Questions about Mk 3, 11-12, please

[gordon777]

I noticed a lot of answers seemed to consider the timing Christ was doing.

That's fine, except that Jesus cant hide where He is from, because the Nazarites made themselves separate unto the Lord. ( Christ separate from sinners became us. Hebrews 7:26.)

Moses and the prophets did write of, Jesus of Nazareth. Christ dwelt in Nazareth to fulfil what was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

After Christ was risen up, He used His name as Jesus of Nazareth speaking to Paul.




Numbers 6:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the Lord:

John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Matthew 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

Acts 22:8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.




But why did Jesus not commit Himself to men ? Because Jesus knows what is in man ( the devil)

Then Jesus tells these same men, to believe in the light, but then hid Himself from them ( the Jews/Pharisees) as He had done so many miracles, but they still could never believe on Him. ( the timing was then never.)

The arm of the Lord was not revealed to them, they could not believe the report, their eyes were blinded ( light came to the Gentiles)

Many still believed, but they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.




John 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

John 12:36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.


Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

 

[eddif]

2 Corinthians 13:1 kjv
1. This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Deuteronomy 19:15
15. One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

Why these verses? Because each thing about about Jesus had to be established by two or three witnesses.

1, His Father (at least 2 or 3 witnesses)
2. His mother. “
3. His conception “
4. His tribe
5. His town
6. The stars position
7. His birth
8. His trip to Egypt to avoid death
9. His vocation
10. His need of John the Baptist
11. His Disciples
12. His healings
13. his miracles
14. His persecutions

On and on
So the number of witnesses are huge

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

You get into the same thing for each time a witness appears
Moses and Arron each having 2 or 3 witnesses
Elizabeth and Mary
It just goes on and on
There are Jewish witnesses
Kings that are witnesses
Places that are mentioned

So do not be surprised at the things each person sees as we go through scripture. One person may see just 1
Another person 2

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hi, everyone
I used to behave as a rather strict disciple of truth, and was troubled by this piece of scripture, for i interpreted it as an antithesis of my belief that every truth is a good thing to say. D'you know, please, whether this will of Jesus to keep secret his identity was intended :

• to respect some chronology for something more useful at a later date
• Not to reveal it to the disciples, for it would be barren to learn it from a possessed person, since that must become their creed
• for any other reason

d'you know, as well, since it seems the will of Jesus was to hide a truth, what distinguishes, for christian people, a good from a bad truth to say ?

Less about timing than about the source, IMO. No one among men knew He was the Son of God yet, but the demons did. What, then, would men have said if demons were the only ones revealing it ahead of schedule? That it was a doctrine of demons, and not to be received. Hence why Jesus commanded they be silent.

 

[quell101]

Hi, everyone
I used to behave as a rather strict disciple of truth, and was troubled by this piece of scripture, for i interpreted it as an antithesis of my belief that every truth is a good thing to say. D'you know, please, whether this will of Jesus to keep secret his identity was intended :

• to respect some chronology for something more useful at a later date
• Not to reveal it to the disciples, for it would be barren to learn it from a possessed person, since that must become their creed
• for any other reason

d'you know, as well, since it seems the will of Jesus was to hide a truth, what distinguishes, for christian people, a good from a bad truth to

Hi, everyone
I used to behave as a rather strict disciple of truth, and was troubled by this piece of scripture, for i interpreted it as an antithesis of my belief that every truth is a good thing to say. D'you know, please, whether this will of Jesus to keep secret his identity was intended :

• to respect some chronology for something more useful at a later date
• Not to reveal it to the disciples, for it would be barren to learn it from a possessed person, since that must become their creed
• for any other reason

d'you know, as well, since it seems the will of Jesus was to hide a truth, what distinguishes, for christian people, a good from a bad truth to say


Hi, so what basically is your question ..?

 

[D-D-W]

Less about timing than about the source, IMO. No one among men knew He was the Son of God yet, but the demons did. What, then, would men have said if demons were the only ones revealing it ahead of schedule? That it was a doctrine of demons, and not to be received. Hence why Jesus commanded they be silent.

But that was not the only time He said that.

After healing a leper:
Matthew 8:4
And Jesus said to him, “See that you tell no one; but go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.”

After revealing His Messiahship to the disciples:
Matthew 16:20
Then He warned the disciples that they should tell no one that He was the Christ.

After raising a young girl from death:
Luke 8:56
Her parents were amazed; but He instructed them to tell no one what had happened.

All of these were early on in His ministry. And none involved demons. He instructed the PEOPLE to not tell.

 

[eddif]

But that was not the only time He said that.

After healing a leper:
Matthew 8:4
And Jesus said to him, “See that you tell no one; but go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.”

After revealing His Messiahship to the disciples:
Matthew 16:20
Then He warned the disciples that they should tell no one that He was the Christ.

After raising a young girl from death:
Luke 8:56
Her parents were amazed; but He instructed them to tell no one what had happened.

All of these were early on in His ministry. And none involved demons. He instructed the PEOPLE to not tell.

I agree.

If Jesus could keep the number of agreeing reports under 2 he had a better chance of being at the right time and place for his crucifixion and death.

The Jewish leadership tried to get false witnesses to testify against Jesus, but their stories did not agree.

eddif

 

[Hidden In Him]

But that was not the only time He said that.

I know.

All of these were early on in His ministry. And none involved demons. He instructed the PEOPLE to not tell.

But on this occasion he was instructing demons. I do believe Jesus didn't want it revealed yet, but this was especially the case with it coming from demons, which is the passage he was asking about. For demons to be speaking it presented even bigger problems IMO, for they are known to speak truth one minute and lies the next.

I suppose some could say they would have added greater credibility to the claim He was Divine, but the testimony of demons is exceedingly untrustworthy, and would have only clouded the issue.

After healing a leper:
Matthew 8:4
And Jesus said to him, “See that you tell no one; but go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.”

After revealing His Messiahship to the disciples:
Matthew 16:20
Then He warned the disciples that they should tell no one that He was the Christ.

After raising a young girl from death:
Luke 8:56
Her parents were amazed; but He instructed them to tell no one what had happened.

We agree when it comes to the above verses, but I think there was even more to it when it comes to the verse asked about in the OP. I once read a deliverance minister teach that it is unwise to let demons talk very much, about anything.

 

[WIP]

When a poster says that some were good points ( in answer to the OP's questions) then some more good points ( in answer to the OP's questions again) is and was focusing on answering the OP's questions, and cant be focused on arguments, on other persons responses.

otherwise how would one ever be able to answer questions, without keeping focus on what the scriptures reveal of how Christ dealt with the Jews, and the Gentiles, in both an unknown, unreceived way, and then in a way the Gentiles could, it is this way again. ( between the Gentiles, and between the Jews.)

I am answering this here for the benefit of everyone.

This forum is specifically set up to answer questions and not cloud those answers by dragging the discussion into a debate among other members of this site. Imagine walking into a room and asking a question. Instead of answering your question, those in the room ignore you and begin debating the topic you introduced. That would not be of any value to you but rather would tend to push you out of the room.

If you want to debate with others in this forum, we ask that you leave the room and take your discussion elsewhere in the building, so-to-speak. That is the rule we have set up for this Questions and Answers forum.

 

[gordon777]

This question seems empty of answer now. So there is room for more answers.


The greatest answer why Jesus Christ did not seek to be known back then, is the same as now.


It was an evil adulterous generation:




Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Matthew 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.




I am using the same quotes of Matthew, Mark, and Luke as above for that evil generation ( and why Jesus made sure He gave them no signs, to not make Himself revealed or known to them. John 12:38.)

Here, Matthew, Mark and Luke speak of this other generation...




Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mark 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.




It is the very same generation, ( evil) which has many offenders, betraying one another, hating one another, and many false prophets rising to deceive many. The love of many waxes cold, because iniquity abounds ( wicked evil generation is back.)

Clearly, the same way the arm of the Lord was not revealed to Israel, i is not revealed to the whole world right now. ( at this ending time.)



Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

 

[Camboie]

I am answering this here for the benefit of everyone.

This forum is specifically set up to answer questions and not cloud those answers by dragging the discussion into a debate among other members of this site. Imagine walking into a room and asking a question. Instead of answering your question, those in the room ignore you and begin debating the topic you introduced. That would not be of any value to you but rather would tend to push you out of the room.

If you want to debate with others in this forum, we ask that you leave the room and take your discussion elsewhere in the building, so-to-speak. That is the rule we have set up for this Questions and Answers forum.

To everyone : Sorry for my silence

To WIP : I'm grateful for your intervening.
I suppose it's intended for the sake of my question.
May be is it also intended to ensure a good fellowship between the members.
As for me, i believe the issue i raised in this thread is one of those that may bring about some kind of debate, for it is truth-centered.
I think indeed truth often divides people, as something they try to remain "owner" of.
I assume it's because truth stirs enthusiasm among those who look for it.
Therefore, in a certain way, the rule of this forum seems to me a frustrating challenge.
But we all accepted it. So that i gonna try and ask questions with a Y/N answers only possible
Thank you

 

[WIP]

To everyone : Sorry for my silence

To WIP : I'm grateful for your intervening.
I suppose it's intended for the sake of my question.
May be is it also intended to ensure a good fellowship between the members.
As for me, i believe the issue i raised in this thread is one of those that may bring about some kind of debate, for it is truth-centered.
I think indeed truth often divides people, as something they try to remain "owner" of.
I assume it's because truth stirs enthusiasm among those who look for it.
Therefore, in a certain way, the rule of this forum seems to me a frustrating challenge.
But we all accepted it. So that i gonna try and ask questions with a Y/N answers only possible
Thank you

My purpose was to follow the rules of this forum.

I guess if your intention was to allow for dissenting views for debate, then the discussion should have been started in a different forum such as the Biblical Growth and Study forum, perhaps. I can move it if that is your preference.

We created this forum as a place where anyone, Christian and non-Christian alike, can ask questions about our faith, get answers from CFnet Christians, and not feel pressured to put up a theological defense. Some people are not confident enough to give a defense and this is a place we want to offer for them. They can always ask for more clarification if they wish.

Hope this helps explain the purpose of this forum.

 

[Camboie]

Less about timing than about the source, IMO. No one among men knew He was the Son of God yet, but the demons did. What, then, would men have said if demons were the only ones revealing it ahead of schedule? That it was a doctrine of demons, and not to be received. Hence why Jesus commanded they be silent.

Hi,
You make me wonder whether besides time, whose Jesus paid attention to, it was not his intention as well to be condemned by the High Priest, namely by he that embodied moral and religious authority.
It could explain then why Jesus minded time, in order to become a revealing sign that would act as a mirror to reflect what lies in man, and this, by aiming at the High Priest.
Indeed, in human hierarchies, leaders are often last to stick out their necks.

 

[Camboie]

I guess if your intention was to allow for dissenting views for debate, then the discussion should have been started in a different forum such as the Biblical Growth and Study forum, perhaps. I can move it if that is your preference.

Yes please, thank you

 

[Camboie]

All of these were early on in His ministry. And none involved demons. He instructed the PEOPLE to not tell.

True. which turns my initial question more general

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hi,
You make me wonder whether besides time, which Jesus paid attention to, it was not his intention as well to be condemned by the High Priest, namely by he that embodied moral and religious authority.

It's possible, yes. There was a teaching in NT times called "redeeming the time" (i.e. buying time). It was just another way of saying that Christians needed to buy as much time as possible by making wise decisions, and not offending anyone unnecessarily.

 

[Camboie]

How about this?

This is a no-debate forum and special rules apply:

1. Any member can start a thread but the thread must take the form of a question.
2. Only Christians are allowed to post replies to the thread.
3. Replies of dissention or disagreement must be addressed to the Original Poster (that is the person who started the thread).
4. Members who are not the Original Poster must not address other members in the thread.
5. If there is a difference of opinion or belief among the members in a thread, each member has the responsibility to present their views to the Original Poster so that the Original Poster may consider the differences and ask for clarification as needed.

The intention is to provide a relaxed atmosphere for asking questions without being concerned about defending one's position or viewpoint. Obviously, not everyone will agree with the answers but this is not the forum for debating those differences.

For me, it's ok, WIP. Please i answered you to flip this thread from this forum to another more relevant for debate. Could you proceed ?

 

[Camboie]

It's possible, yes. There was a teaching in NT times called "redeeming the time" (i.e. buying time). It was just another way of saying that Christians needed to buy as much time as possible by making wise decisions, and not offending anyone unnecessarily.

To HIH :
Could you give please the reference of this scripture ? Reminds me of the foolish and wise virgins..

To everyone, about this :

It could explain then why Jesus minded time, in order to become a revealing sign that would act as a mirror to reflect what lies in man, and this, by aiming at the High Priest.
Indeed, in human hierarchies, leaders are often last to stick out their necks.

Would truth have been comprehensivly revealed, hadn't the High Priest been involved in crucifixion ?

 

[Camboie]

I am right once a day at least , lol . We as Christians know NOT to try and communicate with anything of the demonic realm, that includes trying to communicate with the dead . The lost of this world will be the ones talking to demonic if so inclined to communicate with the spirit world . It is not their dead ancestors they will hear speak but it will be demons . So I am saying if you invite the demonic to speak to you there is a possibility you will hear them speak . Do demons talk to people now ? Yes and it is more regular than we want to know about .

Bible verses about talking to the dead

I think it was about the demons speaking to people . My idea on that is all of the demonic realm already knew who Jesus is .

I agree with this .

All of the demonic realm is a Christians enemy and I try to learn as much as I can about my enemy and their tactics .

May be what you say is another thruth Christ's death revealed

 

[gordon777]

Light came to Israel, ( the darkness could not comprehend what light is. John 1:5.)

Even though all the miracles Jesus did confirmed He was that light, nobody was able to believe in Him, to fulfil who believed the report of the Lord ?

To whim was the arm of the Lord revealed, when their eyes are blinded and their hearts hardened) the new covenant is God taking the stony heart our and replacing with a heart of flesh.) then they would not be converted and healed.

Faith comes by hearing ( this testimony) and even though the sound went into all the earth, it was also testified all the day long the Lord had stretched His hand out to a disobedient gainsaying people( Israel.)




John 12:36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.




NOW look at Mark 3 for CONTEXT.

Christ did miracles in front of Israel, they had those hardened hearts( which is why they could never believe in Christ)

The Pharisees we are told, took counsel against Christ, how they could destroy Him. ( JESUS WITHDREW HIMSELF FROM THEM.)






Mark 3:5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.
6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.
7 But Jesus withdrew himself with his disciples to the sea: and a great multitude from Galilee followed him, and from Judaea,





Knowing now that Christ cant be known by Israels hardened hearts, and in fact they wanted to murder Him for these miracles, it is very easy to see why the people are charged by Christ to not make Him known.



Mark 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
12 And he straitly charged them that they should not make him known.