have done. This is what I believe, although I honestly have not spent a great deal of time on it.
I have not seen where they are to "stand before the Almighty God in their flesh". You will have to point me to that reference.
And I am not sure where we get the idea that they will not be "fully consumed".
Your right, that is what 1Timothy states, that God cannot die. But it also states with it that no one else has that same ability. Which automatically means that the opposite is true, and that EVERYONE else can in fact die, that is, be destroyed.
TRUTH over TRADITION
Member
+1, I spent decades proclaiming turn or burn and speaking against those who deny it only to realize that it was I who was in error all along.
Nathan
Member
Where do you find that our spirit cannot die, or rather, be destroyed?
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Alabaster
Guest
The Bible tells us that without Jesus, our spirits will suffer hellfire, destruction, perishing, torment---forever.
Nathan
Member
:yes Right. One guy I have talked to before said, "well then, I guess it just does not matter if a person can be totally destroyed". As in, if we teach this truth that people will just go wild and do whatever not caring about it because in the end they will be destroyed.
Which is one reason I think people preach the opposite, because then it instills fear into the lives of people and automatically makes them want to "do something" in order to not have to suffer forever and ever.
For me, the truth was more freedom than anything. And it brought a great sense of awe to contemplate the non-existence of myself.
Nathan
Member
No, it states that hell will be "forever". Where does it state that "we" go on forever?
TRUTH over TRADITION
Member
It would seem that all who are raised are initially raised in physical bodies. John 5:28-29 speaks of a single resurrection where some will be be raised to be rewarded with life while others will be raised to face a judgment.
‘Don’t be surprised at this, because the hour is coming when everyone in the tombs will hear his voice and come out; those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced what is foul to a resurrection of judgment.
If we consider the Greek root of our word resurrection, we can see that the concept was not a spiritual event but rather a causing to 'stand again' of that which was formerly dead. Most have the image of people being resurrected to the heavenly realm as opposed to simply being 'reanimated' here on the earth where rewards and punishments will then be dolled out.
Nathan
Member
One good question to ask is if Christ died Spiritually? We know without a doubt that He did physically, but did He Spiritually? Or did the Spirit leave Him, which is why He cried;
Mar 15:34 ..."Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
I dunno. I have never really contemplated it. But Peter seems to indicate that when He died, and His flesh was in the tomb, He went and preached to the "spirits in prison".
1Pe 3:18-20 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
Mar 15:34 ..."Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
I dunno. I have never really contemplated it. But Peter seems to indicate that when He died, and His flesh was in the tomb, He went and preached to the "spirits in prison".
1Pe 3:18-20 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
TRUTH over TRADITION
Member
Exactly nathan, the truth is empowering and shows us how much the great God of Heaven loves us.
It's kind of sad that some people believe that fear is a better motivator than love. Whatever happenned to loving God because he first loved us? And what happenned to the concept of doing right because it is the right thing to do as opposed to doing right to avoid a punishment? We need to realize that it is LOVE, not fear that conquers all.
TRUTH over TRADITION
Member
This is such an interesting issue and as you said a good question. The 1st Peter text is one that is rather difficult to understand for me at this point. It's so interesting that I decided to start a thread on just that topic so i wouldn't get this thread to far off topic.
http://www.christianforums.net/f17/spirits-prison-35124/#post525849
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Elijah674
Guest
When God (United Godhead) stated that He has Immortality (not his creation 1 Tim. 1:17 + 1 Tim. 6:16) and in Gen. 3:22 + Gen. 11:7 includes US in the plural who man was made in only the Image of, yet subject to death as God stated in Gen. 2:16-17. It is then that one WILL BELIEVE GOD & not teach that satan told the truth, [IF] they will? It is a free/choice! See Gen. 4:6-7.
Inspiration (invisible God in Their UNITY) has it stated this way: 'And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, [and BREATHED INTO HIS NOSTRILS THE BREATH OF LIFE]; [and MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL].' Gen. 2:7
OK: Was man Immortal? God says that only They have Immortality. And that means the IMMORTALITY has ETERNALLY BEEN, not created! Again, God Jehovah, Holy [Spirit or Holy Ghost] & the Eternal God Christ. (just not the Son as of yet except in the Eternal Plan)
Now: Where was this created man in the Godheads Eternity? Could he see hear or was he living as immortal? And when one dies we are told that our thoughts perish +! (Eccl. 9:4-6) Hardly, huh!
Immortality goes into all ETERNAL Directions! SO: Back to can a 'SOUL DIE'. God DOCUMENTED in the Gen. 2:7th verse that [MAN BECAME] A LIVING SOUL!! That should be enough for Their creation to Believe Them & UNDERSTAND that they have been teaching lies for well past the 120 years of their satan's lies of Gen. 3:4.
Yet, there is much more on down the line of Inspiration. Eze. 18:4 & Eze. 18:20 [DOCUMENTS] that the [SOUL THAT SINNETH IT SHALL DIE]!! (Twice!) And even the brain dead creation of the Godhead are a [LIVING SOUL]. We read in Rev. 16:3 'that every [living soul] died in the sea.' 'All have ONE BREATH; so man [HATH NO PREEMINENCE ABOVE A BEAST]. .. ALL GO INTO ONE PLACE..]' Eccl. 3:19
Sure, TWO RESURRECTIONS! Sure Two JUDGEMENTS! Eccl. 12:13-14 & then Conditional Immortality of still eating of the Tree of Life as seen in Rev. 22:1-2 for the SAVED from there on of Nahum 1:9's FACT! + this fact also of the others from Eternity on in Obadiah 1:16
--Elijah
Inspiration (invisible God in Their UNITY) has it stated this way: 'And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, [and BREATHED INTO HIS NOSTRILS THE BREATH OF LIFE]; [and MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL].' Gen. 2:7
OK: Was man Immortal? God says that only They have Immortality. And that means the IMMORTALITY has ETERNALLY BEEN, not created! Again, God Jehovah, Holy [Spirit or Holy Ghost] & the Eternal God Christ. (just not the Son as of yet except in the Eternal Plan)
Now: Where was this created man in the Godheads Eternity? Could he see hear or was he living as immortal? And when one dies we are told that our thoughts perish +! (Eccl. 9:4-6) Hardly, huh!
Yet, there is much more on down the line of Inspiration. Eze. 18:4 & Eze. 18:20 [DOCUMENTS] that the [SOUL THAT SINNETH IT SHALL DIE]!! (Twice!) And even the brain dead creation of the Godhead are a [LIVING SOUL]. We read in Rev. 16:3 'that every [living soul] died in the sea.' 'All have ONE BREATH; so man [HATH NO PREEMINENCE ABOVE A BEAST]. .. ALL GO INTO ONE PLACE..]' Eccl. 3:19
Sure, TWO RESURRECTIONS! Sure Two JUDGEMENTS! Eccl. 12:13-14 & then Conditional Immortality of still eating of the Tree of Life as seen in Rev. 22:1-2 for the SAVED from there on of Nahum 1:9's FACT! + this fact also of the others from Eternity on in Obadiah 1:16
--Elijah