Question About Holy Communion

[andy pandy]

awwwww Religion AT ITS BEST.. i find no place in scripture where one must be ordained to serve communion ..if you are a leader of the church you should be able to administer the Lord Supper yes deacons can administer ..i know nothing about the lutheran church ..biggest problem in Church today is we have far to many carnal rules but yes i would suggest some type preacher/pastor to feed the flock unless someone is your Church has been called . if anything the Church should be praying and uniting not fussing and dividing ... i dont know a thing about a council chairperson... point Blank this is not a Business to make profit . this is God house and it should be treated as such my suggestion speak up do your Communion service .find you a preacher to fill in till you prayerfully find a pastor i leave you with this scripture seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things shall be added . wait up on the Lord

If one cared to search the scripture where leaders were chosen from amongst the congregation, not brought in from outside, I don't think that it would take much effort to realise that your next leader is already there in the congregation. In fact you will be better served if you chose a body of men as set out in the book of Timothy which sets out clear guidlines for choosing leaders for churches.

 

[andy pandy]

WIP
I was thinking. I attend the church of Christ, and we partake each first day of the week.
We like to point to Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Now, we could say a lot about this passage, but we do see the disciples of Jesus, that is, students and followers of Jesus coming together on the first day of the week to break bread. Additionally, we see Paul preaching to them in this instance.

Acts 2:46-47 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

When we go back, we see these new Christians going to the temple, because that's where you talked about God as was the culture, and then going to their houses to break bread, and give praise to God.

In the churches of Christ, we relate both of these passages to the Lord's Supper, which is both a memorial and a celebration in the new covenant we now live in. (Matthew 26:28 - Jeremiah 31:31)

There are a few of verses between Luke and Acts that we can use for a proper textual exegesis to relate "breaking bread" with Communion, Luke 24:30-35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread. The emphasis going back to verse 31, And their eyes were opened, and they knew him

By way of example, we have concluded that it does not need to be administered by an ordained minister etc. If we go back to the first century, it was a meal shared in fellowship with brothers and sisters in Christ in memory and celebration for what Jesus had done, and is doing for he is currently seated at the right hand of God, and He is reining.

I hope this helps in some way.

Except that to break bread is to have a meal. Not a sip of wine and a piece of bread.

 

[andy pandy]

As long as we understand that there is a hierarchy in the church, that there always has been, and the pastor is the head of the of the church. So they do have a special position because they have a special responsibility, as do all who are elders, and the deacons under them.

Interesting that in the New Testament, a pastor was never appointed to lead a church. It was always in the hands of the apostles, prophets and elders. Pastors are not mentioned once in the verses that refer to leadership.

 

[stovebolts]

Except that to break bread is to have a meal. Not a sip of wine and a piece of bread.

I agree, so there is no except when it comes to what I posted to WIP

Please read my reply to WIP one more time and at the end, I mention that in the first century, it was a meal.

 

[jaybo]

Interesting that in the New Testament, a pastor was never appointed to lead a church. It was always in the hands of the apostles, prophets and elders. Pastors are not mentioned once in the verses that refer to leadership.

Ephesians 4:11-12, "And he himself gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, that is, to build up the body of Christ,"

 

[for_his_glory]

Ephesians 4:11-12, "And he himself gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, that is, to build up the body of Christ,"

jaybo andy pandy is no longer a member here. Just thought I would let you know if you were expecting a reply from him. When you see a bar across someone's name they are either timed banned or permanently banned.

 

[jaybo]

jaybo andy pandy is no longer a member here. Just thought I would let you know if you were expecting a reply from him. When you see a bar across someone's name they are either timed banned or permanently banned.

Okay, thanks. BTW, even after a refresh there is nor bar across his name.

 

[jerry63935]

Does it require an ordained pastor to do this? When I read Scripture, I don't see where it is instructed that this is necessary.

2 answers NO it does not in most cases in church services the ordained authorities serve it.. i dont know anything on the Lutheran in the general baptist they call upon the ordained. saying this if a person is a true blue born again person they can serve my only stipulation in serving and partaking do it in the seriousness of the spirit. you are correct the only thing close is

Acts 6:3-6​

3 Brothers and sisters, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them
4 and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word.”
5 This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism.
6 They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them.

we know Stephen was a deacon i have seen deacons ordained that thought they was rulers not servants . i would rather them not serve.


if you folks are independent serve it w/o a ordained minister ..you can serve it.. when your pastor leaves it is wise to get another minister to help out. how ever one does not have to be ordained to bring a message or serve Holy Communion

 

[jaybo]

2 answers NO it does not in most cases in church services the ordained authorities serve it.. i dont know anything on the Lutheran in the general baptist they call upon the ordained. saying this if a person is a true blue born again person they can serve my only stipulation in serving and partaking do it in the seriousness of the spirit. you are correct the only thing close is

Acts 6:3-6​

3 Brothers and sisters, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them
4 and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word.”
5 This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism.
6 They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them.

we know Stephen was a deacon i have seen deacons ordained that thought they was rulers not servants . i would rather them not serve.


if you folks are independent serve it w/o a ordained minister ..you can serve it.. when your pastor leaves it is wise to get another minister to help out. how ever one does not have to be ordained to bring a message or serve Holy Communion

Regarding the last Passover dinner, Jesus told those present to drink wine and share bread among themselves to remember Him. How this morphed into some special religious ceremony administered by clergy is beyond me. I have shared wine and bread at my home with other Christians to remember Christ and will continue to do so. I believe that is what Jesus intended us to do.

 

[Edward]

Regarding the last Passover dinner, Jesus told those present to drink wine and share bread among themselves to remember Him. How this morphed into some special religious ceremony administered by clergy is beyond me. I have shared wine and bread at my home with other Christians to remember Christ and will continue to do so. I believe that is what Jesus intended us to do.

Doesn't everybody? WOw, I just recently picked up another new bottle of wine cuz mine was getting low, lol. I've done this for quite awile. I found those little church type communion wafers on amazon. I got 1000 of them for $20 almost, delivered. Can't beat that. I seem to go through crackers rather fast and wanted some on the shelf mostly in case I run out of crackers, or if a lot of people were to come over just in case, lol.

That reminds me, I like the unopened bottle of wine on the shelf and I just popped open the new bottle. So no spare anymore!

Napa Valley, BV. 1974. Cabernet (I wish Lol)

 

[Edward]

Hey I found some. $265 bucks per bottle. Wow! I remember buying this exact wine at 7-11 (no joke!) for $8 bucks a bottle. This was in sourthern Cali in 1981? 1982?
$8 bucks!

 

[D-D-W]

That's a good point. Jesus did not serve the disciples bread and wine but they merely passed the bread and cup from one to another. Would seem to me the only requirement is that you be a believer as they were........

It is helpful to remember that the first communion was part of a Passover ceremonial meal called a Seder. While a lot has been added over the last 2 millenia, the root structure of the ceremony is essentially the same as Rabbi Hillel outlined it in the first century BC.

From the various Gospel accounts, it would seem the cup would have been the 3rd cup of 4 (right after the meal) which is called the Cup of Redemption; and the bread may have been the Matzah of the Afikomen; which is a kind of dessert.

As to who can serve that, it is typical in Jewish homes for the last 2.5 millenia (return after Babylon) for the husband/father to lead this ceremony in his own home. As to how that would affect the Christian church, It is important to understand our Lord was NOT trying to kill off Judaism. In fact He even told the disciples to obey the Pharisee Rabbis. (Matthew 23:2–3) But He warned them to NOT follow their actions or attitudes. So if you take that context, it would be fine for any believer to be able to minister the communion elements.

And besides, was not Martin Luther a champion of the concept "Priesthood of the Believer?"

 

[jerry63935]

How this morphed into some special religious ceremony administered by clergy is beyond

in the Church the pastor is in charge of the pulpit and the deacons are servants and a helper to the pastor .that is not saying others can not administer it.. next its NOT some special religious ceremony . when it is administered it should be under the influence of the spirit

 

[gordon777]

The church is not a building that is visible and seen, it is so corrupted in the world that the entire earth has to be melted.

What was never corrupted is inside the heart, the meek and quiet spirit.

Our examples to follow ( if we follow the scriptures) are Jesus Christ ( nowhere to lay His head) and the Apostle to the Gentiles ( Apostle Paul, with no certain dwelling place like Christ.

Even though God made Himself known to Israel, and they had many synagogues, Jesus did not join Himself to their synagogues, instead they became violent towards Christ inside their synagogues.

Apostle Paul established the churches, and whether it was small churches in homes, or ones that grew to fill the world, made clear, the wolves entered them after he died, and corruption began ll that time ago, and did not stop, but as the churches grew, so too did their corruption.




For anyone to follow the right path is told, for all other, let everybody choose as they see fit.


Matthew 8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

1 Corinthians 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.
11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.



Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

1 Peter 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I am a member of a small country Lutheran church. Formerly ALC, merged when the ELCA was formed, and then broke ties with the ELCA a few years ago. We have been an independent congregation ever since. Our pastor, who remained a member of the ELCA in an effort to continue efforts to bring about reform, has recently announced his pending retirement at the end of May. I won't go into details but It was not entirely his choice as there were complications that began to arise over the past year or two and part of his decision came about due to pressure by some members expressing their disapproval of things he has been doing/teaching and things that he was failing to do as our pastor.

In a meeting that I called this past Thursday evening (I'm our council chairperson), we talked about how we should not feel rushed to find a new pastor. Part of the reason is that when we broke ties with the ELCA we had it mind that eventually we would like to be part of another association and so maybe now is a good time to consider exploring that option. We also feel it is important that we wait to allow a little cooling off period and to allow some to mourn the loss of our pastor before we look at calling a new pastor. We decided to look at forming a call committee so we can begin to lay out our needs and expectations with the goal of probably putting out the call sometime late this fall.

In the mean time, it was brought up that we need an interim pastor in part so he/she can administer Holy Communion. This brought up a question in my mind. Does it require an ordained pastor to do this? When I read Scripture, I don't see where it is instructed that this is necessary. As far as I can tell, Jesus just said that whenever we do it we are to it in memory of Him. One thought we had was that we could call on our deacons fulfill this role in absence of a pastor.

For my part, I don't see any reason why we can't.

Thoughts?

There is no biblical support for the need for a church ordained pastor to administer communion.

 

[gordon777]

There is no biblical support for hearing a pastor/priest, or anyone but God on any matter ( to avoid satan and his ministers at the faithless end time now)

 

[Dorothy Mae]

There is no biblical support for hearing a pastor/priest, or anyone but God on any matter ( to avoid satan and his ministers at the faithless end time now)

Being too proud to receive instruction and correction from a person is a sure way to being deceived.

 

[jaybo]

There is no biblical support for hearing a pastor/priest, or anyone but God on any matter ( to avoid satan and his ministers at the faithless end time now)

Matthew 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Is there something about that sentence that you don't understand?

 

[Free]

There is no biblical support for hearing a pastor/priest, or anyone but God on any matter ( to avoid satan and his ministers at the faithless end time now)

Are you talking about all biblical teaching in general?

 

[GodsGrace]

I am a member of a small country Lutheran church. Formerly ALC, merged when the ELCA was formed, and then broke ties with the ELCA a few years ago. We have been an independent congregation ever since. Our pastor, who remained a member of the ELCA in an effort to continue efforts to bring about reform, has recently announced his pending retirement at the end of May. I won't go into details but It was not entirely his choice as there were complications that began to arise over the past year or two and part of his decision came about due to pressure by some members expressing their disapproval of things he has been doing/teaching and things that he was failing to do as our pastor.

In a meeting that I called this past Thursday evening (I'm our council chairperson), we talked about how we should not feel rushed to find a new pastor. Part of the reason is that when we broke ties with the ELCA we had it mind that eventually we would like to be part of another association and so maybe now is a good time to consider exploring that option. We also feel it is important that we wait to allow a little cooling off period and to allow some to mourn the loss of our pastor before we look at calling a new pastor. We decided to look at forming a call committee so we can begin to lay out our needs and expectations with the goal of probably putting out the call sometime late this fall.

In the mean time, it was brought up that we need an interim pastor in part so he/she can administer Holy Communion. This brought up a question in my mind. Does it require an ordained pastor to do this? When I read Scripture, I don't see where it is instructed that this is necessary. As far as I can tell, Jesus just said that whenever we do it we are to it in memory of Him. One thought we had was that we could call on our deacons fulfill this role in absence of a pastor.

For my part, I don't see any reason why we can't.

Thoughts?

Does your congregation believe in the Real Presence?

If not, and it's a remembrance, anyone assigned can do this.

If so, then this question does become important and I'd hesitate to answer.