Questions about Confession

[WIP]

I actually think it’s not popular because it’s too embarrassing. The modern christian doesn’t want to humble themselves by confessing real sins they actually did. It actually says confess to ONE ANOTHER, not a priest. It’s too bad really because there is great grace released when one does.

I for one would have a very difficult time opening up and confessing everything to another member of my church. Do you think part of the problem, or even perhaps all of the problem, is that we Christians don't really take our claim to Christianity seriously as we should?

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

I actually think it’s not popular because it’s too embarrassing. The modern christian doesn’t want to humble themselves by confessing real sins they actually did. It actually says confess to ONE ANOTHER, not a priest. It’s too bad really because there is great grace released when one does.

I think the problem is trust. When someone trusts someone they are not embarrassed to speak about it. As for catholics they trust a priest so ate comfortable confessing wrongs to a priest and they not going to big mouth and gossip. I mean in general people are not embarrassed to talk to their mother or best closest friend about personal issues they know there friend is not going to go around and tell everyone and embarrass them.

 

[WIP]

I think the problem is trust. When someone trusts someone they are not embarrassed to speak about it. As for catholics they trust a priest so ate comfortable confessing wrongs to a priest and they not going to big mouth and gossip. I mean in general people are not embarrassed to talk to their mother or best closest friend about personal issues they know there friend is not going to go around and tell everyone and embarrass them.

I don't know. There are sins in my life that I don't think I could confess to my own wife much less my best friend or a member of my church. Why is that? Am I embarrassed? I am afraid she will judge me? Am I concerned that I will not be able to forgive myself?

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

I remember reading an article where the government wanted the church to snitch, but I think the church declined. I can't remember exactly. I mean like if someone confesses they done some type of criminal act then the government want to know about it and that priest come forward, but then the Church has to hold on to its value of confession and trust to its members.

 

[hawkman]

I don't know. There are sins in my life that I don't think I could confess to my own wife much less my best friend or a member of my church. Why is that? Am I embarrassed? I am afraid she will judge me? Am I concerned that I will not be able to forgive myself?

I do understand where you are coming from .

Psalms 32:5 I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

 

[Walpole]

Repeating an old post...

Throughout salvation history, God has consistently sought to extract a confession from man. For example, in the beginning, we read "Who told you that you were naked?" Or, "Where is your brother Abel?" I could go on and on throughout the pages of Scripture and salvation history.

History culminates when God actually enters into his creation by becoming Man in the person of Jesus Christ. After His death and resurrection, on the evening of Easter, our Blessed Lord appeared to the Apostles and breathes on them. (This is significant itself given it is only the second time in Scripture where God literally breathes onto man - the first being when He breathed life into Adam.) When Jesus breathes on them, He imparts on them the Holy Ghost, and then gives them the authority to forgive sins. St. John records the event as follows...

"On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, 'Peace be with you.' When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, 'Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.' And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.'” (John 20:19-23)

This is where the Christian practice of confession became a sacrament. In order for the Apostles (and their successors) to be able to forgive sins, they must first be told the sins. Hence confession, by definition, must be auricular. It has been this way from the beginning of the Church. We see this in practice in Acts when the Ephesians confess their sins to Paul in Acts 19:18. St. Paul tells the faithful at Corinth that he is charged with the "ministry of reconciliation." ( 2 Col 5:18) St. James instructs the faithful to make a confession (5:16) and St. John tells us if we confess our sins, they will be forgiven. (1 John 1:9)

In the parable of the Prodigal Son, the very first thing prodigal son does upon returning to the bosom of the Father is he makes a confession. (cf. Luke 15:21) Jesus is telling us this for a reason. Confession was practiced immediately from the Church's infancy, as testified to in the Scriptures and then in each subsequent century. (i.e. the Didache, St. Irenaeus, Origin, Tertullian, St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Basil, St. Augustine, Leo the Great, etc. etc.)

 

[Edward]

The CC has confession to a priest to keep the unity, as you stayed above that this is shafiq Jesus wanted. Interesting.

I don't know anything really about the catholic church. Me or my family were never Catholic. So I just speak from my impressions and christian teschings. And that's what I see.

 

[Edward]

I think one of the difficulties is found in how judgmental we can be. How well received would it be to honestly and truthfully confess all of our sins to another member of the Church? I'm sure most would have a difficult time hearing the confession as well as to be confessing, especially knowing the confessor. Sad to say, but we are not very good at being objective and just listening without forming an opinion.

I think you're right. But of course discretion should always be used and no one has to put out all the gory details of the confessed sin in order to to confess it in discussion with peers. Someone could confess adultrey for instance. They can just say, I committed adultrey, but they don't have to talk about, I watched her take a bath and fell in lust with her and later killed her husband.... The slightest bit of discretion in wording and details. And it doesn't matter that the opinions are not objective. I mean, isn't the very nature of opinion, subjective? I think it is, lol.

 

[WIP]

Repeating an old post...

Throughout salvation history, God has consistently sought to extract a confession from man. For example, in the beginning, we read "Who told you that you were naked?" Or, "Where is your brother Abel?" I could go on and on throughout the pages of Scripture and salvation history.

History culminates when God actually enters into his creation by becoming Man in the person of Jesus Christ. After His death and resurrection, on the evening of Easter, our Blessed Lord appeared to the Apostles and breathes on them. (This is significant itself given it is only the second time in Scripture where God literally breathes onto man - the first being when He breathed life into Adam.) When Jesus breathes on them, He imparts on them the Holy Ghost, and then gives them the authority to forgive sins. St. John records the event as follows...

"On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, 'Peace be with you.' When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, 'Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.' And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.'” (John 20:19-23)

This is where the Christian practice of confession became a sacrament. In order for the Apostles (and their successors) to be able to forgive sins, they must first be told the sins. Hence confession, by definition, must be auricular. It has been this way from the beginning of the Church. We see this in practice in Acts when the Ephesians confess their sins to Paul in Acts 19:18. St. Paul tells the faithful at Corinth that he is charged with the "ministry of reconciliation." ( 2 Col 5:18) St. James instructs the faithful to make a confession (5:16) and St. John tells us if we confess our sins, they will be forgiven. (1 John 1:9)

In the parable of the Prodigal Son, the very first thing prodigal son does upon returning to the bosom of the Father is he makes a confession. (cf. Luke 15:21) Jesus is telling us this for a reason. Confession was practiced immediately from the Church's infancy, as testified to in the Scriptures and then in each subsequent century. (i.e. the Didache, St. Irenaeus, Origin, Tertullian, St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Basil, St. Augustine, Leo the Great, etc. etc.)

During our worship services, I personally try to take the time to humbly make a confession to God Himself, recalling my sins as best I can remember and ask for forgiveness knowing that He is faithful to forgive my sins and cleanse me. Then, when receiving the Eucharist, I make it a point to remember and thank Jesus for that great and awesome sacrifice He has made on my behalf.

 

[WIP]

I think you're right. But of course discretion should always be used and no one has to put out all the gory details of the confessed sin in order to to confess it in discussion with peers. Someone could confess adultrey for instance. They can just say, I committed adultrey, but they don't have to talk about, I watched her take a bath and fell in lust with her and later killed her husband.... The slightest bit of discretion in wording and details. And it doesn't matter that the opinions are not objective. I mean, isn't the very nature of opinion, subjective? I think it is, lol.

And that has happened on occasion. I have made a similar confession to my fellow church members but not necessarily for the purpose of confessing but instead of making a point about how I am just as sinful as anyone else. I think that's different from what God wants from us.

It is therapeutic to confess to someone. It seems to help us unload a burden that we have been carrying. Isn't this why Jesus said, "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." Matthew 11:28-29 NKJV

 

[GodsGrace]

Ezra 9:5-6
But at the evening offering I arose from my humiliation, even with my garment and my robe torn, and I fell on my knees and stretched out my hands to the Lord my God; and I said, “O my God, I am ashamed and embarrassed to lift up my face to You, my God, for our iniquities have risen above our heads and our guilt has grown even to the heavens.

Ezra 10:11
Now therefore, make confession to the Lord God of your fathers and do His will; and separate yourselves from the peoples of the land and from the foreign wives.”

Nehemiah 1:6
let Your ear now be attentive and Your eyes open to hear the prayer of Your servant which I am praying before You now, day and night, on behalf of the sons of Israel Your servants, confessing the sins of the sons of Israel which we have sinned against You; I and my father’s house have sinned.

Daniel 9:4
I prayed to the Lord my God and confessed and said, “Alas, O Lord, the great and awesome God, who keeps His covenant and lovingkindness for those who love Him and keep His commandments,

Daniel 9:20
Now while I was speaking and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God in behalf of the holy mountain of my God,

IMO it was part of the greater authority that was given them:

Matthew 16:19
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”

That does NOT mean (as some pentecostals believe) that it has anything to do with binding up the devil. Those (binding and loosing) were common theological terms of the day. The rabbis and pharisees would all come up with their own methods of helping the common man to not break the Law of Moses. The name for that was Halicha. It referred to how you would walk. If a specific act was permitted, it was said to be "loosed." If it was forbidden, it was said to be "bound."

And if a provision in any rabbi's halicha would seem to make the follower fulfill the Law, it was "establishing the Law;" conversely if it would lead one to break the Law, it was said to "destroy the Law."

This "binding and loosing" was the authority to write the New Testament, and to establish what was and was not sinful under the New Covenant. Retaining or forgiving sins would be a part of that greater authority.

Thanks D...
OK the OT states to confess to God, which is what I believe to be correct.
I also do understand about the binding and loosing, although it states that whatever is loosed ON EARTH will be loosed in HEAVEN...it seems that the Apostles have total authority to decide about matters. Matthew 16:19
IOW, it seems to me that it should be loosed in heaven first, and then carried out on earth. Is it right that the pharisee should decide what is forbidden or not? I guess they followed the rules of Moses?
You explained it very well, BTW.

You say above that John 20 was part of a greater authority.
Are you saying that the Apostles did have the authority to forgive sin?

The early church did state that we had to ask forgiveness for sins,
but it doesn't really say HOW in any of the "letters" I've read.
Not even in the Didache.

 

[GodsGrace]

And that has happened on occasion. I have made a similar confession to my fellow church members but not necessarily for the purpose of confessing but instead of making a point about how I am just as sinful as anyone else. I think that's different from what God wants from us.

It is therapeutic to confess to someone. It seems to help us unload a burden that we have been carrying. Isn't this why Jesus said, "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." Matthew 11:28-29 NKJV

I said the above in a post, I think here, a few pages ago.
I also said that this can only be done in a very mature church and where members know each other well.
I, personally, would have difficulty in doing this. I just don't trust people enough I think.
But if we go to God, we cannot go wrong, and I think this is what our Lord would want.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I think the problem is trust. When someone trusts someone they are not embarrassed to speak about it. As for catholics they trust a priest so ate comfortable confessing wrongs to a priest and they not going to big mouth and gossip. I mean in general people are not embarrassed to talk to their mother or best closest friend about personal issues they know their friend is not going to go around and tell everyone and embarrass them.

I do agree that trust is an issue, but I think people have the tendency to be proud. Confession of sins committed is humbling. Probably it is to be done when the Holy Spirit asks a person to do so.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I for one would have a very difficult time opening up and confessing everything to another member of my church. Do you think part of the problem, or even perhaps all of the problem, is that we Christians don't really take our claim to Christianity seriously as we should?

Absolutely!! That really hits the nail on the head. The whole process of being a Christian is taken less seriously than committing oneself in marriage or joining a club. You just need to say a few words “inviting Jesus into your heart” without even admitting any sin at all. So why should what follows be life changing?

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

According the the scripture Christ is High Priest and Mediator between man and God to confess and repent.

Saying that scripture also says confess to each other, but that takes trust. And the church is fragmented.

I mean some people confess on this site there issues. I don't judge someone who's humble and admits there mistakes or they done wrong. That takes courage and they reaching out for support. That's a good thing.

 

[D-D-W]

Thanks D...
OK the OT states to confess to God, which is what I believe to be correct.

You are welcome.

I also do understand about the binding and loosing, although it states that whatever is loosed ON EARTH will be loosed in HEAVEN...it seems that the Apostles have total authority to decide about matters. Matthew 16:19

Indeed. Very few actually understand that, as one must read the first and 2nd century rabbinic literature to see what was being said. Yes, the Apostles had a LOT of authority.

IOW, it seems to me that it should be loosed in heaven first, and then carried out on earth. Is it right that the pharisee should decide what is forbidden or not?

Seems that way but that is not how our Lord put it. Earth first and Heaven would back it up.

You explained it very well, BTW.

You say above that John 20 was part of a greater authority.
Are you saying that the Apostles did have the authority to forgive sin?

Yes.

The early church did state that we had to ask forgiveness for sins,
but it doesn't really say HOW in any of the "letters" I've read.
Not even in the Didache.

I am not sure there was any kind of specific format for that. What I do know is the RCC weaponized it to control people.

 

[GodsGrace]

You are welcome.

Indeed. Very few actually understand that, as one must read the first and 2nd century rabbinic literature to see what was being said. Yes, the Apostles had a LOT of authority.

Seems that way but that is not how our Lord put it. Earth first and Heaven would back it up.

Yes.

I am not sure there was any kind of specific format for that. What I do know is the RCC weaponized it to control people.

I have read the Early Church Fathers and that clears up a lot of questions - at least for me.
Some tell me they're not inspired and they won't pay any attention to them, but they learned from the Apostles so I tend to believe what they wrote.

If the Apostles had a lot of authority, as the CC claims and does sound to be true from Matthew and also your Jewish readings, then maybe the CC is right about confessing to a priest?

I have reasons why I don't think it's necessary and the reasons are historical.
Confession changed from one century to another until it came to be what it is today.

I don't believe the intent was to weaponize it to control people, but it certainly did end up doing that in the "dark ages".

This is why I say that the reformation was necessary, but I'm very sorry that it was.

 

[D-D-W]

I have read the Early Church Fathers and that clears up a lot of questions - at least for me.
Some tell me they're not inspired and they won't pay any attention to them, but they learned from the Apostles so I tend to believe what they wrote.

I question anything written after 135 ad; as that is when the ECFs decided to distance themselves from anything that Rome would consider Jewish. It actually muddied up the water rather than clearing things up.

If the Apostles had a lot of authority, as the CC claims and does sound to be true from Matthew and also your Jewish readings, then maybe the CC is right about confessing to a priest?

I have no problem with confessing to a priest, pastor, elder, etc. What I have a problem with is saying ordained clergy are the ONLY ones you are to confess to.

I don't believe the intent was to weaponize it to control people, but it certainly did end up doing that in the "dark ages".

Agreed.

This is why I say that the reformation was necessary, but I'm very sorry that it was.

The Reformation was important on a number of fronts as it started to reverse the progression away from what had been in the first century. Interesting that 2 of the first things to go were the Jewishness of the Church and the power of the Holy Spirit, both of which started being restored in the 20th century.

 

[GodsGrace]

I question anything written after 135 ad; as that is when the ECFs decided to distance themselves from anything that Rome would consider Jewish. It actually muddied up the water rather than clearing things up.

I'm willing to go to 325AD, the council of Nicea.
I'll tell you why. I think 135AD is too soon.

In 135AD those that were taught by the Apostles were still alive, not all of them....

The early church spent a lot of time fighting heresies and could not concentrate on creating doctrine, or clarifying it I should say.

Information travelled slowly.

Also we do have to admit that the ECFs did not distance themselves first. The Christians were too different and were not desired in the synagogue.

Comments?

I have no problem with confessing to a priest, pastor, elder, etc. What I have a problem with is saying ordained clergy are the ONLY ones you are to confess to.

Agreed.

The Reformation was important on a number of fronts as it started to reverse the progression away from what had been in the first century. Interesting that 2 of the first things to go were the Jewishness of the Church and the power of the Holy Spirit, both of which started being restored in the 20th century.

The reformation removed belief in the power of the Holy Spirit?
I never heard this.

 

[jasonc]

James tells us to confess our sins one to another and pray for each other. James 5:16 Most protestants reject the clear instruction of scripture because it appears "too catholic."

An interesting topic for sure but Off Topic in the discussion of communion. Another thread perhaps?

Not mine but use wisdom ,find a good honest person that you can trust .

But no,these can't absolve ones sins.