Question about "Nephilim"

[Mysteryman]

Two accounts in Job does not prove that sons of God means angels and only angels in every occasion through out the O.T.. In the context of Genesis 6 there is no reason anyone should believe that angels had offspring with humans, nor that the giants in the land were the offspring of any union between the sons of God, and the daughters of men regardless of who or what they represent.

It's actually 3 separate OT accounts defining in that time that the "sons of God" then ONLY meant angels, Genesis 6, Job 1 & 2, and 38. The "sons of God" title as used in the NT is connected with the heavenly state of the angels also, because it's actually pointing to our future state after the change to the "spiritual body" which Apostle Paul taught in 1 Cor.15. Christ in Matt.22:30 when answering the Sadducees about the resurrection, said that in the resurrecdtion "they are as the angels of God in heaven". This is also why Apostle John said what he did here...

I Jn 3:1-3
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew Him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in Him purifieth himself, even as He is pure.
(KJV)

Thus I'm very surprised that some would choose to stray totally away from the only evidence for that title "sons of God" within Scripture, and in leaning to their own philosophy outside God's Word. With many mysterious events in God's Word, we are not required to always understand HOW an event could take place; we are asked to believe God's Word as written. We are not always going to understand HOW some things could happen, which is why many unbelievers assign God's Word as myth.

The Book of Jude gives us the strongest clue of the HOW of the fallen angels mated with the daughters of men in Gen.6...

Jude 1:6-7
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
(KJV)

That example from Jude is about those "sons of God" (angels) in Genesis 6 that took "wives" of the daughters of men as written. We're told they "kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation". What might that mean? It definitely means they somehow left their original state when coming to the earth to take "wives" of the "daughters of men". The "Even as" is like a conjunction which continues what it was they did, put in comparison to what those of Sodom and Gomorrah did with the practice of fornication by going after strange flesh. In those two Jude verses we're being shown those angels didn't keep their original estate and habitation, meaning they actually did come to earth. And, their sin is connected with the sin of fornication, going after strange flesh.

So someone who chooses to disregard the Scripture as written because they have difficulty in understanding how something like that could happen, that's OK. But it's not OK to add a totally foreign interpretation to the Scripture where we are clearly shown those angel's sin involved a sin of fornication.

People ! Still desiring to walk not by the Spirit, but by the carnal mind.

I am going to ask you and anyone else. Can you , or anyone, give the definition of fornication from a spiritual perspective ?

I don't want the worldly definiton, I want the spiritual definition.

Like when Paul said - " I love you with a godly jealousy" < What was Paul saying spiritually ?

But I want the spiritual definiton of "fornication".

IN Christ - MM

 

[nadab]

Jude made it very clear that the "angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place....so too Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them, after they in the same manner as the foregoing ones (the angels that did keep their original position) has committed fornication excessively and gone out after flesh for unnatural use, are placed before us as a warning example."(Jude 6, 7) Thus, these renegade angels "committed fornication excessively and gone out after flesh for unnatural use."

Hence, what is reserved for these angels is the same judgment that those of Sodom and Gomorrah received, is the "judicial punishment of everlasting fire" (Jude 7), or eternal destruction at the end of the "thousand year" reign of Jesus Christ.(Rev 20:10)

 

[ronniechoate34]

I have often thought that the giants were actually people that were revered for their knowledge or their skills as an actor or a musician, etc. It has often occurred to me that people who are alive today, and in past times, have made claims of being impregnated by aliens, or having "moon children" and the like. There are also documented cases of demonic rape. Could there be a connection between culture and intelligence to these supposed offspring of human angel relations?

 

[ronniechoate34]

Two accounts in Job does not prove that sons of God means angels and only angels in every occasion through out the O.T.. In the context of Genesis 6 there is no reason anyone should believe that angels had offspring with humans, nor that the giants in the land were the offspring of any union between the sons of God, and the daughters of men regardless of who or what they represent.

It's actually 3 separate OT accounts defining in that time that the "sons of God" then ONLY meant angels, Genesis 6, Job 1 & 2, and 38. The "sons of God" title as used in the NT is connected with the heavenly state of the angels also, because it's actually pointing to our future state after the change to the "spiritual body" which Apostle Paul taught in 1 Cor.15. Christ in Matt.22:30 when answering the Sadducees about the resurrection, said that in the resurrecdtion "they are as the angels of God in heaven". This is also why Apostle John said what he did here...

I Jn 3:1-3
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew Him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in Him purifieth himself, even as He is pure.
(KJV)

Thus I'm very surprised that some would choose to stray totally away from the only evidence for that title "sons of God" within Scripture, and in leaning to their own philosophy outside God's Word. With many mysterious events in God's Word, we are not required to always understand HOW an event could take place; we are asked to believe God's Word as written. We are not always going to understand HOW some things could happen, which is why many unbelievers assign God's Word as myth.

The Book of Jude gives us the strongest clue of the HOW of the fallen angels mated with the daughters of men in Gen.6...

Jude 1:6-7
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
(KJV)

That example from Jude is about those "sons of God" (angels) in Genesis 6 that took "wives" of the daughters of men as written. We're told they "kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation". What might that mean? It definitely means they somehow left their original state when coming to the earth to take "wives" of the "daughters of men". The "Even as" is like a conjunction which continues what it was they did, put in comparison to what those of Sodom and Gomorrah did with the practice of fornication by going after strange flesh. In those two Jude verses we're being shown those angels didn't keep their original estate and habitation, meaning they actually did come to earth. And, their sin is connected with the sin of fornication, going after strange flesh.

So someone who chooses to disregard the Scripture as written because they have difficulty in understanding how something like that could happen, that's OK. But it's not OK to add a totally foreign interpretation to the Scripture where we are clearly shown those angel's sin involved a sin of fornication.

People ! Still desiring to walk not by the Spirit, but by the carnal mind.

I am going to ask you and anyone else. Can you , or anyone, give the definition of fornication from a spiritual perspective ?

I don't want the worldly definiton, I want the spiritual definition.

Like when Paul said - " I love you with a godly jealousy" < What was Paul saying spiritually ?

But I want the spiritual definiton of "fornication".

IN Christ - MM

Isn't spiritual fornication mixing different religious beliefs practices up?

 

[Mysteryman]

People ! Still desiring to walk not by the Spirit, but by the carnal mind.

I am going to ask you and anyone else. Can you , or anyone, give the definition of fornication from a spiritual perspective ?

I don't want the worldly definiton, I want the spiritual definition.

Like when Paul said - " I love you with a godly jealousy" < What was Paul saying spiritually ?

But I want the spiritual definiton of "fornication".

IN Christ - MM[/quote]


Isn't spiritual fornication mixing different religious beliefs practices up?[/quote]

Is it ?

Or, is it one who believes and acts on a lie , from one who lied to you, thus causing you to be deceived ?

IN Christ - MM

 

[ronniechoate34]

People ! Still desiring to walk not by the Spirit, but by the carnal mind.

I am going to ask you and anyone else. Can you , or anyone, give the definition of fornication from a spiritual perspective ?

I don't want the worldly definiton, I want the spiritual definition.

Like when Paul said - " I love you with a godly jealousy" < What was Paul saying spiritually ?

But I want the spiritual definiton of "fornication".

IN Christ - MM

Isn't spiritual fornication mixing different religious beliefs practices up?[/quote]

Is it ?

Or, is it one who believes and acts on a lie , from one who lied to you, thus causing you to be deceived ?

IN Christ - MM[/quote]


Isn't that kind of the same thing?


I know that anything that isn't pure truth is a lie. There are many people being deceived inside the churches, and outside of the churches.


Jas:4:1: From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
Jas:4:2: Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Jas:4:3: Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Jas:4:4: Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.


2Tm:3:12: Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2Tm:3:13: But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Tm:3:14: But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Tm:3:15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Tm:3:16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Tm:3:17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Mysteryman]

People ! Still desiring to walk not by the Spirit, but by the carnal mind.

I am going to ask you and anyone else. Can you , or anyone, give the definition of fornication from a spiritual perspective ?

I don't want the worldly definiton, I want the spiritual definition.

Like when Paul said - " I love you with a godly jealousy" < What was Paul saying spiritually ?

But I want the spiritual definiton of "fornication".

IN Christ - MM

Yes, I agree

And might I add, it is getting worse every day.

Thanks

IN Christ - MM


Isn't spiritual fornication mixing different religious beliefs practices up?

Is it ?

Or, is it one who believes and acts on a lie , from one who lied to you, thus causing you to be deceived ?

IN Christ - MM[/quote]


Isn't that kind of the same thing?


I know that anything that isn't pure truth is a lie. There are many people being deceived inside the churches, and outside of the churches.


Jas:4:1: From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
Jas:4:2: Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Jas:4:3: Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Jas:4:4: Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.


2Tm:3:12: Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2Tm:3:13: But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Tm:3:14: But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Tm:3:15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Tm:3:16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Tm:3:17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.[/quote]

 

[Mysteryman]

Yes, we have been warned, that there are many deceivers gone out into the world.

So our work is cut out for us, that is for sure !

IN Christ - MM

 

[SonByAdoption]

Good Afternoon Mamre. I'm so glad you joined this forum.
Love it,Love it,Love it. I'm very impressed by your explanation of Nephilim. I'm definitely going to refer back to it for scripture references in the future. People always want to blame other people for their problems. No people couldn't have gotten that evil by themselves. It must be that the fallen angels had babies with the humans besides the fact that this so no where mentioned in the N.T. must be that Jesus and His disciples did not have this interpretation. I only had a couple of problems with what you said. Don't hate me too much.

An evidence of people that wanted to be like God can be seen in Genesis 5:3
"And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:"
Notice how the text stresses that Seth was in the likeness of his father (Adam) "after his image;" Were not Abel or Cain men just like Adam was? Weren't they begotten by a human being, therefore, in his likeness?

However, of Seth this is stressed indicating more then merely being of the same species. The scriptures shows that this was a son that walked righteously like his father, a man that followed the commandments of God. Furthermore, in verse 1 we read:
"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;" So the stress in verse 3 compares that Seth being begotten by Adam in his likeness, with Adam being begotten in the likeness of God; which indicates that Seth was righteous as his father Adam, and therefore he could truly be called a son of God. And there were many others that were faithful as Seth was. They were the sons and daughters of God.

I know you probably did this mistakenly and hurridly but I'm going to have to remind you something you might already know that begotten doesn't mean created. Adam was created in the image of God. He was not born from God as only one being was born from Him God's only Born Son. Adam was born from the dirt. God knelt down and molded a little clay figure of Himself and brought it to life.

You say Seth is Adam's only son followed God and not Cain or Able because He was the only one who was born in adam's image and likeness. Which is totally unbiblical by the way because Abel is mentioned so many times as being faithful. I don't think Seth or even Adam himself made it into the Great hall of faith of Hebrews 11 but I'm sure Abel is listed.

I read one time you said that God the Father has an Eternal Body and man was made in His image so I don't know why you are missing this. Wouldn't you say that Adam looked like God? So the only reason Seth is the only son listed as being begotten in Adam's image in his likeness is because Seth is his only son who looked exactly like his dad. I mean when the baby was grown ofcourse. Have you heard it said of someone that they look like a splitting image of their old man or the daughter was a splitting image of her mom. Maybe Cain and Abel took more after their mom so it couldn't be said that they were begotten in Adam's image after his likeness.

 

[mamre]

Good Afternoon Mamre. I'm so glad you joined this forum.
Love it,Love it,Love it. I'm very impressed by your explanation of Nephilim. I'm definitely going to refer back to it for scripture references in the future. People always want to blame other people for their problems. No people couldn't have gotten that evil by themselves. It must be that the fallen angels had babies with the humans besides the fact that this so no where mentioned in the N.T. must be that Jesus and His disciples did not have this interpretation. I only had a couple of problems with what you said. Don't hate me too much.

An evidence of people that wanted to be like God can be seen in Genesis 5:3
"And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:"
Notice how the text stresses that Seth was in the likeness of his father (Adam) "after his image;" Were not Abel or Cain men just like Adam was? Weren't they begotten by a human being, therefore, in his likeness?

However, of Seth this is stressed indicating more then merely being of the same species. The scriptures shows that this was a son that walked righteously like his father, a man that followed the commandments of God. Furthermore, in verse 1 we read:
"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;" So the stress in verse 3 compares that Seth being begotten by Adam in his likeness, with Adam being begotten in the likeness of God; which indicates that Seth was righteous as his father Adam, and therefore he could truly be called a son of God. And there were many others that were faithful as Seth was. They were the sons and daughters of God.

I know you probably did this mistakenly and hurridly but I'm going to have to remind you something you might already know that begotten doesn't mean created. Adam was created in the image of God. He was not born from God as only one being was born from Him God's only Born Son. Adam was born from the dirt. God knelt down and molded a little clay figure of Himself and brought it to life.

You say Seth is Adam's only son followed God and not Cain or Able because He was the only one who was born in adam's image and likeness. Which is totally unbiblical by the way because Abel is mentioned so many times as being faithful. I don't think Seth or even Adam himself made it into the Great hall of faith of Hebrews 11 but I'm sure Abel is listed.

I read one time you said that God the Father has an Eternal Body and man was made in His image so I don't know why you are missing this. Wouldn't you say that Adam looked like God? So the only reason Seth is the only son listed as being begotten in Adam's image in his likeness is because Seth is his only son who looked exactly like his dad. I mean when the baby was grown ofcourse. Have you heard it said of someone that they look like a splitting image of their old man or the daughter was a splitting image of her mom. Maybe Cain and Abel took more after their mom so it couldn't be said that they were begotten in Adam's image after his likeness.

SonByAdoption,

Sorry, I can't understand anything you wrote above.
Here's what I meant:

In that time there were two types of people, those that followed the commandments of God and those that didn't.
Those that follow the commandments were known as the Sons of God as they had been given power to become such as in John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"

Those that didn't follow the commandments were simply known as men or sons and daughters of man.

The Sons of Man broke their covenants and took the daughters of men for wives instead of taking the daughters of God. They married outside their faith. The children of such marriages became men of the world, since their mothers didn't not follow the commandments (they were daughter of men). And among the children of these marriages there were also giants, because that gene was there.

The sons of God where not angels that could come from heaven. At that point in the history of the earth all angels would be spirits, because there were no resurrected beings at that point. Adam was the first created with a physical body. And as you know, spirits cannot touch, eat, or drink, much less have sex. They were spirits for pits sakes. That would be an incredible story, but it is not in the scriptures and it is not true. Angels that are spirits cannot have sex, they are spirits, they cannot marry.

The nephilims are only a name given to people that were giants. This is how the Hebrew called them.

The nephilim's gene lasted until the time of David when he battled one of the last ones, Goliath.

That is what I was trying to say,

Have a great day,
mamre

 

[SonByAdoption]

Good Afternoon Mamre. I'm so glad you joined this forum.
Love it,Love it,Love it. I'm very impressed by your explanation of Nephilim. I'm definitely going to refer back to it for scripture references in the future. People always want to blame other people for their problems. No people couldn't have gotten that evil by themselves. It must be that the fallen angels had babies with the humans besides the fact that this so no where mentioned in the N.T. must be that Jesus and His disciples did not have this interpretation. I only had a couple of problems with what you said. Don't hate me too much.

An evidence of people that wanted to be like God can be seen in Genesis 5:3
"And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:"
Notice how the text stresses that Seth was in the likeness of his father (Adam) "after his image;" Were not Abel or Cain men just like Adam was? Weren't they begotten by a human being, therefore, in his likeness?

However, of Seth this is stressed indicating more then merely being of the same species. The scriptures shows that this was a son that walked righteously like his father, a man that followed the commandments of God. Furthermore, in verse 1 we read:
"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;" So the stress in verse 3 compares that Seth being begotten by Adam in his likeness, with Adam being begotten in the likeness of God; which indicates that Seth was righteous as his father Adam, and therefore he could truly be called a son of God. And there were many others that were faithful as Seth was. They were the sons and daughters of God.

I know you probably did this mistakenly and hurridly but I'm going to have to remind you something you might already know that begotten doesn't mean created. Adam was created in the image of God. He was not born from God as only one being was born from Him God's only Born Son. Adam was born from the dirt. God knelt down and molded a little clay figure of Himself and brought it to life.

You say Seth is Adam's only son followed God and not Cain or Able because He was the only one who was born in adam's image and likeness. Which is totally unbiblical by the way because Abel is mentioned so many times as being faithful. I don't think Seth or even Adam himself made it into the Great hall of faith of Hebrews 11 but I'm sure Abel is listed.

I read one time you said that God the Father has an Eternal Body and man was made in His image so I don't know why you are missing this. Wouldn't you say that Adam looked like God? So the only reason Seth is the only son listed as being begotten in Adam's image in his likeness is because Seth is his only son who looked exactly like his dad. I mean when the baby was grown ofcourse. Have you heard it said of someone that they look like a splitting image of their old man or the daughter was a splitting image of her mom. Maybe Cain and Abel took more after their mom so it couldn't be said that they were begotten in Adam's image after his likeness.

SonByAdoption,

Sorry, I can't understand anything you wrote above.
Here's what I meant:

In that time there were two types of people, those that followed the commandments of God and those that didn't.
Those that follow the commandments were known as the Sons of God as they had been given power to become such as in John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"

Those that didn't follow the commandments were simply known as men or sons and daughters of man.

The Sons of Man broke their covenants and took the daughters of men for wives instead of taking the daughters of God. They married outside their faith. The children of such marriages became men of the world, since their mothers didn't not follow the commandments (they were daughter of men). And among the children of these marriages there were also giants, because that gene was there.

The sons of God where not angels that could come from heaven. At that point in the history of the earth all angels would be spirits, because there were no resurrected beings at that point. Adam was the first created with a physical body. And as you know, spirits cannot touch, eat, or drink, much less have sex. They were spirits for pits sakes. That would be an incredible story, but it is not in the scriptures and it is not true. Angels that are spirits cannot have sex, they are spirits, they cannot marry.

The nephilims are only a name given to people that were giants. This is how the Hebrew called them.

The nephilim's gene lasted until the time of David when he battled one of the last ones, Goliath.

That is what I was trying to say,

Have a great day,
mamre

I have no idea why you don't understand what I wrote. It seems to me that we are both writing in the same language and I don't know any big college words and you can't see me printing in chicken scratch. But I will be happy to try this again.

My post was about your incorrect use of Genesis 5:3. You asked something like this "Why does the Bible say that Seth was the only son who was born in Adam's image after his likeness. Must be because he is the only one of the three sons who was following God like the Christian sons of God in the New Testament."

I said that is bad reasoning because Seth's elder brother was a very faithful believer that he is listed in the faith hall of fame in Hebrews 11 so the reason that Seth was begotten in Adam's image did not mean that Seth was faithful and the others were not as you have misconcluded.

The real reason that the Bible says that Seth was begotten in his father's image is because he was the only son who looked like his father. It doesn't take a Bible scholar to figure that out. They don't even have to know the Bible. Go up to anybody on the street and show them that Bible verse.

Haven't you ever seen a son who looks like his dad. Wouldn't you say that the this son could be said to begotten in his dad's image after his likeness. Haven't you seen that it's possible that his brothers to take after his mom.

That's what was going on in the Adam and Eve family. Able and Cain took after their mom and Seth looked like their dad.

 

[mamre]

That's what was going on in the Adam and Eve family. Able and Cain took after their mom and Seth looked like their dad.

Really? And how do you propose to show evidence of that? How do you know they took after their mom Eve? Not to offend or mock, but we don't have any picture of Eve to compare to Cain and Abel. The scriptures don't mention anything about that either. I am still very confused with your assertion. Also, I have no idea how that could be remotely important.

Anyway, have a good one.

mamre