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Question About Holy Communion

I hasten to add that I do know that a lot of so called experts cast aspersions on learning and study and consider it irrelevant and a waste of time and as for reading a book, heaven help us.

Thankyou for confirming what I said.

One of the greatest scholars that modern day Christendom has every produced is Derek Prince. He was a man filled with the spirit; the youngest professor at Oxford University at the age of 25; had a Ph.D in Greek and Hebrew and taught languages.

Nice to know that he was a waste of space according to you and all his learning was not sanctioned by the Holy Spirit so it was a complete waste of time.

Ah well. I guess I will have to just ignore the fact that he has written numerous books that teach the scriptures that deal with the " news behind the news" so to speak and they are printed in their millions and sent to christians in countries free of charge because they cannot afford them.

Just think. All those milllions of Christian being led astray because the author of the books they read dared to read other books.
You can by your own choice continue to follow the Shepherding Movement, but you might want to look at how it was founded more on the submission of man rather than submission to Christ. Here is what this movement is all about.

Founders of the Shepherding Movement were Don Basham, Bob Mumford, Derick Prince, Charles Simpson and Erin Baxter

These five “anointed” men began to teach on authority, submission, and discipleship. The doctrine that reshaped the charismatic community was that every individual must be submitted to another person and that all major life decisions should be submitted to a “shepherd or pastor”. It became a system in which elders or “shepherds” acted as spiritual leaders responsible for the entire church. Individual church members were assigned to specific elders and were “submitted” to them. Over time, a religious system developed in which a blind obedience to “man” was promoted.

Another doctrine that these leaders emphasized was “Covenant” relationships or “Spiritual Family”. When one entered into a discipleship relationship, it was permanent, as was one’s association with a group of believers. Members were in a “Covenant” with one another. If someone left the relationship or the fellowship group, they were breaking a covenant. These kinds of religious systems often place more emphasis on one’s “spiritual family” than one’s natural family. If a misguided shepherd is in charge of such a system, cult-like behavior is the logical result.


The end result of shepherding is that it puts the submissive person in a position of having two masters – Jesus Christ and a personal shepherd. Over time the shepherd gains more power and control over the one being shepherded, and Jesus Christ is terribly overshadowed. In other words, shepherding becomes nothing more than an idolatrous religious system. Unfortunately, all kinds of abuse resulted from the shepherding movement. Extensive documentation exists describing the abuses that took place. In hindsight, what started out as a method of accountability morphed into a system of enslaved people.


As time went by, the fruit of these doctrines became obvious to charismatic leaders outside the movement. Some of these leaders confronted the “Five” in what has been called the “Shootout at the Curtis Hotel.” The Fort Lauderdale Five eventually parted company, and Derek Prince and Bob Mumford distanced themselves from the teaching. Derek Prince, who withdrew in 1983, explained publicly that “we were guilty of the Galatian error: having begun in the Spirit, we quickly regenerated into the flesh.” Bob Mumford issued a “Formal Repentance Statement to the Body of Christ” in 1990 and was quoted as saying: “Discipleship was wrong. I repent. I ask forgiveness.”
 
Jesus gave Judas the same bread and wine as the others at the table.
1Cor 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

Judas, even though he partook, was not worthy as he was guilty of the body and blood of the Lord as he sold Him out for his own lust giving only thought of self. All are put to shame who willingly sin, but yet partake, as they desecrate the body and the blood of Christ as they are also following the lust of the flesh, even if they go to Church. There are many that go to church, but yet are none of His own as they are all about self.
 
1Cor 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

Judas, even though he partook, was not worthy as he was guilty of the body and blood of the Lord as he sold Him out for his own lust giving only thought of self. All are put to shame who willingly sin, but yet partake, as they desecrate the body and the blood of Christ as they are also following the lust of the flesh, even if they go to Church. There are many that go to church, but yet are none of His own as they are all about self.
According to you, Judas, even though he partook, was not worthy as he was guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. According to Jesus that wasn't the case. Jesus did not deny Judas the bread or wine. Period!
 
According to you, Judas, even though he partook, was not worthy as he was guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. According to Jesus that wasn't the case. Jesus did not deny Judas the bread or wine. Period!
I never said Jesus denied him the bread and the wine. I said he took it unworthily.
 
I never said Jesus denied him the bread and the wine. I said he took it unworthily.
But Jesus did include Judas in the eating of His "body" and the drinking of His "blood". So, I trust Jesus' behavior -- His inclusion of Judas -- over the opinion of others.

Please answer me this: why did Jesus include Judas?
 
I never said Jesus denied him the bread and the wine. I said he took it unworthily.

The point is that Jesus knew that Judas would betray Him to the ruling Jewish authorities, yet He offered him both the bread and the wine. He did not forbid him to participate or consider him unworthy to receive "His body" and "His blood".
 
You can by your own choice continue to follow the Shepherding Movement, but you might want to look at how it was founded more on the submission of man rather than submission to Christ. Here is what this movement is all about.

Founders of the Shepherding Movement were Don Basham, Bob Mumford, Derick Prince, Charles Simpson and Erin Baxter

These five “anointed” men began to teach on authority, submission, and discipleship. The doctrine that reshaped the charismatic community was that every individual must be submitted to another person and that all major life decisions should be submitted to a “shepherd or pastor”. It became a system in which elders or “shepherds” acted as spiritual leaders responsible for the entire church. Individual church members were assigned to specific elders and were “submitted” to them. Over time, a religious system developed in which a blind obedience to “man” was promoted.

Another doctrine that these leaders emphasized was “Covenant” relationships or “Spiritual Family”. When one entered into a discipleship relationship, it was permanent, as was one’s association with a group of believers. Members were in a “Covenant” with one another. If someone left the relationship or the fellowship group, they were breaking a covenant. These kinds of religious systems often place more emphasis on one’s “spiritual family” than one’s natural family. If a misguided shepherd is in charge of such a system, cult-like behavior is the logical result.


The end result of shepherding is that it puts the submissive person in a position of having two masters – Jesus Christ and a personal shepherd. Over time the shepherd gains more power and control over the one being shepherded, and Jesus Christ is terribly overshadowed. In other words, shepherding becomes nothing more than an idolatrous religious system. Unfortunately, all kinds of abuse resulted from the shepherding movement. Extensive documentation exists describing the abuses that took place. In hindsight, what started out as a method of accountability morphed into a system of enslaved people.


As time went by, the fruit of these doctrines became obvious to charismatic leaders outside the movement. Some of these leaders confronted the “Five” in what has been called the “Shootout at the Curtis Hotel.” The Fort Lauderdale Five eventually parted company, and Derek Prince and Bob Mumford distanced themselves from the teaching. Derek Prince, who withdrew in 1983, explained publicly that “we were guilty of the Galatian error: having begun in the Spirit, we quickly regenerated into the flesh.” Bob Mumford issued a “Formal Repentance Statement to the Body of Christ” in 1990 and was quoted as saying: “Discipleship was wrong. I repent. I ask forgiveness.”


I know all about the shepherding movement and it went wrong not because of the five who started it but due to the fact that some people misinterpreted the purpose and operatioin of it so in some parts it went astray. In some parts it was a roaring success, so we don't throw out the baby with the bathwater and we don't judge a book by its cover.

When you have achieved as much as Derek Prince did, I will listen to what you have to say about him. For a start, thousands have come into the Kingdom of God because of his teaching. How many have come into the Kingdom of God because of your teaching?
 
Agreed on all except no. 11

Constantine legalized Christianity but he did not make it the official religion of the Roman Empire.
That was Theodoseus 400AD, approx.
Constantine I, byname Constantine the Great, Latin in full Flavius Valerius Constantinus, (born February 27, after 280 BC?, Naissus, Moesia [now Niš, Serbia]—died May 22, 337, Ancyrona, near Nicomedia, Bithynia [now İzmit, Turkey]), first Roman emperor to profess Christianity. He not only initiated the evolution of the empire into a Christian state but also provided the impulse for a distinctively Christian culture that prepared the way for the growth of Byzantine and Western medieval culture.
 
That's good but how do you determine that what they teach is truth? Scripture is still our foundation and even Scripture gives us warning and direction.

Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
Colossians 2:8 NKJV

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
1 John 4:1 NKJV

If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
James 1:5 NKJV


The remainder of your reply I will not address accept to say that I would like to offer a word of warning about your attitude. If you are incapable of remaining civil in this discussion, it is probably best to bow out now. Staff will not allow you to continue on this path for it is not a Christian-like behavior. Just sayin'.
How do I know? what a strange question. How does anyone know anything? Study to shew yourself approved to God a workman that need not be ashamed. How do you know the people that teach you are telling you the truth or just denominational doctrine?

I am remaining capable of being civil in this discussion. But I do so within the confines of my autsim which limits me to specific ways of comunication. That is a disability so to ban me is to discriminate against someone with a disability. If you do that, I will have the money back that I have donated to the ministry.

The truth of the matter is that I don't give you the answers you want in a way you want. There is nothing I can do about that, and judging by the likes I get here, most people do not see my way of communicating a problem.

And don't forget we are told to forgive 490 times in the Scriptures.
 
Wow, slow your roll!!! I never said I was the only one taught by the Holy Spirit, say I am always right, or ask anyone to believe what I say, but to believe that which is written in the scriptures. This arrogance of yours will not get you very far a being a member of CF.
It is implied in your reply that you are the only one taught by the holy spirit as you said I can't be right because I read books.
 
How do I know? what a strange question. How does anyone know anything? Study to shew yourself approved to God a workman that need not be ashamed. How do you know the people that teach you are telling you the truth or just denominational doctrine?
I provided one answer in my last post. We can know by testing the spirits to see they are from God. In other words, we pit what it taught against the Word of God. This is one reason I believe the Scriptures were inspired to be put in writing.
 
I am remaining capable of being civil in this discussion. But I do so within the confines of my autsim which limits me to specific ways of comunication. That is a disability so to ban me is to discriminate against someone with a disability.
Having a disability does not give you special privilege to abuse others especially when you are obviously aware of it. Your response to me was abusive and I have chosen to let it slide for now but thought you should know to watch what you put in writing.
 
It doesn't impress me much how many degrees, universities or years you or anyone has put into their studies. If what one learns from others did not come from the Holy Spirit then I am not going to believe the lies and false teachings that are in the world to deceive us. I'm 66 and have been studying the word of God for well over forty years and will never exhaust the teachings of Good. My correction when needed comes from the Holy Spirit, not man.

Worthily means not to have any unconfessed sin.

I don't need mans theology books or commentaries to study from their carnal logical interpretations of scripture that does not line up with scripture when I have the ultimate book to study from called the Sword, which means the word of God for what He gave the prophets and Apostles to write. When one studies the history and culture of the scriptures there is not much more ones needs apart from the Holy Spirit.
I don't need mans theology books or commentaries to study from their carnal logical interpretations of scripture that does not line up with scripture when I have the ultimate book to study from called the Sword, which means the word of God for what He gave the prophets and Apostles to write

What you have said is me and the bible is all I need. So you guys out there who think you have something to contribute in your books is wasting your time. What you have said cannot be inspired by the Holy Spirit so it is rubbish.

So, you think that "In His Steps" by Corrie Ten Boom is waste of time?

So you think that "Life Sentence" by Charles Colson is a waste of time?

So you think that "Covenant People" by Tony Morton is a waste of time?

So you think that the "Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible" edited by Walter Elwell is a waste of time?

So you thiink that "Evangelism in the Early Church" by Michael Green is a waste of time?
 
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Having a disability does not give you special privilege to abuse others especially when you are obviously aware of it. Your response to me was abusive and I have chosen to let it slide for now but thought you should know to watch what you put in writing.
I have not abused anyone. Being autistic means that we call a spade a spade. We mean what we say and say what we mean. We do not take offence at anything another person says as we do not have the capacity to experience feelings.

I always watch what I put in writing because for me the most important thing is to tell the truth. If I can't do that I prefer not to speak. I have no faith in my opinion or anyone elses for that matter.

Just to help you understand the mind of an autistic person, a friend of ours has an autistic son and they were at the shopping centre one day and he said to his parents pointing to a particular woman, "that woman is fat."

He wasn't being rude, aggressive, demeaning or arrogant. All he was doing was telling his parents what he saw. There was no judgment in what he said.

The police love autistic witnesses. They know if they say they saw a man who was wearing a red beanie, they know that the suspect was wearing a red beanie beause they know that they deal in facts and nothing else.

The other thing is that if you contact any organisatioin that specialise in autism, they will terll you when it comes to relationships someone has to change and it has to be the other person because autistic people cannot change. Bear that in mind whe you sit in judgment on what I say and how I say it.

If you want me to be all nice and soft and have a don't rock the boat mentality it ain't going to happen. If you ban me all you are doing is depriving the other contributors of what I can contribute to the forum. As I said the number of likes I have got since being on here shows that a lot of people appreciate my contribution.

Not everyone but no one is perfect. We are all work in progress so if you want perfection best give up your role as moderator.
 
I provided one answer in my last post. We can know by testing the spirits to see they are from God. In other words, we pit what it taught against the Word of God. This is one reason I believe the Scriptures were inspired to be put in writing.

It seems you are suggesting other don't do that especially if they write a book. With all due respects, that is not for you to judge. Because so many Christians don't read books let alone the bible, we should encourage everyone to read good books AND the bible. By doing that you can canvas various views and determine through the leading of the Holy Spirit what is the correct meaning of anything in the bible.

Paul said there has to be false prophets amongst you so that you can know who are not false prophets. So I say to you if you rely on your intrepretation of the bible alone you are a good candidate to be led up the path.

It is no use saying well I have got the Holy Spirit to show me the truth.

Has Kenneth Copeland got the truth? He believes he is led by the Holy Spirit?

Has John McArthur got the truth? He believes he is led by the Holy Spirit.

Did Charles Colson have the truth? He believed he had the Holy Spirit.

When you set yourself up as the one and only way you are destined for a fall.
 
Constantine I, byname Constantine the Great, Latin in full Flavius Valerius Constantinus, (born February 27, after 280 BC?, Naissus, Moesia [now Niš, Serbia]—died May 22, 337, Ancyrona, near Nicomedia, Bithynia [now İzmit, Turkey]), first Roman emperor to profess Christianity. He not only initiated the evolution of the empire into a Christian state but also provided the impulse for a distinctively Christian culture that prepared the way for the growth of Byzantine and Western medieval culture.
Try again.
Just google who declared christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire.

Constantine only signed the Edict of Milan declaring that it was no longer ILLEGAL To practice christianity.
 
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