Bible Study rapture to second coming how long time in between `?

[Rollo Tamasi]

Not in this forum

 

[Chopper]

None of the rapture teaching existed anywhere before the 19th century. Prior to 1830, no church taught a pre-tribulation rapture (Or mid or post) in their creed, catechism or statement of faith.

One wonders, if this teaching is so important, why didn't the church know about this for over 1700 years?
Why didn't any of the earliest writers of the church ever mention it?
If no one from the apostolic age until 1830 taught it then is it truly Christian doctrine or just another "wind of doctrine?

This new innovation is based on one passage.
1Th 4:15-17 (RSV) For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Note the words "the coming of the Lord." At the time when Paul was writing and up until Darby's new teaching, those words referred to the second coming of Christ to establish the eternal reign of God on earth. No one from the days of the apostles until John Darby taught that there would be a "third coming" as is necessary for the "rapture" teaching.

The image of being caught up to meet the Lord in the air reflects the culture of the 1st century Greco-Roman world. When a king or a conquering general or an important dignitary visited a city, the population would go out to meet him and escort him into the city. It was the 1st century equivalent of a "ticker-tape" parade.

The teaching has been made very popular in a segment of American Protestant churches and many books, tapes, dvds have been produced explaining exactly when what will happen. Visiting evangelists and TV ministries will show their charts and explain it in great detail. But, I ask, to what purpose? The question Jesus asked was, "When the son of man returns, will he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8b) He asked that question because all the wonderful knowledge of what and when and where won't mean diddly-squat if the Lord returns and I'm not diligently doing "the good works, which God prepared beforehand" (Eph 2:10) that I should be doing.

It is a matter of great concern for me that so many preachers and teachers emphasize the importance of this kind of "knowledge" while at the same time railing against everything that involves anything that looks like what they call "salvation by works."

Following is what Jesus said. I ask that you consider which is is worthy of greater emphasis in teaching and preaching; Jesus' teaching or Darby's teaching.

John 5:28-29 (NKJV)… the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Jesus expanded on that statement at Mat 25:31-46 (NKJV) When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

Then the King will say to those on His right hand, “Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.

Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, “Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?”

And the King will answer and say to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.”

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, “Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.”

Then they also will answer Him, saying, “Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?”

Then He will answer them, saying, “Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.”

And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Choose carefully, my friend.


iakov the fool 2

What you say is true Jim. I don't refer to the 1 Thessalonians 4 passage as the Rapture. That is the second coming text. I'm referring to the Revelation 3 text. If the early Church didn't tackle the truth of the Rapture, that was their problem and loss.

 

[Jim Parker]

I'm referring to the Revelation 3 text.

There is nothing in Rev. 3 that says Jesus is going to come and snatch the church off the earth. Rev. 3 has admonitions to specific churches which may be universally applied but there is absolutely nothing of the rapture in it. Anything of the rapture has to be inserted into it.

If the early Church didn't tackle the truth of the Rapture, that was their problem and loss.

It is completely illogical to assume that NOT ONE PERSON of the church, for one thousand seven hundred years, said ANYTHING about the rapture because EVERY ONE of them missed it.
We're talking about tens of thousands of people who devoted their lives to learning and teaching the scriptures.
They didn't miss anything.
It was not taught by the apostles.
It was not taught by Jesus.
It is 100% the invention of John Darby.
It is a distraction from the essential teaching of the Gospel.
It is a heresy and has no place in the teaching of any Christian church.

 

[Chopper]

It's very simple.

Why would God need to "keep" (guard, protect) someone if they were in heaven?

The "keeping" would be here on earth where the danger is.

Just as He "kept" Noa, and Daniel, and the three Hebrew children, while here on earth.

Do you feel that there will be a need to "keep" folks in heaven?


JLB

I think you miss the point, they are kept from the tribulation.

 

[Chopper]

He is a very simple, easy to understand scripture, that Paul teaches us about the Rapture.



The Resurrection takes place before the Rapture at the coming of the Lord.

Both the resurrected ones and the raptured ones are caught up together, to meet the Lord in the air.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:17

Again please just read these very plain and clear words from Paul about this subject of His coming and the rapture.

The dead in Christ and those who are alive and remain will both be caught up together.

That is all of His people caught up together, at His coming.


This verse 17 defines all those who are His.


JLB

If that's what you believe? Wonderful.

 

[Jim Parker]

I think you miss the point, they are kept from the tribulation.

Jhn 16:33b (RSV) In the world you have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."
That's Jesus' disciples who will have tribulation.

Mat 24:2-22 (RSV) For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
The "elect" go through that tribulation "as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

Mat 24:29-31 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken; then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory; and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus, the Son of Man, comes AFTER that tribulation to gather His elect.
The "elect" go through the tribulation.

 

[JLB]

If that's what you believe? Wonderful.

The dead in Christ who are resurrected, and those who are alive and remain who are raptured, are all caught up together, at His Coming.

That's all those who are His, caught up together with Him in the clouds.

How could anyone not believe this.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17


Please tell me what you disagree with.

The dead in Christ resurrected, and the raptured ones. All.

Paul says the same thing to the Corinthians.


20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the first-fruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the first-fruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

...those who are Christ’s at His coming.


These are the resurrected ones who will rise first, then those who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them.

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:51


All those who are Christ's will be raised together, whether alive or dead, all shall be caught up together, and all shall be changed...
at His coming.



JLB

 

[JLB]

I think you miss the point, they are kept from the tribulation.

Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name. Revelation 3:10-12


Brother if the Lord had promised to keep them from the hour of trial, that is a promise to protect and guard them from the hour of trial.

No where does this mention God will remove them from the earth.
No where does this mention the great tribulation.

I think you know that this was written to actual Churches during the time John was alive.


There is no such "select special group" of Christians that will be raptured before all the rest.


All will be caught up together in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.

There just is no one else in the equation of caught up together.

The Rapture and Resurrection is one event.

There is no measurable amount of time in between the resurrection and rapture, and all those who are His will be caught up together.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17


For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the first-fruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:22-23



JLB

 

[Chopper]

The dead in Christ who are resurrected, and those who are alive and remain who are raptured, are all caught up together, at His Coming.

That's all those who are His, caught up together with Him in the clouds.

How could anyone not believe this.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17


Please tell me what you disagree with.

The dead in Christ resurrected, and the raptured ones. All.

Paul says the same thing to the Corinthians.


20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the first-fruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the first-fruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

...those who are Christ’s at His coming.


These are the resurrected ones who will rise first, then those who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them.

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:51


All those who are Christ's will be raised together, whether alive or dead, all shall be caught up together, and all shall be changed...
at His coming.



JLB

What you are saying is absolutely true.... "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:17....There will be, at the half way point (3 1/2 years) of the tribulation, a large amount of folk who have believed on Jesus in spite of the terrible persecution and destruction because of the judgment of Almighty God on the wicked. These saved ones will be gathered to Jesus just as you say. The events of their gathering will be....

2Thessalonians 2:1 "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,
2:2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2:4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God."....So, "That day" is what you are referring to in 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

What I believe, and what I believe that you are not seeing is the "Bride" of Christ Jesus. Neither the Bride nor the Elect before the foundations of the world[URL='http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/1%20Thess%204.17'] are among the Believers in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. Because of their faithfulness to the Commands of Jesus, and their steadfast walk in the Spirit during their time on earth, their reward will be the gathering of them to Jesus before the tribulation's seven year judgement according to Jesus' promise to the Church at Philadelphia....
[URL='http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/1%20Thess%204.17']Revelation 3:10 "Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth."....That my friend is referring to the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period called Jacob's trouble or the great tribulation.

Please my old friend, can't you see a remnant of lovers of God who, for the best of their abilities, love Jesus? They aren't perfect, but they attempt every day to obey Christ's Commands because they love Him and He loves them. Just like Jeremiah....

Jeremiah 1:4 "Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations."....So, just like Jeremiah, God before the foundations of the world were laid, chose a remnant of men to be saved and to faithfully follow Him just like the Church at Philadelphia....

Ephesians 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
1:5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will."

To the best of my ability, and with the aid of the Holy Spirit, I have attempted to explain our differences. Actually, what differences we have in our personal theology pale in comparison to the love in Christ we have for each other. I want you to know that, in my heart, I honor you because of your steadfast defense of what you are convicted of.


That's our difference. The Elect Bride of Christ, has to be kept separate from the Church at large. The Bride is a part of the Church of Jesus Christ but not the whole.[/URL][/URL]

 

[JLB]

What you are saying is absolutely true.... "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:17....There will be, at the half way point (3 1/2 years) of the tribulation, a large amount of folk who have believed on Jesus in spite of the terrible persecution and destruction because of the judgment of Almighty God on the wicked. These saved ones will be gathered to Jesus just as you say. The events of their gathering will be....

2Thessalonians 2:1 "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,
2:2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2:4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God."....So, "That day" is what you are referring to in 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

What I believe, and what I believe that you are not seeing is the "Bride" of Christ Jesus. Neither the Bride nor the Elect before the foundations of the world are among the Believers in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. Because of their faithfulness to the Commands of Jesus, and their steadfast walk in the Spirit during their time on earth, their reward will be the gathering of them to Jesus before the tribulation's seven year judgement according to Jesus' promise to the Church at Philadelphia....
Revelation 3:10 "Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth."....That my friend is referring to the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period called Jacob's trouble or the great tribulation.

Please my old friend, can't you see a remnant of lovers of God who, for the best of their abilities, love Jesus? They aren't perfect, but they attempt every day to obey Christ's Commands because they love Him and He loves them. Just like Jeremiah....

Jeremiah 1:4 "Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations."....So, just like Jeremiah, God before the foundations of the world were laid, chose a remnant of men to be saved and to faithfully follow Him just like the Church at Philadelphia....

Ephesians 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
1:5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will."

To the best of my ability, and with the aid of the Holy Spirit, I have attempted to explain our differences. Actually, what differences we have in our personal theology pale in comparison to the love in Christ we have for each other. I want you to know that, in my heart, I honor you because of your steadfast defense of what you are convicted of.


That's our difference. The Elect Bride of Christ, has to be kept separate from the Church at large. The Bride is a part of the Church of Jesus Christ but not the whole.

Brother, please address the simple topic that is directly related to the OP, as I quoted Paul' letter to the Thessalonians that is about the Rapture and Resurrection, in which he encompasses all of the Lord's people, whether alive or dead they are all covered in the Rapture and Resurrection.

No matter what label you place on them they, Church, Bride, Israel, Body of Christ, New Jerusalem...

All shall be changed, all shall be made alive, at His Coming.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:17

This refers to the Resurrection/Rapture.

Are you teaching us the Bride doesn't get Raptured?

Are you teaching that no one who has died is of the Bride Group.

If anyone who is of the Bride Group had died, then they will be Resurrected here in the resurrection.

If any of the Bride Group is still alive at His coming then they will be Raptured here at the Rapture.



JLB

 

[reba]

Discussion not debate

 

[Jim Parker]

According to scripture, there are only two groups of people. Those who are "Blessed of the Father" (Mat 25:34) and those who are "cursed." (Mat 25:41)

This modern Christian Gnosticism of delving into all kinds of esoteric whos, and whens, and whats and what this and that means, is a fruitless distraction from that which should be the central focus of every believer:

"... when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?".
Luke 18:8b​

When He comes,
will he find
you and me
doing the "good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."? (Eph 2:10)

Well, I hope so!

At the judgment seat, Christ is not going to bless or curse anyone based on whether or not he knows the (alleged) difference between the "elect" and the "bride of Christ" and if he knew whether the rapture would be pre, mid, or post-trib.

As best as I can tell, God's not interested in our theology and all the amazing, astounding, and astonishing revelations we think the Holy Ghost has personally opened to us in the scriptures. (or to John Hagee or John McArthur or any one else)

He's interested in our faithfulness.
​

Jesus repeatedly told his disciples that what was important to HIM was that we be obedient to God. He said absolutely nothing about needing to be experts in the fine points of the latest winds of doctrine.

It is my firm conclusion that Christians need to be way more focused on the "doing" part of Christianity and a whole lot less on the "knowing" because the socialist, materialist, pagan world that we live in, full of people going to hell as fast as possible, couldn't care less about what we think we know.

What they need is a clear demonstration that (1) there really is a God Who created them for a purpose and (2) God really loves them enough for one of more of His ambassadors to show some of that love. It makes no difference at all to them if there is or isn't a "rapture" and whether it's before, in the middle of or after the "tribulation." Half the world is already living in tribulation. They need food, clean water, clothes, shoes, shelter, medical care, learn to read and write wouldn't hurt, and they don't give a damn about a rapture because their kids are starving to death right before their eyes right now while we babble on and on about raptures and tribulations.



Forget about the "rapture" and the "tribulation". They will happen if and when they happen and we won't be ready because we wasted too much time talking about we think the Bible says and fighting about what it says, and dividing His body because of our different opinions about what it says, rather than doing God's will to by being living cataracts of His mercy and love and grace and drawing the world to the One Who loves mankind.

Matthew 25:31-46 describes God will grade His "final exam."

It's a "pass-fail" exam.

Everyone currently breathing is taking that exam RIGHT NOW.

And no one knows when the exam time will be "up."


Meine zwei pfennige


iakov the fool 2

 

[JLB]

According to scripture, there are only two groups of people. Those who are "Blessed of the Father" (Mat 25:34) and those who are "cursed." (Mat 25:41)

This modern Christian Gnosticism of delving into all kinds of esoteric whos, and whens, and whats and what this and that means, is a fruitless distraction from that which should be the central focus of every believer:

"... when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?".
Luke 18:8b​

When He comes,
will he find
you and me
doing the "good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."? (Eph 2:10)

Well, I hope so!

At the judgment seat, Christ is not going to bless or curse anyone based on whether or not he knows the (alleged) difference between the "elect" and the "bride of Christ" and if he knew whether the rapture would be pre, mid, or post-trib.

As best as I can tell, God's not interested in our theology and all the amazing, astounding, and astonishing revelations we think the Holy Ghost has personally opened to us in the scriptures. (or to John Hagee or John McArthur or any one else)

He's interested in our faithfulness.
​

Jesus repeatedly told his disciples that what was important to HIM was that we be obedient to God. He said absolutely nothing about needing to be experts in the fine points of the latest winds of doctrine.

It is my firm conclusion that Christians need to be way more focused on the "doing" part of Christianity and a whole lot less on the "knowing" because the socialist, materialist, pagan world that we live in, full of people going to hell as fast as possible, couldn't care less about what we think we know.

What they need is a clear demonstration that (1) there really is a God Who created them for a purpose and (2) God really loves them enough for one of more of His ambassadors to show some of that love. It makes no difference at all to them if there is or isn't a "rapture" and whether it's before, in the middle of or after the "tribulation." Half the world is already living in tribulation. They need food, clean water, clothes, shoes, shelter, medical care, learn to read and write wouldn't hurt, and they don't give a damn about a rapture because their kids are starving to death right before their eyes right now while we babble on and on about raptures and tribulations.



Forget about the "rapture" and the "tribulation". They will happen if and when they happen and we won't be ready because we wasted too much time talking about we think the Bible says and fighting about what it says, and dividing His body because of our different opinions about what it says, rather than doing God's will to by being living cataracts of His mercy and love and grace and drawing the world to the One Who loves mankind.

Matthew 25:31-46 describes God will grade His "final exam."

It's a "pass-fail" exam.

Everyone currently breathing is taking that exam RIGHT NOW.

And no one knows when the exam time will be "up."


Meine zwei pfennige


iakov the fool 2

30 For we are members of His body,of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:30-31


The Church is the bride.


JLB

 

[Chopper]

Brother, please address the simple topic that is directly related to the OP, as I quoted Paul' letter to the Thessalonians that is about the Rapture and Resurrection, in which he encompasses all of the Lord's people, whether alive or dead they are all covered in the Rapture and Resurrection.

No matter what label you place on them they, Church, Bride, Israel, Body of Christ, New Jerusalem...

All shall be changed, all shall be made alive, at His Coming.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:17

This refers to the Resurrection/Rapture.

Are you teaching us the Bride doesn't get Raptured?

Are you teaching that no one who has died is of the Bride Group.

If anyone who is of the Bride Group had died, then they will be Resurrected here in the resurrection.

If any of the Bride Group is still alive at His coming then they will be Raptured here at the Rapture.



JLB

Reba is right. I have explained my position very clearly, but you somehow can't comprehend that the Bride/Elect is raptured before the trib. The rest of the church fall into your resurrection theory.

So as to respect the warning from Reba, I'll not respond to any further questions or comments because it surely will be a debate.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Brother, please address the simple topic that is directly related to the OP, as I quoted Paul' letter to the Thessalonians that is about the Rapture and Resurrection, in which he encompasses all of the Lord's people, whether alive or dead they are all covered in the Rapture and Resurrection.

No matter what label you place on them they, Church, Bride, Israel, Body of Christ, New Jerusalem...

All shall be changed, all shall be made alive, at His Coming.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:17

This refers to the Resurrection/Rapture.

Are you teaching us the Bride doesn't get Raptured?

Are you teaching that no one who has died is of the Bride Group.

If anyone who is of the Bride Group had died, then they will be Resurrected here in the resurrection.

If any of the Bride Group is still alive at His coming then they will be Raptured here at the Rapture.



JLB

I agree with you JLB.
Some people don't get it because they were taught differently and are unable to change their thoughts.
If someone can't change their ways, then your words are falling on deaf ears.