[_ Old Earth _] Reality

[Late_Cretaceous]

Human beings can only understand what they understand & nothing more. We Christians were once unbelievers too. So we know what life with the Holy Spirit & without it is like. Therefore, we are in a position to see which one is better. But those who've never received the Holy Spirit are stuck where we used to be. Since we've experienced which one is better, that's why we pass along the message of salvation. Nothing beats it! :angel: But until unbelievers have experienced life with the Holy Spirit, they will never know what they're missing.

And that has what to do with evolution?

 

[Heidi]

Everything! When people know the power of God, they do not reduce his creation of the human being as coming from an ape! They know that only a miraculous designer could have created something as beautiful as the human being and the environment in which we live.

But as I said, those who do not see an intelligent designer, don't see creation as an intelligent design but look for a human explanation for it instead...as if humans created the world. Humans weren't even around when the world was formed! So why would the design of the universe have anything to do with human intelligence? :o

 

[ThinkerMan]

Everything! When people know the power of God, they do not reduce his creation of the human being as coming from an ape!

Heidi, as a Christian you believe that humans are sinful and deserving of hell. You believe that without god we incapable of salvation. You believe we came from dust.

Yet for some reason, the idea that we may be distantly related to some primates disgusts you, and that that idea some how "reduces god".

Why is it a horrible, sinning and disgusting species deserving of hell is consistant with God, yet the idea that he evolved that species instead of popping it into existance is so abhorant to you?

But as I said, those who do not see an intelligent designer, don't see creation as an intelligent design but look for a human explanation for it instead...as if humans created the world. Humans weren't even around when the world was formed! So why would the design of the universe have anything to do with human intelligence?

If you can find one person who actually said humans were around when the earth was formed, I'll buy you a Happy Meal. Where did you get that?

 

[reznwerks]

blinders

Sorry, jwu, but you twisted my words. I said that humans as we know them today didn't come out of the womb of an ape. Apparently what evolutionists say is that a homonid came out of the womb of an ape, then a homospaiens came out of the womb of a homonid and so on and so forth & that's how they claim evolution happens.
Talk about twisting words. Not only that but you are twisting ideas that you know nothing or are conveniently ignoring. Apes don't and have not ever come out of a human. What you seem to be doing because I can't believe anyone is that hard of understanding unless under the care of a professional is continuing to propogate a known falsehood in hopes it will finally be accepted as true. Man is a species like an ape is a species. They are different but related genetically. One does not produce the other and man evolved into what he is today.

But I have challenged their very first claim that a homonid came out of the womb of an ape because it contradicts the process of re production. Reproduction is species reproducing themselves, not producing offspring that you give a completely new name to!! That again is like calling my children "alaglabs" because they are not human!
What an imagination. You challenge nothing because it is a falsl premise.

So it is evolutionists who are contradicting themselves when they say that apes did not produce a new species, but then turn around and give the offspring of apes a new name! This is a glaring contradiction. Gee I hope the press doesn't get hold of that shattering news. Can you imagine that ? Heidi has debunked 98%of all the scientists and biologists who study evolution and proved that their time and money was wasted on a lie. This will be on the news every night for a year. Hurry buy stock in the book making companies because they will be working overtime trying to get the new books to classes in the fall. LOL

 

[pearlz]

Everything! When people know the power of God, they do not reduce his creation of the human being as coming from an ape! They know that only a miraculous designer could have created something as beautiful as the human being and the environment in which we live.

But as I said, those who do not see an intelligent designer, don't see creation as an intelligent design but look for a human explanation for it instead...as if humans created the world. Humans weren't even around when the world was formed! So why would the design of the universe have anything to do with human intelligence? :o

I myself find it amazing to be related to the "apes" you so detest. I try to imagine the obsticals they must have had to overcome to get us to where we are today. Its really mind boggling how they managed to climb down, stand up and keep on surviving even when they didn't have anything but each other for protection. Do you have any idea how long it was before they picked up a tool? Could you survive with NO tools? And what about the 1st guy that went up to fire and tried to tame it? How brave was he? And we should really be thankful for the first dude that dropped some meat in fire, it changed our whole future, we no longer had to try to digest raw meat, and that allowed us to grow bigger brains. Heidi, have you ever thought of it this way, we are a people of survivors and our history is so full and rich, i don't know why you would rather be poofed out of dust when we owe so much to these people we once were.

 

[Jimbob]

Everything! When people know the power of God, they do not reduce his creation of the human being as coming from an ape! They know that only a miraculous designer could have created something as beautiful as the human being and the environment in which we live.

But as I said, those who do not see an intelligent designer, don't see creation as an intelligent design but look for a human explanation for it instead...as if humans created the world. Humans weren't even around when the world was formed! So why would the design of the universe have anything to do with human intelligence? :o

I myself find it amazing to be related to the "apes" you so detest. I try to imagine the obsticals they must have had to overcome to get us to where we are today. Its really mind boggling how they managed to climb down, stand up and keep on surviving even when they didn't have anything but each other for protection. Do you have any idea how long it was before they picked up a tool? Could you survive with NO tools? And what about the 1st guy that went up to fire and tried to tame it? How brave was he? And we should really be thankful for the first dude that dropped some meat in fire, it changed our whole future, we no longer had to try to digest raw meat, and that allowed us to grow bigger brains. Heidi, have you ever thought of it this way, we are a people of survivors and our history is so full and rich, i don't know why you would rather be poofed out of dust when we owe so much to these people we once were.

Well - said.

 

[pearlz]

Everything! When people know the power of God, they do not reduce his creation of the human being as coming from an ape! They know that only a miraculous designer could have created something as beautiful as the human being and the environment in which we live.

But as I said, those who do not see an intelligent designer, don't see creation as an intelligent design but look for a human explanation for it instead...as if humans created the world. Humans weren't even around when the world was formed! So why would the design of the universe have anything to do with human intelligence? :o

I myself find it amazing to be related to the "apes" you so detest. I try to imagine the obsticals they must have had to overcome to get us to where we are today. Its really mind boggling how they managed to climb down, stand up and keep on surviving even when they didn't have anything but each other for protection. Do you have any idea how long it was before they picked up a tool? Could you survive with NO tools? And what about the 1st guy that went up to fire and tried to tame it? How brave was he? And we should really be thankful for the first dude that dropped some meat in fire, it changed our whole future, we no longer had to try to digest raw meat, and that allowed us to grow bigger brains. Heidi, have you ever thought of it this way, we are a people of survivors and our history is so full and rich, i don't know why you would rather be poofed out of dust when we owe so much to these people we once were.

Well - said.

Thank you... :smt039

 

[kozaka]

If Creation requires such high intelligence that we don't even understand, then how do you explain it? The only explanation you ever get is "God created the world. Period." No one ever says how, even the bible can't tell you how. The Earth apparently just popped into existence, and then light formed, etc. I say the eveolution/BigBang theory is better, because it gives reasons for a lot ofthings and explains why things happened, and backs it all up with mathematical calculations. I think someone said in another thread, "Why do you use calculations instead of common sense?" Calculations are much more reliable. 1+1 will always be 2, no matter how you try to exlain it. Math is an infallible tool and can never go wrong.

 

[Solo]

What is so disgusting and detestable about the theory of evolution and its subjective "proofs" is that it goes against God's Word and his creation. It is no different than someone attacking the words of your earthly father whom you love and know is above board on all that he says and thinks.

There is an enemy of God and he has been on a constant war of deception to destroy God's creation because he knows that his time is short. Some require a sign because they have not accepted the faith offered them. Some require sight of that which is real before they believe, but faith is the substance of things unseen and still they reject the truth.

No one has witnessed macro-evolution. They have only witnessed hybrid reproduction. Man has been man for six thousand years, and that is why a longer expanse of time had to be invented so that man could come from another species other than man. God's word said that creation was completed in six days. From man's finite perception that is unthinkable and unbelievable and must be accepted by faith. Seeing and hearing God's word is so much more powerful than man's scientific observations which may or may not correlate with what is real from one century to the next. God's Word is unchanging from one generation to the next, and is the same today as it was yesterday, and will be the same tomorrow.

The reason that the theory of evolution is so disgusting and detestable is because many will be cast into an eternity apart from God, just as his word says because evolution is one deception used to explain away the origin of man away from the creator. Paul writes in the Book of Romans that God's creation shows God and man will have no excuse. Many will not believe it until they are experiencing it. So sad.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20

 

[Quath]

What is so disgusting and detestable about the theory of evolution and its subjective "proofs" is that it goes against God's Word and his creation. It is no different than someone attacking the words of your earthly father whom you love and know is above board on all that he says and thinks.

Do you think people that support the idea that the Earth moves are also attacking the Bible? The Bible clearly states that the Earth is fixed and immovable, yet people keep saying this is not so. Why accept science in one place over what the Bible says and not in other places?

Quath

 

[Barry Zuckerkorn]

What is so disgusting and detestable about the theory of evolution and its subjective "proofs" is that it goes against God's Word and his creation. It is no different than someone attacking the words of your earthly father whom you love and know is above board on all that he says and thinks.

Prove that these "subject proofs" are incorrect. (God's word? Which god?)

There is an enemy of God and he has been on a constant war of deception to destroy God's creation because he knows that his time is short. Some require a sign because they have not accepted the faith offered them. Some require sight of that which is real before they believe, but faith is the substance of things unseen and still they reject the truth.

Does that make non-believers out of the theistic evolutionists?

No one has witnessed macro-evolution.

That is why it is called the theory of evolution. Just because evolutionists haven't witnessed it doesn't mean there isn't evidence for it, and that they can't explore possible truths within it. At least evolutionists aren't blindly accepting it as some people do with other ideas.

Man has been man for six thousand years,

Prove it.

and that is why a longer expanse of time had to be invented so that man could come from another species other than man.

So now God is lying to us? Or was it a mistake, "Oops! I just lost my infallibility!"

God's word said that creation was completed in six days. From man's finite perception that is unthinkable and unbelievable and must be accepted by faith.

Quick, it's time for the Daily Double! Hint: How does one measure time before time? Uh-oh!

What is 518400 seconds?
What is 8640 minutes?
What is 144 hours?
What is 6 billion years?
What is Goddidit?

Seeing and hearing God's word is so much more powerful than man's scientific observations which may or may not correlate with what is real from one century to the next...

The reason that the theory of evolution is so disgusting and detestable is because many will be cast into an eternity apart from God, just as his word says because evolution is one deception used to explain away the origin of man away from the creator. Paul writes in the Book of Romans that God's creation shows God and man will have no excuse. Many will not believe it until they are experiencing it. So sad.

We may yet find out how the universe (and life itself) originated. Science doesn't have to be an enemy of God. Why can't you see that science may actually prove God's existence someday? It's a possiblity.

 

[Solo]

What is so disgusting and detestable about the theory of evolution and its subjective "proofs" is that it goes against God's Word and his creation. It is no different than someone attacking the words of your earthly father whom you love and know is above board on all that he says and thinks.

Prove that these "subject proofs" are incorrect. (God's word? Which god?)

Prove that the reality of the creator God is incorrect. (God's Word is from the only creator God that has revealed himself to man.)

There is an enemy of God and he has been on a constant war of deception to destroy God's creation because he knows that his time is short. Some require a sign because they have not accepted the faith offered them. Some require sight of that which is real before they believe, but faith is the substance of things unseen and still they reject the truth.

Does that make non-believers out of the theistic evolutionists?

Atheistic, Agnostic, and Theistic evolutionists have swallowed the deception hook, line, and sinker. Believing in evolution does not make a person an unbeliever, but not believing that Jesus is God the creator does.

No one has witnessed macro-evolution.

That is why it is called the theory of evolution. Just because evolutionists haven't witnessed it doesn't mean there isn't evidence for it, and that they can't explore possible truths within it. At least evolutionists aren't blindly accepting it as some people do with other ideas.

Evolutionists believe that the origin of man stems from the evolution of one-celled life through billions of years of mutations until the greatest kind has adapted to the current environment stronger and better off than otherwise could have be accomplished. That is a blindly accepted idea. It takes more faith to accept that, than it does to accept a creator given the evidence throughout the history of man. By the way, what is your definition of evolution? There are so many definitions, perhaps you have a new one that I have not heard yet.

Man has been man for six thousand years,

Prove it.

It has been proved to me, if you want proof you will have to become a believer in Jesus Christ so that your understanding of truth can begin to evolve into a stronger belief in creation than that of theory.

and that is why a longer expanse of time had to be invented so that man could come from another species other than man.

So now God is lying to us? Or was it a mistake, "Oops! I just lost my infallibility!"

Your understanding on this matter in unintelligible.

God's word said that creation was completed in six days. From man's finite perception that is unthinkable and unbelievable and must be accepted by faith.

Quick, it's time for the Daily Double! Hint: How does one measure time before time? Uh-oh!

What is 518400 seconds?
What is 8640 minutes?
What is 144 hours?
What is 6 billion years?
What is Goddidit?

Another typical evolutionist debate tactic. Unable to give evidence to the bunked theory, so ridicule is all that's left.

Seeing and hearing God's word is so much more powerful than man's scientific observations which may or may not correlate with what is real from one century to the next...

The reason that the theory of evolution is so disgusting and detestable is because many will be cast into an eternity apart from God, just as his word says because evolution is one deception used to explain away the origin of man away from the creator. Paul writes in the Book of Romans that God's creation shows God and man will have no excuse. Many will not believe it until they are experiencing it. So sad.

We may yet find out how the universe (and life itself) originated. Science doesn't have to be an enemy of God. Why can't you see that science may actually prove God's existence someday? It's a possiblity.

It is only a possibility if science accepts truth over deception. If science remains in the camp of unbelievers, then it will never attempt to prove God's existence. Do not hold your breath.

 

[Solo]

What is so disgusting and detestable about the theory of evolution and its subjective "proofs" is that it goes against God's Word and his creation. It is no different than someone attacking the words of your earthly father whom you love and know is above board on all that he says and thinks.

Do you think people that support the idea that the Earth moves are also attacking the Bible? The Bible clearly states that the Earth is fixed and immovable, yet people keep saying this is not so. Why accept science in one place over what the Bible says and not in other places?

Quath

No, I don't think that people that support the idea that the earth moves are attacking the Bible.

Now some unbelievers that have the spirit of anti-Christ attack the Word of God in many ways, just as their father the devil. The devil tempted Eve by getting her to doubt the Word of God. Guess what? He is doing the same thing today, and will continue until his end.

One unbeliever suggests that the following verses of scripture are proof that the Bible can not be trusted because the Bible says that "The world is firmly established, it will not be moved", in Psalm 93:1 and 1 Chronicles 16:30. Both sets of scriptures are Psalms of David where he is singing them to the Lord. He is praising God in that the world that God created is firmly established and that it will not be moved from the order in which God created it. The earth will continue in the same way that it was established. How God made the earth firmly established unable to be moved by anyone or anything. This sentence is in a Psalm written by David and is sung to the Lord. There is much literary license in the lyrics of a song, and this is the same as in the Psalms. The Hebrew word translated move is transliterated Mowt which means:

1. to totter, shake, slip
a. (Qal) to totter, shake, slip
b. (Niphal) to be shaken, be moved, be overthrown
c. (Hiphil) to dislodge, let fall, drop
d. (Hithpael) to be greatly shaken

This word is used 39 times and is translated moved 20 times, removed 5 times, slip 3 times, carried 1 time, cast 1 time, course 1 time, decay 1 time, falling down 1 time, exceedingly 1 time, fall 1 time, ready 1 time, shaketh 1 time, slide 1 time, and variant 1 time.

Here are the verses that use this same word:

Le 25:35 And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fall en in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.

1Ch 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

De 32:35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.

Job 41:23 The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.

Ps 10:6 He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved: for I shall never be in adversity.

Ps 13:4 Lest mine enemy say, I have prevailed against him; and those that trouble me rejoice when I am moved.

Ps 15:5 He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.

Ps 16:8 I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.

Ps 17:5 Hold up my goings in thy paths, that my footsteps slip not.

Ps 21:7 For the king trusteth in the LORD, and through the mercy of the most High he shall not be moved.

Ps 30:6 And in my prosperity I said, I shall never be moved.

Ps 38:16 For I said, Hear me, lest otherwise they should rejoice over me: when my foot slip peth, they magnify themselves against me.

Ps 46:2 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;

Ps 46:5 God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early.

Ps 46:6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Ps 55:3 Because of the voice of the enemy, because of the oppression of the wicked: for they cast iniquity upon me, and in wrath they hate me.

Ps 55:22 Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and he shall sustain thee: he shall never suffer the righteous to be moved.

Ps 60:2 Thou hast made the earth to tremble; thou hast broken it: heal the breaches thereof; for it shaketh.

Ps 62:2 He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved.

Ps 62:6 He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved.

Ps 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

Ps 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Ps 94:18 When I said, My foot slip peth; thy mercy, O LORD, held me up.

Ps 96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.

Ps 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

Ps 112:6 Surely he shall not be moved for ever: the righteous shall be in everlasting remembrance.

Ps 125:1 They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.

Ps 140:10 Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire; into deep pits, that they rise not up again.

Pr 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.

Pr 12:3 A man shall not be established by wickedness: but the root of the righteous shall not be moved.

Pr 24:11 If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain;

Pr 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring.

Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

Isa 40:20 He that is so impoverished that he hath no oblation chooseth a tree that will not rot; he seeketh unto him a cunning workman to prepare a graven image, that shall not be moved.

Isa 41:7 So the carpenter encouraged the goldsmith, and he that smootheth with the hammer him that smote the anvil, saying, It is ready for the sodering: and he fastened it with nails, that it should not be moved.

Isa 54:10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.



1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. 2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting. 3 The floods have lifted up, O LORD, the floods have lifted up their voice; the floods lift up their waves. 4 The LORD on high is mightier than the noise of many waters, yea, than the mighty waves of the sea. 5 Thy testimonies are very sure: holiness becometh thine house, O LORD, for ever. Psalm 93:1-4


30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved. 31 Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice: and let men say among the nations, The LORD reigneth. 32 Let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof: let the fields rejoice, and all that is therein. 33 Then shall the trees of the wood sing out at the presence of the LORD, because he cometh to judge the earth. 34 O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever. 35 And say ye, Save us, O God of our salvation, and gather us together, and deliver us from the heathen, that we may give thanks to thy holy name, and glory in thy praise. 36 Blessed be the LORD God of Israel for ever and ever. And all the people said, Amen, and praised the LORD.
1 Chronicles 16:30-36


First Chronicles 16:7 records that King David delivered this Psalm to thank the Lord.

7 Then on that day David delivered first this psalm to thank the LORD into the hand of Asaph and his brethren. 1 Chronicles 16:7

 

[Quath]

Now some unbelievers that have the spirit of anti-Christ attack the Word of God in many ways, just as their father the devil. The devil tempted Eve by getting her to doubt the Word of God. Guess what? He is doing the same thing today, and will continue until his end.

I don't think the story works if Satan tempted Eve. If that was Satan, then God cursed him to crawl instead of walk. Yet we see Satan walking around later in he Bible. So if that was Satan, then Satan is immune to the curses of God.

One unbeliever suggests that the following verses of scripture are proof that the Bible can not be trusted because the Bible says that "The world is firmly established, it will not be moved", in Psalm 93:1 and 1 Chronicles 16:30. Both sets of scriptures are Psalms of David where he is singing them to the Lord. He is praising God in that the world that God created is firmly established and that it will not be moved from the order in which God created it. The earth will continue in the same way that it was established. How God made the earth firmly established unable to be moved by anyone or anything. This sentence is in a Psalm written by David and is sung to the Lord. There is much literary license in the lyrics of a song, and this is the same as in the Psalms. The Hebrew word translated move is transliterated Mowt which means:

I can't tell what your point is. Are you supporting the idea that the Earth does not move?

The fixed and immovable verses I know of are 1 Chronicles 16:30, Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, Psalm 104:5, Isaiah 45:18, and Hebrews 1:10. The Bible does talk about earthquakes as in 2 Samuel 22:8 and Isaiah 13:13. So it seems that Bible says the Earth is fixed on its foundations, but it can tremble. However, orbits and rotations would be forbidden.

Quath

 

[Barry Zuckerkorn]

Prove that the reality of the creator God is incorrect. (God's Word is from the only creator God that has revealed himself to man.)

The burden of proof is on believers. I do not believe that the bible actually comes from god. I'll be glad to read your evidence for this, and, if it is sound, I'll gladly accept it. (God, Heaven, that'd be pretty sweet ;))

Atheistic, Agnostic, and Theistic evolutionists have swallowed the deception hook, line, and sinker. Believing in evolution does not make a person an unbeliever, but not believing that Jesus is God the creator does.

Creationists have swallowed the deception hook, line, and sinker. Believing in creation does not make a person an unbeliever, but not believing that the Tooth Fairy is God the creator does. (Look past the humor; I'm not purposely trying to poke fun at your religion.)

That is a blindly accepted idea. It takes more faith to accept that, than it does to accept a creator given the evidence throughout the history of man.

Why do you say that? If someone presented you with both views without evidence for either, I'd say that they'd both take faith (and the same amount of it, if it's even possible to quantify this kind of faith) to believe. The difference now is the actual evidence for each view. That's a giant topic on its own. But if you want to, we can go there.

It has been proved to me, if you want proof you will have to become a believer in Jesus Christ so that your understanding of truth can begin to evolve into a stronger belief in creation than that of theory.

I think you've convinced me:

1) Blindly believe in Jesus Christ of the Bible
2) The Bible says that Jesus Christ is God
3) Therefore, Jesus is God. The earth is young. And I'm going to heaven, yahoo!

Your understanding on this matter in unintelligible.

I was trying to be humorous. Sorry you didn't get the jokes. The idea that god had to "fake" a past before he created time just seems a little fishy to me, that's all.

What is 518400 seconds?
What is 8640 minutes?
What is 144 hours?
What is 6 billion years?
What is Goddidit?

Another typical evolutionist debate tactic. Unable to give evidence to the bunked theory, so ridicule is all that's left.

Which one do you believe is the correct answer?

It is only a possibility if science accepts truth over deception. If science remains in the camp of unbelievers, then it will never attempt to prove God's existence. Do not hold your breath.

[/quote]

Did you know that there really are scientists that believe in god? And for the rest, are you saying that they must believe in god before they can scientifically prove his existence? Oh, shiny. I'll point them to your nifty proof of god's existence above. *holds breath*

 

[Jimbob]

Then I guess we should stop using all that evil, secular, evolutionist nonsense about pi = 3.14159....etc. and just trust good old Kings 7:23 :roll:

 

[Solo]

Now some unbelievers that have the spirit of anti-Christ attack the Word of God in many ways, just as their father the devil. The devil tempted Eve by getting her to doubt the Word of God. Guess what? He is doing the same thing today, and will continue until his end.

I don't think the story works if Satan tempted Eve. If that was Satan, then God cursed him to crawl instead of walk. Yet we see Satan walking around later in he Bible. So if that was Satan, then Satan is immune to the curses of God.

One unbeliever suggests that the following verses of scripture are proof that the Bible can not be trusted because the Bible says that "The world is firmly established, it will not be moved", in Psalm 93:1 and 1 Chronicles 16:30. Both sets of scriptures are Psalms of David where he is singing them to the Lord. He is praising God in that the world that God created is firmly established and that it will not be moved from the order in which God created it. The earth will continue in the same way that it was established. How God made the earth firmly established unable to be moved by anyone or anything. This sentence is in a Psalm written by David and is sung to the Lord. There is much literary license in the lyrics of a song, and this is the same as in the Psalms. The Hebrew word translated move is transliterated Mowt which means:

I can't tell what your point is. Are you supporting the idea that the Earth does not move?

The fixed and immovable verses I know of are 1 Chronicles 16:30, Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, Psalm 104:5, Isaiah 45:18, and Hebrews 1:10. The Bible does talk about earthquakes as in 2 Samuel 22:8 and Isaiah 13:13. So it seems that Bible says the Earth is fixed on its foundations, but it can tremble. However, orbits and rotations would be forbidden.

Quath

Believe what you want to. The earth is in orbit and God's word does not indicate that the earth is not in movement. God's word indicates that the earth is not going to slip, totter, be moved/overthrown, dislodged, fall, drop, or be greatly shaken. If you interpret this to mean that the earth does not spin or rotate around the sun, then your interpretation is askewed. I suggest that you start reading the Bible as a believer instead of a skeptic, and lay off of those skeptic pages, because they are pure junk.

By the way, don't expect another long disertation of information on any of your questions in the future. You either don't comprehend well, or you ignored reading my previous post. It was chocked full of information and was obvious as to what my answer was.

 

[unred typo]

Solo wrote:

One unbeliever suggests that the following verses of scripture are proof that the Bible can not be trusted because the Bible says that "The world is firmly established, it will not be moved", in Psalm 93:1 and 1 Chronicles 16:30. Both sets of scriptures are Psalms of David where he is singing them to the Lord. He is praising God in that the world that God created is firmly established and that it will not be moved from the order in which God created it. The earth will continue in the same way that it was established. How God made the earth firmly established unable to be moved by anyone or anything. This sentence is in a Psalm written by David and is sung to the Lord. There is much literary license in the lyrics of a song, and this is the same as in the Psalms. The Hebrew word translated move is transliterated Mowt which means:

1. to totter, shake, slip
a. (Qal) to totter, shake, slip
b. (Niphal) to be shaken, be moved, be overthrown
c. (Hiphil) to dislodge, let fall, drop
d. (Hithpael) to be greatly shaken

This word is used 39 times and is translated moved 20 times, removed 5 times, slip 3 times, carried 1 time, cast 1 time, course 1 time, decay 1 time, falling down 1 time, exceedingly 1 time, fall 1 time, ready 1 time, shaketh 1 time, slide 1 time, and variant 1 time.

Here are the verses that use this same word:

Le 25:35 And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fall en in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.

1Ch 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

De 32:35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.

Job 41:23 The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.

Ps 10:6 He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved: for I shall never be in adversity.

Ps 13:4 Lest mine enemy say, I have prevailed against him; and those that trouble me rejoice when I am moved.

Ps 15:5 He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.

Ps 16:8 I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.

Ps 17:5 Hold up my goings in thy paths, that my footsteps slip not.

Ps 21:7 For the king trusteth in the LORD, and through the mercy of the most High he shall not be moved.

Ps 30:6 And in my prosperity I said, I shall never be moved.

Ps 38:16 For I said, Hear me, lest otherwise they should rejoice over me: when my foot slip peth, they magnify themselves against me.

Ps 46:2 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;

Ps 46:5 God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early.

Ps 46:6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Ps 55:3 Because of the voice of the enemy, because of the oppression of the wicked: for they cast iniquity upon me, and in wrath they hate me.

Ps 55:22 Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and he shall sustain thee: he shall never suffer the righteous to be moved.

Ps 60:2 Thou hast made the earth to tremble; thou hast broken it: heal the breaches thereof; for it shaketh.

Ps 62:2 He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved.

Ps 62:6 He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved.

Ps 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

Ps 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Ps 94:18 When I said, My foot slip peth; thy mercy, O LORD, held me up.

Ps 96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.

Ps 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

Ps 112:6 Surely he shall not be moved for ever: the righteous shall be in everlasting remembrance.

Ps 125:1 They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.

Ps 140:10 Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire; into deep pits, that they rise not up again.

Pr 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.

Pr 12:3 A man shall not be established by wickedness: but the root of the righteous shall not be moved.

Pr 24:11 If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain;

Pr 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring.

Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

Isa 40:20 He that is so impoverished that he hath no oblation chooseth a tree that will not rot; he seeketh unto him a cunning workman to prepare a graven image, that shall not be moved.

Isa 41:7 So the carpenter encouraged the goldsmith, and he that smootheth with the hammer him that smote the anvil, saying, It is ready for the sodering: and he fastened it with nails, that it should not be moved.

Isa 54:10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.



1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. 2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting. 3 The floods have lifted up, O LORD, the floods have lifted up their voice; the floods lift up their waves. 4 The LORD on high is mightier than the noise of many waters, yea, than the mighty waves of the sea. 5 Thy testimonies are very sure: holiness becometh thine house, O LORD, for ever. Psalm 93:1-4


30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved. 31 Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice: and let men say among the nations, The LORD reigneth. 32 Let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof: let the fields rejoice, and all that is therein. 33 Then shall the trees of the wood sing out at the presence of the LORD, because he cometh to judge the earth. 34 O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever. 35 And say ye, Save us, O God of our salvation, and gather us together, and deliver us from the heathen, that we may give thanks to thy holy name, and glory in thy praise. 36 Blessed be the LORD God of Israel for ever and ever. And all the people said, Amen, and praised the LORD.
1 Chronicles 16:30-36


First Chronicles 16:7 records that King David delivered this Psalm to thank the Lord.

7 Then on that day David delivered first this psalm to thank the LORD into the hand of Asaph and his brethren. 1 Chronicles 16:7

That was an incredibly comprehensive and thoroughly logical explanation, clearly dispelling any imagined problem with that passage. The reaction to your post was, regrettably, typical. :roll:

 

[Quath]

Believe what you want to. The earth is in orbit and God's word does not indicate that the earth is not in movement. God's word indicates that the earth is not going to slip, totter, be moved/overthrown, dislodged, fall, drop, or be greatly shaken.

Your argument rests incontradiction with itself. If the Earth moves, then it is not immovable. If the Earth moves in an orbit, it is not on foundations (as God's word says). If the Earth rotates, it is not on foundations either. If God stops the sun in the sky to slow down the day, He did not slow down the spinning of the Earth.

You say "How God made the earth firmly established unable to be moved by anyone or anything." Yet we know that gravity is the force that moves the Earth.

If you interpret this to mean that the earth does not spin or rotate around the sun, then your interpretation is askewed. I suggest that you start reading the Bible as a believer instead of a skeptic, and lay off of those skeptic pages, because they are pure junk.

My interpretation is just by taking the Bible at face value. It says the Earth does not move. I do not perform doube think or mental gymnastics to make that mean that the Earth does move. I intepret as it was interpretated by people of the time before it was known that the Earth moved. They fought and resisted the idea of the Earth moving because the Bible clearly states it does not.

By the way, don't expect another long disertation of information on any of your questions in the future. You either don't comprehend well, or you ignored reading my previous post. It was chocked full of information and was obvious as to what my answer was.

No need to get long winded. Most ideas can be simply expressed. Our difference seems to be in the logic and not the information. You did not express your logic well because I could not tell what ideas you were supporting.

Even if you think that the Bible does not contradict nature, you should realize that people went by the Bible to support the idea that the Earth does not move. Now you say they misinterpreted "immovable" as not moving or something like that. Likewise in 50 to 100 years, Christians will be talking about how Christians of today misinterpreted the Bible to reject evolution.

Christianity has a horrible track record with regard to science.

Quath

 

[Solo]

Believe what you want to. The earth is in orbit and God's word does not indicate that the earth is not in movement. God's word indicates that the earth is not going to slip, totter, be moved/overthrown, dislodged, fall, drop, or be greatly shaken.

Your argument rests incontradiction with itself. If the Earth moves, then it is not immovable. If the Earth moves in an orbit, it is not on foundations (as God's word says). If the Earth rotates, it is not on foundations either. If God stops the sun in the sky to slow down the day, He did not slow down the spinning of the Earth.

Perhaps you should attend a comprehension course and then reread my previous explanation, or are you on this forum to stir up lies and strife?

You say "How God made the earth firmly established unable to be moved by anyone or anything." Yet we know that gravity is the force that moves the Earth.

Read the definition of the Hebrew word used and you will realize that you are once again in error. Of course the evolutionists are accustomed to making erroneous assumptions.

If you interpret this to mean that the earth does not spin or rotate around the sun, then your interpretation is askewed. I suggest that you start reading the Bible as a believer instead of a skeptic, and lay off of those skeptic pages, because they are pure junk.

My interpretation is just by taking the Bible at face value. It says the Earth does not move. I do not perform doube think or mental gymnastics to make that mean that the Earth does move. I intepret as it was interpretated by people of the time before it was known that the Earth moved. They fought and resisted the idea of the Earth moving because the Bible clearly states it does not.

If you take the Bible at face value, then you understand that God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Try understanding the meaning of move. Many definitions exist for that one English word. By the definition of the word move below, what is the meaning of the sentence, "I wish Quath would be moved".

Main Entry: 1move
Pronunciation: 'müv
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): moved; mov·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French movoir, from Latin movEre; probably akin to Sanskrit mIvati he moves, pushes
intransitive senses
1 a (1) : to go or pass to another place or in a certain direction with a continuous motion <moved into the shade> (2) : to proceed toward a certain state or condition <moving up the executive ladder> <moved into second place in the tournament> (3) : to become transferred during play <checkers move along diagonally adjacent squares> (4) : to keep pace <moving with the times> b : to start away from some point or place : DEPART c : to change one's residence or location
2 : to carry on one's life or activities in a specified environment <moves in the best circles>
3 : to change position or posture : STIR <told him to be quiet and not to move>
4 : to take action : ACT
5 a : to begin operating or functioning or working in a usual way b : to show marked activity <after a brief lull things really began to move> c : to move a piece (as in chess or checkers) during one's turn
6 : to make a formal request, application, or appeal
7 : to change hands by being sold or rented <goods that were moving slowly>
8 of the bowels : EVACUATE
transitive senses
1 a (1) : to change the place or position of (2) : to dislodge or displace from a fixed position : BUDGE b : to transfer (as a piece in chess) from one position to another
2 a (1) : to cause to go or pass from one place to another with a continuous motion <moved the flag slowly up and down> (2) : to cause to advance b : to cause to operate or function : ACTUATE <this button moves the whole machine> c : to put into activity or rouse up from inactivity
3 : to cause to change position or posture
4 : to prompt or rouse to the doing of something : PERSUADE <the report moved the faculty to take action>
5 a : to stir the emotions, feelings, or passions of <was deeply moved by such kindness> b : to affect in such a way as to lead to an indicated show of emotion <the story moved her to tears>
6 a obsolete : BEG b : to make a formal application to
7 : to propose formally in a deliberative assembly <moved adjournment>
8 : to cause (the bowels) to void
9 : to cause to change hands through sale or rent
synonyms MOVE, ACTUATE, DRIVE, IMPEL mean to set or keep in motion. MOVE is very general and implies no more than the fact of changing position <moved the furniture>. ACTUATE stresses transmission of power so as to work or set in motion <turbines actuated by waterpower>. DRIVE implies imparting forward and continuous motion and often stresses the effect rather than the impetus <a ship driven aground by hurricane winds>. IMPEL is usually figurative and suggests a great motivating impetus <a candidate impelled by ambition>.

By the way, don't expect another long disertation of information on any of your questions in the future. You either don't comprehend well, or you ignored reading my previous post. It was chocked full of information and was obvious as to what my answer was.

No need to get long winded. Most ideas can be simply expressed. Our difference seems to be in the logic and not the information. You did not express your logic well because I could not tell what ideas you were supporting.

The logic that I used was clear and concise while your comprehension needed work. Or perhaps your anti-Christian spirit is in charge of your senses, and you are unable to see truth.

Even if you think that the Bible does not contradict nature, you should realize that people went by the Bible to support the idea that the Earth does not move. Now you say they misinterpreted "immovable" as not moving or something like that. Likewise in 50 to 100 years, Christians will be talking about how Christians of today misinterpreted the Bible to reject evolution.

David wrote the songs designated to express his profound love for God and his creation. God's world is unshakeable, unmovable, unable to fall, etc. etc.

Those people who did not understand the meaning of the words of the Bible were no different than you. I suspect that if you lived back then, you would believe that the earth stood still and never moved. After all you said that you take the Bible at face value. You make too many assumptions that lead to a rambling of unintelligible jargon that appeases your intellect but is unworthy of debate.

Christianity has a horrible track record with regard to science.

Science has a horrible track record with regard to the Word of God who is the author of this world. The science that contradicts the Bible is suspect and should be revisited, the science that agrees with the Bible is true.