Recognizing the Tares Take Two

[francisdesales]

YOU KNOW AUGUSTINE IS IN HELL? Why, are you a demon?

No, I'm a born-again Christian, and we KNOW that no murderer has eternal life. Drunk with the blood of the saints, the Catholic Church finds its moral justification for murder, along with other sins, in the writings and practices of Saint Augustine.

You know, false accusations and libel are also reasons for people not obtaining eternal life, not just murder... You have no evidence that Augustine murdered anyone. If you do, please provide the evidence.

Furthermore, how would you know if Augustine didn't repent, even if he did murder?

To state that someone killed someone, with no evidence to support it - along with the cock-sure certainty that he didn't repent - perhaps you should rethink your "certainty" and what it is based upon. Knowing the person Augustine, or your own sect's "beliefs".

 

[Pizzaguy]

Drunk with the blood of the saints, the Catholic Church finds its moral justification for murder, along with other sins, in the writings and practices of Saint Augustine.

Um WHAT?

There is something wrong with this board, I thought it was just me - you know, sometimes I go after people, forgetting they are brothers and sisters is Christ.

But it is NOT just me - there is something WRONG with this place. Maybe, with all of us here.

 

[Vince]

Revelations 22:15 adds to the teachings of Galatians 5:19-21: "15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie."

Different versions translate the last part as "loves and makes" a lie, and both translations are correct. The Bible never specifically defines "liar," but this verse tells us that those who love lying, and who practice lying, and not saved.

When I taught Christian school, we had a grade-school teacher who organized regular slander campaigns on high school teachers who made their students behave. She trained her own children to train other students in lying methods, and the training was successful. Having grown up in the church, she claimed that several families would leave if she were fired, and we could not get rid of her.

Incredibly, all of us believed that she was a Christian. We knew her to be a liar, but she was in full-time Christian service, so we believed that she must be saved. But the Scriptures teach no such thing. In fact, Judas was an Apostle, yet he was an adversary from the beginning.

Eventually, the school did fire her, but it was far too late to undo the harm she had done.

 

[francisdesales]

Revelations 22:15 adds to the teachings of Galatians 5:19-21: "15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie."

Different versions translate the last part as "loves and makes" a lie, and both translations are correct. The Bible never specifically defines "liar," but this verse tells us that those who love lying, and who practice lying, and not saved.

When I taught Christian school, we had a grade-school teacher who organized regular slander campaigns on high school teachers who made their students behave.

Is that where you got the "slander a Saint" idea from?

 

[for_his_glory]

A great example of how we see and what we hear is found in Matthew chapter 13 (read and study the whole chapter) as Jesus talks about the parable of the seed being sown in three different ways. One is sown by the way side which means the word was given, but Satan plucked it out of you because it was not understood. The second was sown in stony ground which was received with joy, but when tribulation or persecution came it was uprooted and caused one to be offended. The third was sown in good ground and received and he that heard the word also understood it and produced much fruit. Further down in the same chapter Jesus teaches about the wheat and the tares as the wheat being those who are of truth hearing with Spiritual ears and seeing truth with Spiritual eyes that have repented and the tares being those of deception that only think and see with a carnal mind of rationalization that have not repented. This means saints and those who reject truth or never repented of their ways will all be here on earth when Jesus returns in the air with his army and we as the wheat will go with him when the time of harvest is ripe, but the tares are those that do not repent and will stand in the Great White Throne Judgment before God and will be condemned for eternity as their names will not be found in the Lambs book of life.

 

[childeye]

This is an interesting thread. I would like to add that I believe it is safer to err on the side of forgiveness rather than condemnation. Even forgivness of those who are not forgiving, lest in our past we find we were not forgiving when we should have been, and do not therefore receive forgiveness for it. For I find it a perfect justice that men will be judged according to how we judge. All of this will pass away, but let us not lose our integrity along the way, knowing that Love is eternal and will not be defeated.

The tares are an interesting parable. It is safe to take away from it that there are those who look like wheat but are not wheat. Still, we do not know what spirits of darkness we entertain in apprehension of one another.

 

[Vince]

"The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?' But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them."

A common misunderstanding of this passage is that the servants were not allowed to uproot the tares because they couldn't tell the difference, and might pull up wheat by mistake. But the beginning of this parable shows that the servants COULD recognize the tares by their fruit. The Greeks shows that the wheat and tares were so rooted together that it was impossible to pull up the tares without pulling up some wheat with them. Some Christians are such strong disciples of false prophets and teachers that their faith cannot survive the destruction of their leaders.

In the 1970's a friend of mine ran a church bus route that literally numbered in the hundreds, with several buses under his authority. The bus director stressed that if you had a big route, then God was pleased with you, no matter how much sin and failure was in your life. Years later, my friend was an Atheist, although he has returned to Christianity.

A few months ago, I was able to get in touch with him by telephone. My explanation was that the bus director had convinced him of a "wrong" God--that God was pleased with his sins, as long as he had a big route. But that "God" doesn't exist, and my friend was partially right in turning Atheist.

My personal observations (not the Bible) are that when a false leader is exposed, his Christian disciples probably won't turn Atheist, but they'll give up or decrease their service to God. They just can't deal with the fact that their leader never represented God in the first place.

 

[francisdesales]

"The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?' But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them."

Vince,

Tares and wheat look identical in the early stages of their growth. Jesus chose THAT particular weed for a reason...

People young in their spiritual growth make many mistakes. They are more prone to sins of pride and arrogance. They fail to recognize their own spiritual weakness. They may overlook more "minor" vices, thinking that "well, that's not too bad...". They may not generate the fruits that more spiritually mature people tend to generate. Thus, young tares may look like young wheat. Pulling up a "prodigal son" while on the pig farm would be pulling up wheat, since he later repented. Thus, the parable stresses not to make the judgment of who is tares and who is wheat, since you might pull up a wheat, rather than a tare. It is only at the end are tares pulled up.

Regards

 

[Vince]

2 Peter 2:3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

A few years ago a woman preacher began taunting me because I had never heard of a successful woman evangelist. Looking her up on the internet, I found that she was being investigated by Congress for tax fraud. Her ministry owned a mansion that she lived in for free, and her ministry employed servants for her, tax-free. Her ministry had bought a mansion for her married child and her husband, but they didn't like it, so the ministry paid to tear it down and build another one.

About this same time, a financially successful husband-wife team of evangelists got divorced. The judge divided up their ministries so that the wealth from their future income would be shared about equally.

Preachers like these often quote Scripture that promises God's blessings on people who give. But when you look at the context of those verses you find that ALMOST EVERY VERSE IN SCRIPTURE THAT PROMISES BLESSINGS FOR GIVING REFER TO GIVING TO THE POOR, NOT TO THE RICH.

 

[Sam21]

We do live in strange times because we have folks who preach faith in Christ and seem to be born again believers, yet they live a material life like a Hollywood movie star. Are they really christian and have been deceived or are they deceivers pretending to be christian? The bible says that God will correct all of His children,Jim Baker was certainly corrected by God,however others just seem to float along for years in their material indulgence without anything in their way.
At the very least, it has to be that anyone claiming to be christian and they use their position in order to wallow in materialism CANNOT be truely following God.

 

[francisdesales]

We do live in strange times because we have folks who preach faith in Christ and seem to be born again believers, yet they live a material life like a Hollywood movie star. Are they really christian and have been deceived or are they deceivers pretending to be christian? The bible says that God will correct all of His children,Jim Baker was certainly corrected by God,however others just seem to float along for years in their material indulgence without anything in their way.
At the very least, it has to be that anyone claiming to be christian and they use their position in order to wallow in materialism CANNOT be truely following God.

I think there are a number of issues at work here...

False Gospel teachings, for example, the "health and wealth" gospel.

Failure of preachers to preach discipleship, and rather, focus on eternal security based upon a verbal act...

Failure of people in our society to understand the concept of sin - or sacrifice.

Focus of many preachers on money, which breeds a flock focused too much on money...

Without discipleship, the dying to self, is there really a person following God, or a person fooling himself into thinking he is covering the bases, a so-called "eternal life insurance"??

 

[Vince]

Before moving on, I want to deal with one of the errors that has been introduced into this thread.

In speaking of the covetous false teachers and prophets, the Apostle Peter includes this description: "...even denying the Lord who bought them..." Although the passage makes it clear that they are lost, the passage also makes it clear that Jesus died for them.

Jesus, Who enlightens all men and draws all men to Himself, did indeed die for these false teachers and prophets.

 

[francisdesales]

Before moving on, I want to deal with one of the errors that has been introduced into this thread.

In speaking of the covetous false teachers and prophets, the Apostle Peter includes this description: "...even denying the Lord who bought them..." Although the passage makes it clear that they are lost, the passage also makes it clear that Jesus died for them.

Jesus, Who enlightens all men and draws all men to Himself, did indeed die for these false teachers and prophets.

That is true, since Jesus died for the sins of the world, not just saved or "to be saved".

Regards

 

[Elijah674]

Before moving on, I want to deal with one of the errors that has been introduced into this thread.

In speaking of the covetous false teachers and prophets, the Apostle Peter includes this description: "...even denying the Lord who bought them..." Although the passage makes it clear that they are lost, the passage also makes it clear that Jesus died for them.

Jesus, Who enlightens all men and draws all men to Himself, did indeed die for these false teachers and prophets.

Just wondering FORUM, what would be the point for the Godhead to have an Eternal Plan with Eternal forknowledge of who They knew was forknown lost, and then have Christ come to suffer & die for the huge number of Matt. 7's Broadway + ALL the Rev. 17:1-5 ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH ones?? (compilars caps!) How would that be Agape Love even to Christ???

There was the O.T. Lev. 16 scapegoat, yet, that is to deep for most who never read anything other than OSAS, or Church over the Christ of the Church. (Isa. 5)

It might be of some merit (and that still is doubtful) that Christ suffered up to the point of all of these lost ones sin against the Holy Ghost finished point?

And the thread is about wheat & tares, not the flat out Rev. 17:1-5 false garbage can church's who are ALL TARES in Documentation! Rev. 18:4 is their few sincere members last chance, if any are left??

--Elijah

 

[childeye]

Just wondering FORUM, what would be the point for the Godhead to have an Eternal Plan with Eternal forknowledge of who They knew was forknown lost, and then have Christ come to suffer & die for the huge number of Matt. 7's Broadway + ALL the Rev. 17:1-5 ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH ones??

In my view,The Godhead seeks to prove that He is the Holy Godhead, and therefore has established through time and space a testimony as to what happens when He is not regarded as such.