Bible Study Rapture

[Douglas Summers]

The word "RAPTURE", Comes from the Latin word From the Vulgate Bible, I Thessalonians: 4:17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur c*um illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic ... From the 4th Century translation. It means to: "take or carry away".. There are no specific signs that would indicate when the rapture would happen...except that Christ Body (Church or called out one's) is complete, a body of Jew and Gentile as one new man, and part of the "commonwealth" of Israel. (Eph. 2:11-16). From the Acts of the Apostles to Revelation Chapters 1-4 are to the Church and are instruction and support and edification for the Church. The warning to the Church is to be ready, "in season and out of season" (2 Tim. 4:1-3). The only thing that comes close to a sign are the events leading into the tribulation as we see world events shaping the signs in Daniel and Revelation's warnings.
But Christ tells the Church to be ready for His coming, for His bride. For, if a man knew when a thief was going to break into his house, he would prepare for him, but if he does not know the time, he must be ready at all times. (Matt. 24:36-25:13). The "Ten Virgins" deals with having the Holy Spirit, of which is given to the Church....five had the Spirit....five did not!
But it is not so with the second return of Christ to the earth, Christ has given us the signs of His return. The book of Revelation gives us the exact time of Christ return....after 7 years of the beginning of tribulation of the Jew (Matt. 24:15; Dan. 9:27; 7:25; Rev. 11:2; 12:6; 12:14; 13:5). Not knowing the day or the hour refers to the "Rapture". Look what Luke says about the Tribulation (Luke 21:25-28). The Church is to occupy until He comes (Luke 19:11-27). The First Century writers were looking for the return of Christ for the Church, of which would make this post too long....But, if you are looking for the Truth, you will find it. But, if you are looking for someone who agrees with your false views of Scripture...you will find that too.....But the Truth will prevail.
In Christ
Douglas Summers

 

[for_his_glory]

We are given a great sign to watch for before Christ returns as in Matthew 24:29-31, but yet know not when this will occur.

The word Rapture is found nowhere in any scripture or in any concordances or Bible dictionaries. Some people have taken the transliterate word of the Greek, Harpazo, to mean Rapture, but the definition of this word is:
1. To seize, carry off by force, obtain by robbery
2. To seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3. To snatch out or away

The Latin word rapio is where the word Rapture came from as it means to be seized or snatched up. No where in scripture does it say we will be seized or snatched up as we are obtained by robbery. We will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air after receiving our new glorified bodies that will be like Jesus and will evermore be with Him on the last day, John 6:40. It's no secret quiet rapture as many teach as the voice and the sound of a trumpet during the last day will be very loud and every eye will see Jesus return so it doesn't sound like we are seized or snatched up from the earth as God sends His angels out to gather the saints of God from the four corners of the earth, Rev 1:7; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; Matthew 24:29-31.

 

[Douglas Summers]

We are given a great sign to watch for before Christ returns as in Matthew 24:29-31, but yet know not when this will occur.

The word Rapture is found nowhere in any scripture or in any concordances or Bible dictionaries. Some people have taken the transliterate word of the Greek, Harpazo, to mean Rapture, but the definition of this word is:
1. To seize, carry off by force, obtain by robbery
2. To seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3. To snatch out or away

The Latin word rapio is where the word Rapture came from as it means to be seized or snatched up. No where in scripture does it say we will be seized or snatched up as we are obtained by robbery. We will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air after receiving our new glorified bodies that will be like Jesus and will evermore be with Him on the last day, John 6:40. It's no secret quiet rapture as many teach as the voice and the sound of a trumpet during the last day will be very loud and every eye will see Jesus return so it doesn't sound like we are seized or snatched up from the earth as God sends His angels out to gather the saints of God from the four corners of the earth, Rev 1:7; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; Matthew 24:29-31.

Hi Glory, I disagree (Matt. 24:39-42)...but when Christ returns to the earth (his second advent)...he tells us when and what to look for of His return to earth (Luke 21:25-28)...I'am watching for the rapture of the Church...in season or out of season before the tribulation, just as God kept Noah safe from the punishment by the flood.

 

[for_his_glory]

Luke writes the same thing in Luke 21:25-28 as Matthew wrote in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark in Mark 13:24-27. Matthew, Mark and Luke are three witnesses that confirm that of what Christ taught as they were with Him when He taught this that after the tribulation (God's end of days great wrath) of those days meaning everything Jesus outlined in Matthew 24:1-44 then we will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The Church, which represents the bride of Christ, will face seeing much tribulation as it will be hard to bare seeing Gods wrath on the unjust as we are sent out to preach to them before we enter into the kingdom of God. There are many false teachings that teach we are taken out of here before some seven year Great Tribulation, but there is no scripture that speaks of a seven year Great Tribulation. Some also teach that after Rev Chapter 4 the Church is no longer here on earth. If this were the case then why did Jesus say that those who endure until the end will be saved. The end of what, the end of days or as scripture calls it that great and terrible day of the Lord when final judgment will be passed as the Sheep are separated from the goats and the goats are cast into the lake of fire with Satan, the beast and false prophets.

By studying all the scriptures below in Revelations I come to the conclusion we will see much tribulation, but not to fear what must come, but stand strong in the faith of Christ Jesus so we can endure until the coming of the Lord and be His witnesses as a faithful servant unti He returns.

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 3:5; 19:8 Jesus is showing us to look for the signs of his coming

Rev 5:13; 6:16,17 On earth and under the earth are those who are still here until the end of days

Rev 6:9-11 Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were and we are in the midst of the seven seals right now heading towards the seven trumpets

Rev 7:13-17 Which came out of great tribulation; fulfillment of the gentiles

Rev 8:13 Three woes are war, earthquakes, and meteors

Rev 13:11-18 Here John is showing us about the revived Roman Empire (mystery Babylon) ruling the world again as a one world government. 666 represents action of the hands and thoughts of the mind

Rev 14:14-20 The harvest of Gods Children who are still alive at this time as they are being protected against the vial judgments that will fall on those who have rejected Christ.

Rev 16:11,15 And they repented not. We can only repent through Gods Spirit and if that Spirit dwells in the hearts of the believers then who would be left for anyone to repent if they wanted to if we were already caught up to Christ

Rev 18:23, 24 We have now come out of great tribulation through the persecution of the revived Roman Empire. This is Gods Rapture of his Bride or as scripture calls it being caught up to meet Jesus in the air

Rev 19:7,8 We have made ourselves ready by enduring great tribulations, even to death; we had to go through before the end of days

Rev 20:4-6 These verses show that we went through much annihilation and endured until Jesus came back in the clouds for us

Rev 20:12-15 The Great White Throne judgment and Jesus judgment for the works we did or did not do for him here on earth

 

[Douglas Summers]

Luke writes the same thing in Luke 21:25-28 as Matthew wrote in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark in Mark 13:24-27. Matthew, Mark and Luke are three witnesses that confirm that of what Christ taught as they were with Him when He taught this that after the tribulation (God's end of days great wrath) of those days meaning everything Jesus outlined in Matthew 24:1-44 then we will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The Church, which represents the bride of Christ, will face seeing much tribulation as it will be hard to bare seeing Gods wrath on the unjust as we are sent out to preach to them before we enter into the kingdom of God. There are many false teachings that teach we are taken out of here before some seven year Great Tribulation, but there is no scripture that speaks of a seven year Great Tribulation. Some also teach that after Rev Chapter 4 the Church is no longer here on earth. If this were the case then why did Jesus say that those who endure until the end will be saved. The end of what, the end of days or as scripture calls it that great and terrible day of the Lord when final judgment will be passed as the Sheep are separated from the goats and the goats are cast into the lake of fire with Satan, the beast and false prophets.

By studying all the scriptures below in Revelations I come to the conclusion we will see much tribulation, but not to fear what must come, but stand strong in the faith of Christ Jesus so we can endure until the coming of the Lord and be His witnesses as a faithful servant unti He returns.

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 3:5; 19:8 Jesus is showing us to look for the signs of his coming

Rev 5:13; 6:16,17 On earth and under the earth are those who are still here until the end of days

Rev 6:9-11 Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were and we are in the midst of the seven seals right now heading towards the seven trumpets

Rev 7:13-17 Which came out of great tribulation; fulfillment of the gentiles

Rev 8:13 Three woes are war, earthquakes, and meteors

Rev 13:11-18 Here John is showing us about the revived Roman Empire (mystery Babylon) ruling the world again as a one world government. 666 represents action of the hands and thoughts of the mind

Rev 14:14-20 The harvest of Gods Children who are still alive at this time as they are being protected against the vial judgments that will fall on those who have rejected Christ.

Rev 16:11,15 And they repented not. We can only repent through Gods Spirit and if that Spirit dwells in the hearts of the believers then who would be left for anyone to repent if they wanted to if we were already caught up to Christ

Rev 18:23, 24 We have now come out of great tribulation through the persecution of the revived Roman Empire. This is Gods Rapture of his Bride or as scripture calls it being caught up to meet Jesus in the air

Rev 19:7,8 We have made ourselves ready by enduring great tribulations, even to death; we had to go through before the end of days

Rev 20:4-6 These verses show that we went through much annihilation and endured until Jesus came back in the clouds for us

Rev 20:12-15 The Great White Throne judgment and Jesus judgment for the works we did or did not do for him here on earth

Hi Glory, Sorry, I do not understand any of those Scripture as you have interpreted them...I'am looking for the Lord to take His Body out of harms way before the tribulation of Israel begins. (Jacobs trouble Jer. 30:1-12)

 

[for_his_glory]

Jeremiah 30:1-12 is speaking about the tribes of Israel (Jacob's trouble) returning back to their homeland in a time of great sorrows spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24:4-8. It's described as that of a woman in labor for the times of sorrow that brings much pain to those Jews who return back to Israel, but find it being ruled by the evil powers of Satan who is at that time ruling from the Temple Mount during the end of days, Rev 13, as during the peace treaty the Dome of the Rock will be given to this ruling power as the one Satan works through will take their seat there. Christ will break that yoke that is put upon His people (all who are of God) when He returns on the last day at the end of the seventh trumpet sounding, John 6:40, as He destroys the beast and false prophet casting them into the lake of fire, Rev 19. It is then around this time Jesus sends his angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather His Bride to him, Matthew 24:31; John 5:28, 29,

I believe everything that happens from the beginning of the seventh trumpet sounding in Rev 11:15 that will include the abomination of desolation in Chapter 13 that Daniel spoke of in Daniel Chapter 7 and Jesus warned us to flee from as He detailed it all in Matthew 24 :15-31 will all happen quickly in God's timing. There is nowhere in scripture that speaks of a pre-trib or a mid-trib rapture or that it will be done in secret as all will hear the trump of God and the that of 1 Corinthians 15:51-57 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 will be fulfilled on the last day, John 6:40.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I see the picture you are drawing..........But I'am looking for the Lord, meeting Him in the air (His Church) so that we are kept from the temptation (Tribulation) that will come upon all the world to try them (Rev. 3:10-13). When the term "Last Days"plural, referring to the Church is not the same as "The Last Day" singular is talking about the return of Christ's with judgment.

 

[Winnie]

Here's a scripture I think is important that is rarely quoted in these arguments.
2Thessalonians 2:3
'Let no one in anyway decieve you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.'
So even tho this scripture alone doesnt prove a post tribulation 'rapture', it does prove it wont happen before that.

 

[JLB]

The word "RAPTURE", Comes from the Latin word From the Vulgate Bible, I Thessalonians: 4:17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur c*um illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic ... From the 4th Century translation. It means to: "take or carry away".. There are no specific signs that would indicate when the rapture would happen...except that Christ Body (Church or called out one's) is complete, a body of Jew and Gentile as one new man, and part of the "commonwealth" of Israel. (Eph. 2:11-16). From the Acts of the Apostles to Revelation Chapters 1-4 are to the Church and are instruction and support and edification for the Church. The warning to the Church is to be ready, "in season and out of season" (2 Tim. 4:1-3). The only thing that comes close to a sign are the events leading into the tribulation as we see world events shaping the signs in Daniel and Revelation's warnings.
But Christ tells the Church to be ready for His coming, for His bride. For, if a man knew when a thief was going to break into his house, he would prepare for him, but if he does not know the time, he must be ready at all times. (Matt. 24:36-25:13). The "Ten Virgins" deals with having the Holy Spirit, of which is given to the Church....five had the Spirit....five did not!
But it is not so with the second return of Christ to the earth, Christ has given us the signs of His return. The book of Revelation gives us the exact time of Christ return....after 7 years of the beginning of tribulation of the Jew (Matt. 24:15; Dan. 9:27; 7:25; Rev. 11:2; 12:6; 12:14; 13:5). Not knowing the day or the hour refers to the "Rapture". Look what Luke says about the Tribulation (Luke 21:25-28). The Church is to occupy until He comes (Luke 19:11-27). The First Century writers were looking for the return of Christ for the Church, of which would make this post too long....But, if you are looking for the Truth, you will find it. But, if you are looking for someone who agrees with your false views of Scripture...you will find that too.....But the Truth will prevail.
In Christ
Douglas Summers

Without saying anything about pre-trib or post trib rapture, I would like to point out these things that happen at His coming.


15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

1. The first thing we see from the scriptures, that happens at His coming is: The dead in Christ will rise.

• 
  
• that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
• And the dead in Christ will rise first.

2. The next thing we see happen, is the rapture of those who are alive and remain.​

• that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds

3. Finally we see the destruction of the wicked take place, while the Church is gathered together to Christ, in the air.​

​

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
• For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them. 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3
• And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

To sum up my point:

These three things happen at His coming.

1. The Resurrection
2. The Rapture
3. The destruction of the wicked including the antichrist.

JLB

 

[Douglas Summers]

Here's a scripture I think is important that is rarely quoted in these arguments.
2Thessalonians 2:3
'Let no one in anyway decieve you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.'
So even tho this scripture alone doesnt prove a post tribulation 'rapture', it does prove it wont happen before that.

Hi Winnie, Standing alone that Scripture with your explanation makes sense. But The Thessalonians , who were going through great tribulation were told that (by anonymous letters) that the day of the Lord had already come and they were left behind (rapture). But Paul says, That day will not come until the departure (taken away) (apostasia). Christ has delivered us from the wrath to come (1 Thes.1:10; 4:9). First and Second Thessalonians are to comfort those who thought (because of their persecution) that they had been left behind. The Body of Christ will suffer on this earth, but we are not appointed to wrath. Christ has made different and certain promises to the Church and to Israel. The Body of Christ will be completed when the "fullness of the Gentiles has come in to the Church"....that is the completion of the body of Christ, then Christ turns His work back to Israel. (Roman 11:24-25) (Acts 15:13-20)

 

[Douglas Summers]

Without saying anything about pre-trib or post trib rapture, I would like to point out these things that happen at His coming.


15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

1. The first thing we see from the scriptures, that happens at His coming is: The dead in Christ will rise.

• 
  
• that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
• And the dead in Christ will rise first.

2. The next thing we see happen, is the rapture of those who are alive and remain.​

• that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds

3. Finally we see the destruction of the wicked take place, while the Church is gathered together to Christ, in the air.​

​

​

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
• For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them. 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3
• And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

To sum up my point:

These three things happen at His coming.

1. The Resurrection
2. The Rapture
3. The destruction of the wicked including the antichrist.

JLB

Hi JLB, I believe everything in the Epistles are to the Church and Israel is on the back burner. And their tribulation and rescue is in Revelation's Chapters 5 thru 22.

 

[JLB]

Hi JLB, I believe everything in the Epistles are to the Church and Israel is on the back burner. And their tribulation and rescue is in Revelation's Chapters 5 thru 22.

Is your perspective based these things I pointed out from the scriptures ?


I would like to point out these things that happen at His coming.


15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

1. The first thing we see from the scriptures, that happens at His coming is: The dead in Christ will rise.

• that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
• And the dead in Christ will rise first.

2. The next thing we see happen, is the rapture of those who are alive and remain.​

• that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds

3. Finally we see the destruction of the wicked take place, while the Church is gathered together to Christ, in the air.​

​

​

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
• For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them. 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3
• And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

To sum up my point:

These three things happen at His coming.

1. The Resurrection
2. The Rapture
3. The destruction of the wicked including the antichrist.

JLB

 

[Douglas Summers]

Is your perspective based these things I pointed out from the scriptures ?


I would like to point out these things that happen at His coming.


15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

1. The first thing we see from the scriptures, that happens at His coming is: The dead in Christ will rise.

• that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
• And the dead in Christ will rise first.

2. The next thing we see happen, is the rapture of those who are alive and remain.​

• that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds

3. Finally we see the destruction of the wicked take place, while the Church is gathered together to Christ, in the air.​

​

​

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
• For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them. 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3
• And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

To sum up my point:

These three things happen at His coming.

1. The Resurrection
2. The Rapture
3. The destruction of the wicked including the antichrist.

Hi JLB, I believe those Scriptures are about the Church that you referenced. This is how I understand the Scriptures: The four NT Gospels are to Israel during Christ's ministry (Matt. 15:24; 10:6; Acts 3:22-26). The Church is only mentioned as future in (Matt. 16:13-20). But the Jews rejected Him (Acts 3:13)....Even after His ascension, The beginning of the calling out of the Church was only to the Jew at first. Only after Acts Chapter 10:1-8, Does He begin to call out the Gentile, to make out of them, One new man (Eph. 2:11-3:1) (The Church, His body), assigning Paul as an Apostle to the Gentile. The Gentile, the Church and The Jew, all have specific promises from Christ, and the Church is to watch for the meeting in the air with Christ of all passed Christians sense the beginning of the Church along with the living Church members, till all the Gentile have come in (fullness of the Gentile) (to the Church Body) (Romans 11:25). And all the warnings to watch for the Lord (for there will be no specific sign to the calling out of the Church, it will come as a thief in the night in the "last days of the Church" But, in the "Last Day" (The end of the Times of the Gentile) (The statue of Daniel, Dan. 2:36-45) ( Luke 21:23-25) The second advent of Christ, will be the Last day of Gentile rule and Christ Judgment and a new heaven and earth. On Christ second advent, He gives the signs of His return to those living on the "Last Day" (Matt. 24:29-31), But He gives no sign to the Church, but only to be ready. For He will come as a thief in the night. That is how I believe.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Douglas Summers said

Hi JLB, I believe those Scriptures are about the Church that you referenced.

Yes, I agree with you.


Can you see that the Church being Resurrected and Raptured, by the same coming of the Lord that the antichrist is destroyed is relevant to end time doctrine?



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

I see the picture you are drawing..........But I'am looking for the Lord, meeting Him in the air (His Church) so that we are kept from the temptation (Tribulation) that will come upon all the world to try them (Rev. 3:10-13). When the term "Last Days"plura referring to the Church is not the same as "The Last Day" singular is talking about the return of Christ's with judgment.

We are kept from the temptation, but all who are still alive at this time that are of Christ will go through all the seven trumpets sounding that include the seven vial judgments as I gave scriptures for that in post # 4. Rev 3:10-13 speaks nothing of a pretrib rapture, but that we are kept from the temptation of bowing down to the beast and false prophet that promises peace and safety in Rev 13 as we endure much persecution at that time, (Matthew 24:13). We are given a sign to watch for in Matthew 24:29-31 as at that time all will see Christ return in the clouds of heaven (first heaven as the atmosphere) with power and great glory.

I think were we differ is that I'm not sure if you believe in a pretrib rapture, which I do not. Scripture is very specific in that Christ does not return until the last day, John 6:40, and at that time mystery Babylon is destroyed and Christ will cast the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire, Rev 19. Satan is then bound for a time and I believe it is at that time the resurrection of all who are in their graves will hear the voice of Christ to come forth. They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, John 5:28, 29, as Christ sends the angels out to the four winds (N,S,E,W) of the earth to collect His elect, Matthew 24:29-31; 1Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 as after Satan is released and sends his army against the camp of the saints is then cast into the lake of fire and then judgment has come for all Rev 20.

I do not believe in a literal 1000 years, but that it is a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

 

[for_his_glory]

Why do many ignore this part of scripture as it plainly gives us the timing of Christ return even though we do not know the day or the hour. When has there ever been a time in history when the sun was darkened, the moon gave no light and the stars fell from heaven. Answer, never. This all takes place on the last day of God's end of days mighty wrath being poured out into the world that in hope many will turn back to God before it's to late as God would that none should perish, but not everyone will turn back to Him, but stand before Him as the books are opened and judgment given.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Yes, I agree with you.


Can you see that the Church being Resurrected and Raptured, by the same coming of the Lord that the antichrist is destroyed is relevant to end time doctrine?



JLB

No, I believe that when the Church meets the Lord in the air, that it will be seven years later (at the end of the times of the Gentiles) (The stone coming out of the mountain that destroys the statue in Daniel Chapter 2) will be His second advent as He returns to earth and destroys the antichrist.

 

[JLB]

No, I believe that when the Church meets the Lord in the air, that it will be seven years later (at the end of the times of the Gentiles) (The stone coming out of the mountain that destroys the statue in Daniel Chapter 2) will be His second advent as He returns to earth and destroys the antichrist.

Paul teaches us that the gathering of the Church at His coming, will result in the destruction of the antichrist.

The Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night for the wicked, but not for the Church who is watching.


That's the message.

That's the warning.

Salvation for those who are gathered, and destruction for those who are not.


Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 4:17-5:4


Key Points -

• we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds

• For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them

• But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

Paul says it this way in the second letter -



Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1,8

• the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him
• destroy with the brightness of His coming.

The coming of the Lord to gather the Church, also will be destruction for the antichrist.




JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

The word "RAPTURE", Comes from the Latin word From the Vulgate Bible, I Thessalonians: 4:17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur c*um illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic ... From the 4th Century translation. It means to: "take or carry away".. There are no specific signs that would indicate when the rapture would happen...except that Christ Body (Church or called out one's) is complete, a body of Jew and Gentile as one new man, and part of the "commonwealth" of Israel. (Eph. 2:11-16). From the Acts of the Apostles to Revelation Chapters 1-4 are to the Church and are instruction and support and edification for the Church. The warning to the Church is to be ready, "in season and out of season" (2 Tim. 4:1-3). The only thing that comes close to a sign are the events leading into the tribulation as we see world events shaping the signs in Daniel and Revelation's warnings.
But Christ tells the Church to be ready for His coming, for His bride. For, if a man knew when a thief was going to break into his house, he would prepare for him, but if he does not know the time, he must be ready at all times. (Matt. 24:36-25:13). The "Ten Virgins" deals with having the Holy Spirit, of which is given to the Church....five had the Spirit....five did not!
But it is not so with the second return of Christ to the earth, Christ has given us the signs of His return. The book of Revelation gives us the exact time of Christ return....after 7 years of the beginning of tribulation of the Jew (Matt. 24:15; Dan. 9:27; 7:25; Rev. 11:2; 12:6; 12:14; 13:5). Not knowing the day or the hour refers to the "Rapture". Look what Luke says about the Tribulation (Luke 21:25-28). The Church is to occupy until He comes (Luke 19:11-27). The First Century writers were looking for the return of Christ for the Church, of which would make this post too long....But, if you are looking for the Truth, you will find it. But, if you are looking for someone who agrees with your false views of Scripture...you will find that too.....But the Truth will prevail.
In Christ
Douglas Summers

Christ is only coming ONE more time. (not once "for His bride and again for good)
When He comes we will be caught up to meet Him in the air. The triumphal entry of "Palm Sunday" is a foreshadowing of Jesus' return when those who hope for His return go out to greet Him and escort Him into His everlasting kingdom with shouts of praise and worship.

 

[Winnie]

Hi Winnie, Standing alone that Scripture with your explanation makes sense. But The Thessalonians , who were going through great tribulation were told that (by anonymous letters) that the day of the Lord had already come and they were left behind (rapture). But Paul says, That day will not come until the departure (taken away) (apostasia). Christ has delivered us from the wrath to come (1 Thes.1:10; 4:9). First and Second Thessalonians are to comfort those who thought (because of their persecution) that they had been left behind. The Body of Christ will suffer on this earth, but we are not appointed to wrath. Christ has made different and certain promises to the Church and to Israel. The Body of Christ will be completed when the "fullness of the Gentiles has come in to the Church"....that is the completion of the body of Christ, then Christ turns His work back to Israel. (Roman 11:24-25) (Acts 15:13-20)

How can this scripture alone not prove what I just said since it is what the apostle Paul said?

Im post tribulation myself.