[_ Old Earth _] Question for All Atheists.

[Deep Thought]

turnorburn.

My oh my. What a fantastical bunch of gross over generalisations.

Do you hate purple and green flying pigs?

 

[proponent]

In response to the original question, no I would not. (Side note: Why is this in Christianity and Science?) I have based my beliefs on what I understand to be logical and on what scientific evidence I have seen. The question posed is, as mentioned, Pascal's Wager, which isn't a very strong argument/idea (not really sure what to refer to it as). It seems as though the OP's understanding of atheism is fundamentally wrong. We (or at least most) atheists are not atheists to rebel, or t infuriate God. We aren't atheists to set ourselves apart. There is not reason other than a final desperate fear (besides I guess undeniable divine intervention, which I gather isn't God's way) that an atheist would come to accept God on his/her deathbed because that would mean that they weren't a true atheist, but an agnostic. Anyone who answers this question 'Yes, I would' is not an atheist.

 

[jwu]

jwu.. this is very close to the sinner prayer, but the main differences is the sincerity of the heart. If you just say these words as a cover all the bases, then No, but if you really are looking and not sure about all this stuff " the same way I was when I came to Christ" and you want to know more and try to follow his teaching yes.... death bed confessions happen all the time (I'm sure) and it is between God and the person, God knows the heart. and if it is just a cover my base just in case..

Ok, but what if it is sincere? One doesn't have to be a Christian to sincerely feel sorry about bad things that one has done, right?
The only thing the person in question is unsure about is if Jesus really died for him to wash away these mistakes/sins.
If such a person were to say the sinner's prayer as a fully convinced Christian does, then that would not be honest and a mere lip service, wouldn't it?

one more thing, I was not sure when you said "what they say about you" are to referring to atheist or christians?

Christians.

 

[Jayls5]

Just some food for thought, looks yummy doesn't it :smt045

Your choices don't qualify their either Demons or dead Prophets, but then you already knew that

Joshua S. Black, when addressing an atheist said, "For people who don't believe in God, you guys sure are paranoid about something!!" How true that is. I have known many atheists, and I have found them to be totally committed to their negative cause. They are zealots, fanatics--who are serious, angry, hateful, and blasphemous towards something they don't believe in. And what's more, they spend their time gathering fuel for the fire of their hatred for God and those that love Him. They gather what they think is legitimate fuel, whether it is atrocities committed by hypocritical religions of history, or the horrors of the Inquisition (the Catholic church torturing Christians for their faith in Jesus). They even gather unintelligent and unscientific material. It qualifies for use because it fits their presuppositions. Any fuel will do, as long at it puts smoke between them and the God they hate "without cause." It was Jonathon Miller who said, "In some awful, strange, paradoxical way, atheists tend to take religion more seriously than the practitioners." So, what is this "something" about which they are so paranoid? It is the same "something" that makes criminals paranoid, and it is that paranoia that fuels criminals to have a deep-rooted hatred for the police. It's not the individual officer they hate; it's what he stands for--civil law. And that's the root of the hatred that the atheist has for God and for those that represent Him. Once again, the Bible has said this all along. It hits the nail on its big and hard head: Romans 8:7: ". . because the mind of the flesh [with its carnal thoughts and purposes] is hostile to God, for it does not submit itself to God's Law; indeed it cannot" (Amplified Bible). They hate the morality that God's Law demands. That's the fuel for their hostility.

That question was designed to fit your assumption that atheists are all afraid of being wrong. Here are some other possibilities: They were indoctrinated at an early age and they decided it wasn't a reasonable choice. They are then bothered by the fact that their family believes without evidence, and it is declared a virtue to believe without evidence. They are bothered because faith is praised when it's for a belief that is shared, such as christianity. That same faith is not sufficient reason to be atheist (if he wanted to) and Christians THEN show great concern for using the same virtues used to establish their beliefs. Then there's the possibility that they are merely individuals who enjoy vigorously discussing a topic with those of differing opinion. As you can see, all explanations above are plausible but none involve paranoia about afterlife or anything of the sort.

 

[freeway]

"freeway01
jwu.. this is very close to the sinner prayer, but the main differences is the sincerity of the heart. If you just say these words as a cover all the bases, then No, but if you really are looking and not sure about all this stuff " the same way I was when I came to Christ" and you want to know more and try to follow his teaching yes.... death bed confessions happen all the time (I'm sure) and it is between God and the person, God knows the heart. and if it is just a cover my base just in case..

juw says: Ok, but what if it is sincere? One doesn't have to be a Christian to sincerely feel sorry about bad things that one has done, right?

Of course not, if it where only christians who feel sorry about the things in their life, it would be a hell of a world then would it not... both christians or atheist we love our children, family friends makes no difference there.... we both suffer pain and lost..

The only thing the person in question is unsure about is if Jesus really died for him to wash away these mistakes/sins.

Thats a theology question that you come to learn more about, but at the time of salvation you have a million questions, but Jesus moves past that and looks at the heart, saves the soul gives us the holy spirit to seal us and open our eyes to learn more.. but on the death bed? just like the thief on the cross next to Jesus, did he know anything about Christ, because at first both thiefs where cursing Christ, so what happen and why did he change his mind... and ask Jesus to remember him after this,, and Jesus answered " truly today you will be with me in paradise, now if that not a death bed confession I don't know what is... jwu.. don't get me wrong, churches are full of people going to hell....lip service....

If such a person were to say the sinner's prayer as a fully convinced Christian does, then that would not be honest and a mere lip service, wouldn't it?

First your not a Christian until you except Christ as your savior, so before that you are a non Christian, just like the rest weahter it atheist, buddist, muslin, whoever the case..we all at one point or another either except or denies Jesus....

 

[Guest]

Firstly I would begin by saying that I am NOT an Atheist. I just have no religion.

It would have to be a mental illness for my logic to break down and convert. I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't so what's the point? Think about it. If I don't accept Jesus and I'm right, I die, end of story. If I do and you're right, I go to heaven end up living an immortal life with god right?

Well lets just think about it. Living forever would be kinda cool for the first million years or so. I'd get super good at just about every sport known to man, I'd learn the mysteries of the universe... but what happens after that? So a million years have gone by with me in heaven and now I'm starting to run out of things to do. In fact, why do anything? There's no reason to bother, no purpose to do anything tomorow since there's always another billion years after that, and a trillion after that and a trillion after that. Immortality would rob us of all purpose and urgency in our lives, and there would be no way out. Every day you'd face the prospect of coming up with something to do for an entire eternity, with no hope of an ending.

I submit that eternal life is only the product of mortals who have gotten greedy without thinking of the repercussions. Eternal life would be no gift but perhaps the most horrific torture you could inflict upon a sentient being.

I want to live my life to be all that I can be, because one pair of hands at work accomplish more than a million clasped in prayer and I just hope that when my time comes I can be satisfied that I've left my mark on the world for the better. When I die, that's the end of the line, as much as I might not want to get off, staying on indefinitely would be a whole lot worse. Admittedly, if you're right, it doesn't really matter if I choose to convert or not since both end up in the same place, so I'd just hope that you're wrong, stay strong until the end and go out with my dignity intact. =)

 

[Deep Thought]

XolotlOfMictlan, you say you are not an atheist, so I assume you are open to the possibility of Gods?

 

[Guest]

XolotlOfMictlan, you say you are not an atheist, so I assume you are open to the possibility of Gods?

I am indeed. God has not been proven but also has not been disproven. To claim that there is absolutely no possibility in an infinite universe for a god to exist is exactly the form of blind faith Atheists claim to be opposed to.

 

[VaultZero4Me]

Lets say that you had an incurable illness and you were on your death bed, you had 10mins to live, Would you accept Jesus just in case, or would you remain against him till your final breath?

This is not a debate, just a simple question, Please answer it in complete honesty.

Ive heard that it might be that a deity is testing man kind. All atheists and agnostics go to paradise.

All religious are sent to a hell in which they are strapped to a chair in a room with a gigantic Fran Drescher who sits on a throne reading Shakespeare through a bull horn for eternity. Oh yeah, every 5 secs she bursts into random laughter in that well known irritating tone for 1,000 years straight.

Now, if you are right atheists burn. If the above correct, your fate is much worse :o

Just something to think about for the future if you are ever on your death bed.

 

[freeway]

Firstly I would begin by saying that I am NOT an Atheist. I just have no religion.

It would have to be a mental illness for my logic to break down and convert. I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't so what's the point? Think about it. If I don't accept Jesus and I'm right, I die, end of story. If I do and you're right, I go to heaven end up living an immortal life with god right?

Well lets just think about it. Living forever would be kinda cool for the first million years or so. I'd get super good at just about every sport known to man, I'd learn the mysteries of the universe... but what happens after that? So a million years have gone by with me in heaven and now I'm starting to run out of things to do. In fact, why do anything? There's no reason to bother, no purpose to do anything tomorow since there's always another billion years after that, and a trillion after that and a trillion after that. Immortality would rob us of all purpose and urgency in our lives, and there would be no way out. Every day you'd face the prospect of coming up with something to do for an entire eternity, with no hope of an ending.

I submit that eternal life is only the product of mortals who have gotten greedy without thinking of the repercussions. Eternal life would be no gift but perhaps the most horrific torture you could inflict upon a sentient being.

I want to live my life to be all that I can be, because one pair of hands at work accomplish more than a million clasped in prayer and I just hope that when my time comes I can be satisfied that I've left my mark on the world for the better. When I die, that's the end of the line, as much as I might not want to get off, staying on indefinitely would be a whole lot worse. Admittedly, if you're right, it doesn't really matter if I choose to convert or not since both end up in the same place, so I'd just hope that you're wrong, stay strong until the end and go out with my dignity intact. =)

XOM... man you sound just like me... I mean just like me back 30 years ago... wow.. don't have time right now to answer..."work"... but I'd like to answer later today..........

freeway.................... 8-) 8-)

 

[Barbarian]

All religious are sent to a hell in which they are strapped to a chair in a room with a gigantic Fran Drescher who sits on a throne reading Shakespeare through a bull horn for eternity. Oh yeah, every 5 secs she bursts into random laughter in that well known irritating tone for 1,000 years straight.

Shakespeare? Well then, it would be all right. Could do without the laughing, though.

 

[VaultZero4Me]

All religious are sent to a hell in which they are strapped to a chair in a room with a gigantic Fran Drescher who sits on a throne reading Shakespeare through a bull horn for eternity. Oh yeah, every 5 secs she bursts into random laughter in that well known irritating tone for 1,000 years straight.

Shakespeare? Well then, it would be all right. Could do without the laughing, though.

Yes, but Shakespeare with Fran Drescher reading it! Can you imagine how tortuous that would be hearing her voice during Hamlet's famous monologue? How painful it would be hearing her try to speak in early-modern english?

My point isn't to jest at anyones belief, but to colorfully examine Pascal's wager-type reasoning. Ultimately, we can't disprove an infinite number of deity/damnation scenarios (disprove my silly scenario), and with Pascal's reasoning, we are actually only 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000(fill in an infinite number zeros)1 better off.

This isn't even taking into account that said deity would know that you chose to believe only because you were afraid of damnation, and therefore not authentic. Likely, you would still be damned. Maybe even more so than the unbeliever for trying to fool the deity and yourself.

Fear of damnation is the most uncovencing argument for any belief in a deity to me.

Evidence shows that the focus on damnation by the earlier churches brought revival to the church and worshippers into the temple. Today, it seems to have the exact opposite effect.

 

[BobRyan]

Lets say that you had an incurable illness and you were on your death bed, you had 10mins to live, Would you accept Jesus just in case, or would you remain against him till your final breath?

This is not a debate, just a simple question, Please answer it in complete honesty.

John M.- bottom line is that these atheists are not kind to their fellow atheist caught in that terminal death bed scenario just as they are unkind to Christians on this board.

If you want an honest answer you have to "wait for the event" and meet them during that point in their life.

You ask in too hypothetical a context.

but there are places you can go to find atheists in just such a condition - as we all know. And there ARE people whose "job it is" to meet them there -- as we all know. Why not ask them?

As for that last line of yours "in all honesty"??? These ARE atheists you are talking to -- remember?

Bob

 

[proponent]

Lets say that you had an incurable illness and you were on your death bed, you had 10mins to live, Would you accept Jesus just in case, or would you remain against him till your final breath?


This is not a debate, just a simple question, Please answer it in complete honesty.

John M.- bottom line is that these atheists are not kind to their fellow atheist caught in that terminal death bed scenario just as they are unkind to Christians on this board.

If you want an honest answer you have to "wait for the event" and meet them during that point in their life.

You ask in too hypothetical a context.

but there are places you can go to find atheists in just such a condition - as we all know. And there ARE people whose "job it is" to meet them there -- as we all know. Why not ask them?

As for that last line of yours "in all honesty"??? These ARE atheists you are talking to -- remember?

Bob

Surely you aren't implying that atheists are incapable of telling the truth.

 

[Deep Thought]

XolotlOfMictlan, you say you are not an atheist, so I assume you are open to the possibility of Gods?

I am indeed. God has not been proven but also has not been disproven. To claim that there is absolutely no possibility in an infinite universe for a god to exist is exactly the form of blind faith Atheists claim to be opposed to.

You misunderstand what an atheist is. God can neither be proved nor dis-proved. However, that doesn't mean the odds are 50/50 for the existence or not of god/s. You need faith to believe in a god. Atheism is simply the lack of belief/faith in a god/s.

Of course there are all shades of atheists just as there are all shades of religious people, but atheists aren't under one umbrella in exactly the same way as a-unicornists aren't.

 

[Guest]

You misunderstand what an atheist is. God can neither be proved nor dis-proved. However, that doesn't mean the odds are 50/50 for the existence or not of god/s. You need faith to believe in a god. Atheism is simply the lack of belief/faith in a god/s.

Of course there are all shades of atheists just as there are all shades of religious people, but atheists aren't under one umbrella in exactly the same way as a-unicornists aren't.

My definition for an Atheism is:
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Perhaps that is just an extreme, fundamentalist approach to atheism (Definition is from Dicitionary.com), but to me it's always seemed that to be an atheist you need to actively believe that there is no god/higher being in any way state or form and no possibility for one.

You do need faith to believe in a god, but I never said that I do. I believe simply that there is a possibility for a god to exist, not that one actually does. The religious person requires faith since they are making the claim that there is 100% probability that god exists, and further that god is also their god. Neither of these claims have evidence to support them so they require faith. The atheist makes a somewhat less broad claim that there is a 100% probability that there is no god whatsoever, without supporting evidence. This also requires faith.

I simply say that since there is no evidence to back either side that there is a possibility that either of them may be right. What these possibilities are I don't profess to know. I don't hold that either side is wrong, I'm just unconvinced that either side is right.

 

[Deep Thought]

I'd say your definition of atheism is too narrow.

The atheist makes a somewhat less broad claim that there is a 100% probability that there is no god whatsoever, without supporting evidence. This also requires faith.

I don't think this is what the majority of atheists think at all. A lack of believe in something in the absence of any evidence isn't a belief or a faith, it's the default position.

All babies are born atheists, they have to be indoctrinated in order to believe in god/s.

 

[Deep Thought]

I think wikipedia has the best summary of what atheism is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#De ... stinctions

 

[BobRyan]

Lets say that you had an incurable illness and you were on your death bed, you had 10mins to live, Would you accept Jesus just in case, or would you remain against him till your final breath?


This is not a debate, just a simple question, Please answer it in complete honesty.

John M.- bottom line is that these atheists are not kind to their fellow atheist caught in that terminal death bed scenario just as they are unkind to Christians on this board.

If you want an honest answer you have to "wait for the event" and meet them during that point in their life.

You ask in too hypothetical a context.

but there are places you can go to find atheists in just such a condition - as we all know. And there ARE people whose "job it is" to meet them there -- as we all know. Why not ask them?

As for that last line of yours "in all honesty"??? These ARE atheists you are talking to -- remember?

Bob

[
Surely you aren't implying that atheists are incapable of telling the truth.

Actually I am letting this thread speak for itself on that point -- and recommending that John go to a more direct source less prone to story telling.

Bob

 

[VaultZero4Me]

For years I worked with the dying in homecare. I met many agnostics and atheists that could die at any day as well as Christians.

Now, if an unbeliever was dying and cried out to a diety, it doesn't matter. It's a non-point.

If someone did, and you get some sort of gratification or validation from it, you are weak in your own personal faith. Nor would you understand human psychology very well.