Question About Holy Communion

[andy pandy]

Try again.
Just google who declared christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire.

Constantine only signed the Edict of Milan declaring that it was no longer ILLEGAL To practice christianity.

I did and that is what I came up with apart from the fact that I already knew it.

 

[GodsGrace]

The point is that Jesus knew that Judas would betray Him to the ruling Jewish authorities, yet He offered him both the bread and the wine. He did not forbid him to participate or consider him unworthy to receive "His body" and "His blood".

It wasn't His Body and Blood until after He died.

 

[GodsGrace]

I did and that is what I came up with apart from the fact that I already knew it.

You knew wrong.

This is not meant for you, but for those reading along so that they do not absorb incorrect information.

 

[WIP]

I have not abused anyone. Being autistic means that we call a spade a spade. We mean what we say and say what we mean. We do not take offence at anything another person says as we do not have the capacity to experience feelings.

I always watch what I put in writing because for me the most important thing is to tell the truth. If I can't do that I prefer not to speak. I have no faith in my opinion or anyone elses for that matter.

Just to help you understand the mind of an autistic person, a friend of ours has an autistic son and they were at the shopping centre one day and he said to his parents pointing to a particular woman, "that woman is fat."

He wasn't being rude, aggressive, demeaning or arrogant. All he was doing was telling his parents what he saw. There was no judgment in what he said.

The police love autistic witnesses. They know if they say they saw a man who was wearing a red beanie, they know that the suspect was wearing a red beanie beause they know that they deal in facts and nothing else.

The other thing is that if you contact any organisatioin that specialise in autism, they will terll you when it comes to relationships someone has to change and it has to be the other person because autistic people cannot change. Bear that in mind whe you sit in judgment on what I say and how I say it.

If you want me to be all nice and soft and have a don't rock the boat mentality it ain't going to happen. If you ban me all you are doing is depriving the other contributors of what I can contribute to the forum. As I said the number of likes I have got since being on here shows that a lot of people appreciate my contribution.

Not everyone but no one is perfect. We are all work in progress so if you want perfection best give up your role as moderator.

I will try to keep this in mind.

 

[WIP]

It seems you are suggesting other don't do that especially if they write a book. With all due respects, that is not for you to judge. Because so many Christians don't read books let alone the bible, we should encourage everyone to read good books AND the bible. By doing that you can canvas various views and determine through the leading of the Holy Spirit what is the correct meaning of anything in the bible.

Paul said there has to be false prophets amongst you so that you can know who are not false prophets. So I say to you if you rely on your intrepretation of the bible alone you are a good candidate to be led up the path.

It is no use saying well I have got the Holy Spirit to show me the truth.

Has Kenneth Copeland got the truth? He believes he is led by the Holy Spirit?

Has John McArthur got the truth? He believes he is led by the Holy Spirit.

Did Charles Colson have the truth? He believed he had the Holy Spirit.

When you set yourself up as the one and only way you are destined for a fall.

I'm not suggesting that others don't test the spirits. What I am suggesting is that we cannot know if that is what they have done. Books can be published whether filled with truth or deception so we must be responsible to also test what is written against Scripture. This is also true when it comes to higher education.

My whole point was that just because you have read lots of books or have higher education credits does not make you an authority necessarily. It could but there's no guarantee.

You have made my point quite well in your post but I also have to ask, why do you say it is no use to trust the Holy Spirit to show me the truth?

 

[GodsGrace]

Did you study any of the books that give the background and life and times of the New Testament Church?

I just saw this.

Yes. I know about the early church, which I consider to be into the third century...
after that it changes ---

I forget why I mentioned the Didache !

 

[GodsGrace]

I have not abused anyone. Being autistic means that we call a spade a spade. We mean what we say and say what we mean. We do not take offence at anything another person says as we do not have the capacity to experience feelings.

I always watch what I put in writing because for me the most important thing is to tell the truth. If I can't do that I prefer not to speak. I have no faith in my opinion or anyone elses for that matter.

Just to help you understand the mind of an autistic person, a friend of ours has an autistic son and they were at the shopping centre one day and he said to his parents pointing to a particular woman, "that woman is fat."

He wasn't being rude, aggressive, demeaning or arrogant. All he was doing was telling his parents what he saw. There was no judgment in what he said.

The police love autistic witnesses. They know if they say they saw a man who was wearing a red beanie, they know that the suspect was wearing a red beanie beause they know that they deal in facts and nothing else.

The other thing is that if you contact any organisatioin that specialise in autism, they will terll you when it comes to relationships someone has to change and it has to be the other person because autistic people cannot change. Bear that in mind whe you sit in judgment on what I say and how I say it.

If you want me to be all nice and soft and have a don't rock the boat mentality it ain't going to happen. If you ban me all you are doing is depriving the other contributors of what I can contribute to the forum. As I said the number of likes I have got since being on here shows that a lot of people appreciate my contribution.

Not everyone but no one is perfect. We are all work in progress so if you want perfection best give up your role as moderator.

Hi Andy,
I know all about autism.
Everything you say above is true....
may I make a suggestion?

In your signature line, maybe you could write something to the effect that you have autism.
It'll make others be aware of the "problem". Another of our members does this, but autism is not the problem.

I just want to say that I know that everything you do you had to learn, one thing at a time...even what to say and what not to say.
I don't know how old you are or how far up on the spectrum you are....
but I know that you CAN control, somewhat, what you say or write.
MAYBE...it depends where you are on the spectrum and I'm not going to speculate.

I think it's wonderful that you're a born again Christian...my granddaughter is also.
She loves Jesus more than most persons do.
This is because she can express her feelings and she does have emotions,,,but this does not mean that YOU do.

Yes. I think a footnote in your signature line might be a good idea.
Just a suggestion.

I can't remember if I welcomed you to the forum..I think I did...
but anyway...

 

[for_his_glory]

But Jesus did include Judas in the eating of His "body" and the drinking of His "blood". So, I trust Jesus' behavior -- His inclusion of Judas -- over the opinion of others.

Please answer me this: why did Jesus include Judas?

Jesus broke bread and it was passed one to another, Jesus took the cup and it was passed to one another. When one of the disciples passed to Judas who was one of the twelve he partook of it like all the rest. The difference is that Judas had already sold out Jesus and was guilty of the body and blood of Christ. Jesus already knew what Judas was about to do. It wasn't that Christ included any of His disciples, but they were all gathered there with Him for the Passover meal.

 

[for_his_glory]

According to you, Judas, even though he partook, was not worthy as he was guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. According to Jesus that wasn't the case. Jesus did not deny Judas the bread or wine. Period!

Does Jesus deny anyone of partaking, no. Many, like Judas, partake unworthily as they have unrepented sin as they willingly sin and even though they go to church many are none of His own. Willful sin puts the sacrifice of Christ to shame.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

 

[for_his_glory]

According to you, Judas, even though he partook, was not worthy as he was guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. According to Jesus that wasn't the case. Jesus did not deny Judas the bread or wine. Period!

It's not according to me as it is according to the scriptures I already posted. If you want to argue that which has already been written then you need to take that up with God who is the author.

 

[for_his_glory]

The point is that Jesus knew that Judas would betray Him to the ruling Jewish authorities, yet He offered him both the bread and the wine. He did not forbid him to participate or consider him unworthy to receive "His body" and "His blood".

Does Christ forbid you to walk into a church because you have unrepented sin, no. It's the same thing with Judas who partook unworthily as he was guilty of the body and blood of Christ.

 

[jaybo]

It wasn't His Body and Blood until after He died.

"While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after giving thanks he broke it, gave it to his disciples, and said, “For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” Then he took bread, and after giving thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” And in the same way he took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood." Luke 22:18-20

Notice the present tense: this is my body...This cup... is the new covenant in my blood. So your claiming that "It wasn't His Body and Blood until after He died" has no basis in Scripture.

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't know because it is a man made institution which is not sanctioned by scripture so I guess your question is a bit irrelelvant.

Wow!!! So you reject all that Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Paul wrote about the breaking of bread and drinking the wine? What is so wrong in keeping remembrance of what Christ did for us. Paul and Luke both wrote, do this in remembrance of me.

 

[jaybo]

It's not according to me as it is according to the scriptures I already posted. If you want to argue that which has already been written then you need to take that up with God who is the author.

Oh please! I can just as easily say the same words: "It's not according to me as it is according to the scriptures I already posted. If you want to argue that which has already been written then you need to take that up with God who is the author."

Jesus did not deny Judas the bread or wine.

 

[for_his_glory]

I know all about the shepherding movement and it went wrong not because of the five who started it but due to the fact that some people misinterpreted the purpose and operatioin of it so in some parts it went astray. In some parts it was a roaring success, so we don't throw out the baby with the bathwater and we don't judge a book by its cover.

When you have achieved as much as Derek Prince did, I will listen to what you have to say about him. For a start, thousands have come into the Kingdom of God because of his teaching. How many have come into the Kingdom of God because of your teaching?

Again I will repost this part of this false religion that you have become indoctrinated in.

The end result of shepherding is that it puts the submissive person in a position of having two masters – Jesus Christ and a personal shepherd. Over time the shepherd gains more power and control over the one being shepherded, and Jesus Christ is terribly overshadowed. In other words, shepherding becomes nothing more than an idolatrous religious system. Unfortunately, all kinds of abuse resulted from the shepherding movement. Extensive documentation exists describing the abuses that took place. In hindsight, what started out as a method of accountability morphed into a system of enslaved people.

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

 

[jaybo]

Does Christ forbid you to walk into a church because you have unrepented sin, no. It's the same thing with Judas who partook unworthily as he was guilty of the body and blood of Christ.

So..? The fact remains that Jesus offered the bread and wine to all who were at the table, including Judas. Indeed, He knew that Judas would betray Him yet offered the bread and wine to him regardless.

In case you're unaware some churches deny the wine and bread to those who don't meet their (unscriptural) standard.

 

[jaybo]

Again I will repost this part of this false religion that you have become indoctrinated in.

The end result of shepherding is that it puts the submissive person in a position of having two masters – Jesus Christ and a personal shepherd. Over time the shepherd gains more power and control over the one being shepherded, and Jesus Christ is terribly overshadowed. In other words, shepherding becomes nothing more than an idolatrous religious system. Unfortunately, all kinds of abuse resulted from the shepherding movement. Extensive documentation exists describing the abuses that took place. In hindsight, what started out as a method of accountability morphed into a system of enslaved people.

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

This has nothing to do with the subject of the thread: question about holy communion.

 

[GodsGrace]

"While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after giving thanks he broke it, gave it to his disciples, and said, “For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” Then he took bread, and after giving thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” And in the same way he took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood." Luke 22:18-20

Notice the present tense: this is my body...This cup... is the new covenant in my blood. So your claiming that "It wasn't His Body and Blood until after He died" has no basis in Scripture.

When did the New Covenant take effect?

 

[GodsGrace]

Oh please! I can just as easily say the same words: "It's not according to me as it is according to the scriptures I already posted. If you want to argue that which has already been written then you need to take that up with God who is the author."

Jesus did not deny Judas the bread or wine.

The New Covenant was not yet in effect, and was not until Jesus died.
A testament becomes valid After someone dies.

 

[jaybo]

When did the New Covenant take effect?

Jesus said, "And in the same way he took the cup after they had eaten saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood." Luke 22:20 (present tense)

Why can't you stick to the subject of the OP?