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Reformed Restriction

netchaplain

Member
The entire system known as Judaism, along with all its component parts, is, in the purpose of God, in total abeyance (suspension) throughout this present dispensation, but with definite assurance that the whole Jewish system thus interrupted will be completed by extension into the millennial kingdom, the new earth, and on into eternity to come.

As the Jew has been removed from the place of special privilege which was his in the past dispensation and leveled to the same standing as the Gentile—under sin—so Judaism is to be restored and is to complete its appointed and promised course (Israel’s New Covenant will still be law, statutes and judgments - Jer 31:33; Eze 36:27—NC).

Judaism has its field of theology with its soteriology and its eschatology. That these factors of a system which occupies three-fourths of the Sacred Text are unrecognized and ignored by theologians does not demonstrate their nonexistence, nor does it prove their unimportance. Covenant Theology (those who believe Christians are in a Covenant with God, which is not true, we are recipients of the ‘Covenant of Redemption’, which Covenant is between the Father and the Son—NC) engenders the notion that there is but one soteriology and one eschatology, and that ecclesiology, such as it is conceived to be, extends from the Garden of Eden to the great white throne (many misguided believers try to link the OT saints with the NT saints—NC).

On the other hand, Scripture is harmonized and its message clarified when two divinely appointed systems—Judaism and Christianity—are recognized, and their complete and distinctive characters are observed. No matter how orthodox they may be in matters of inspiration, the Deity of Christ, His virgin birth, and the efficacy of His death, Covenant theologians have not been forward in Bible exposition.

Judaism is not the bud which has blossomed into Christianity. These systems do have features which are common to both—God, holiness, Satan, man, sin, redemption, human responsibility and the issues of eternity—yet they introduce differences so vast that they cannot possibly coalesce.

Each sets up its ground of relationship between God and man—the Jews by physical birth, the Christian by spiritual birth; each provides its instructions on the life of its adherents—the law for Israel, the teachings of grace (Gospel—NC) for the Church; each has its sphere of existence—Israel in the earth for all ages to come, the Church in heaven (Israel for the New Earth, Christians for the New Heaven—NC).

To the end that the Church might be called out from both Jews and Gentiles, a peculiar, unrelated dispensation has been thrust into the one consistent ongoing of the divine program for the earth. It is in this sense that Judaism, which is the abiding portion of the nation Israel, has ceased (Gal 3:24, 25; Heb 7:19; 8:6, 7; 10:9—NC). With the completion and departure of the Church from the earth, Judaism will be again the embodiment of all the divine purpose in the world.

The Reformation regained the truth of the first Pauline revelation, namely, justification by faith alone. But it did not go on to restore the truth contained in the second revelation, namely, that of the Church growth (being saved is only part of God’s desire, the other part is spiritual growth in Christ - Eph 4:15). It is altogether possible that the problems attending the restoration of the first revelation, being so far-reaching and revolutionary as a reaction from the Romish (Roman Catholic doctrine—NC) perversions of truth were all that could be undertaken at one time or by one generation.

Latter studies of the NT developed (mainly through J N Darby) the almost limitless theme of the second revelation (esp. the spiritual growth via the truths in the Pauline Epistles—NC). Unfortunately, however, theologians were unprepared to receive any added truth beyond that gained in the Reformation, and Protestant theology has, by a misguided loyalty to orthodoxy, never received the truth contained in the second revelation (which answers to many immature believers—NC). It has been assumed that this added, more advanced truth is dangerous if it was not included in the Reformation attainments and that it must be in conflict with those attainments.

Early in the history of Protestantism there were individual theologians who caught the first glimpse of truth contained in the second revelation, and an ever increasing light has fallen on this body of truth until today there is a great company of students of doctrine who hold and teach, along with the first revelation, the clear divine unfolding respecting the Church which is the Body of Christ.

Nevertheless, orthodox Reformed theology persists in its original, isolated and exclusive recognition of the first revelation, and continues to reject and condemn as intrusive and disruptive the great certified findings of those theologians who have given their years of study to the second revelation. This second revelation respecting the Church leads with inexorable logic to definite dispensational and general distinctions.

An attack against these distinctions cannot be sustained by recourse to the beliefs of the Reformers; for such is an assumption that there is no progress to be made in the knowledge of truth, that the very light which fell on the Reformers by which they emerged from Romish darkness could not fall upon any others in subsequent years to lead them into wider and deeper fields of understanding of God’s inexhaustible revelation.

There is an inherent weakness disclosed in this attitude. It tends to shirk all responsibility in the direction of advancement of the truth and to deify the writings of the Reformers, apparently forgetting for the moment that these worthy scholars made no claim to inspiration (writing of Scripture—NC) nor did they intend to set up a barrier past which no further investigation in the truth should advance. It is no disrespect to the Reformers or church fathers (true Christians—NC) to maintain an attitude of open-mindedness in the direction of new understanding (deeper truths—NC) of the truth which was not accorded to men of earlier generations (there are leaders that have more growth information that nobody had prior to them—NC).

It yet remains true that in the eternal purpose of God and made possible by the death, resurrection and ascension of Christ, and by the advent of the Spirit, a heavenly people are being called out for a specific heavenly glory. This divine purpose is in no sense the realization of the promises and covenants made unto Israel, yet every promise to that nation will yet be fulfilled (Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:24-27—NC), and apart from these distinctions and anticipations there can be no harmonizing of the divine revelation.

The fact that the Church is a mystery—with regard to the dispensation of her out-calling, the truth that she is the Body of Christ (Col 1:18), the truth that she will be the Bride of Christ (Rev 22:17), and the manner of her departure from this world indicates her distinctive character as separate from all that has gone before or that will follow. The Apostle Paul writes: “Now to Him (God) that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel . . . which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith” (Rom 16:25-27).


—Lewis Sperry Chafer (1871 – 1952)






MJS daily devotional for October 18

“It is well to be done with ourselves and to be taken up with the Lord Jesus. We are entitled to forget ourselves—we are entitled to confess and forget our sins—we are entitled to forget all but the Lord Jesus. It is by looking unto Him that we can give up anything, and can walk as obedient children.” - John Nelson Darby (progenitor of dispensationalism 1800-1882)

“Many think that talking badly of ourselves is the ideal of humility; whereas the simplest and more real humility is to feel unaffectedly that we are too bad to be worth talking about. Only One is worthy of all our thoughts and words and ways, even the Lord Jesus Christ.” - William Kelly (1821-1906)
 
Chafer has a way with words, he uses too many of them.

All that to say he believes the Reformers left some areas unexplored. Of course they did.

But Darby's idea of Judaism distinct from Christianity contradicts Christ and Paul, re "One Faith, One Baptism....One Mediator":

"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. (Jn. 10:16 NKJ)

If I recall correctly, the JWs also distinguish believers, they have the 144,000 "anointed class" who reigns with Christ above the rest of believers.

Such distinctions in the "Church of God" seem unscriptural to me.

If we do not enter the kingdom as a child, we won't enter it:


"Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it." (Mk. 10:15 NKJ)
 
But Darby's idea of Judaism distinct from Christianity contradicts Christ and Paul, re "One Faith, One Baptism....One Mediator":

"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. (Jn. 10:16 NKJ)
Here, you are referring to Jewish and Gentile Christians; and not the Jews who believed in God but not in Christ (Jn 14:1). These are those who will not enter heaven, but will inherit the new earth (Rom 11:26; Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:26, 27).

If I recall correctly, the JWs also distinguish believers, they have the 144,000 "anointed class" who reigns with Christ above the rest of believers.
Rev 7:4-8 are special Christian Jews (Rev 14:1-5); and verse 9 are all the other Jewish and Gentile Christians.

Such distinctions in the "Church of God" seem unscriptural to me.
I'll admit, there is no directly related Scripture to this concept, but a lot of Scripture does seem to infer the saving of Jews who believe in God but not the Lord Jesus.

Just my opinion, but greatly difficult to defend!

Appreciate your instructional reply, and God bless!
 
if a Jew truly believes in God .he would have believed in the Christ .otherwise my grandparents both Jews would be saved despite denying the savior
 
if a Jew truly believes in God .he would have believed in the Christ .otherwise my grandparents both Jews would be saved despite denying the savior
There are Jews who believe in God but not in Christ. "Ye believe in God, believe also in Me. (Jn 14:1). Hard to explain Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:26, 27 prophecies not relating to the Jews, which have not occurred yet.
 
There are Jews who believe in God but not in Christ. "Ye believe in God, believe also in Me. (Jn 14:1). Hard to explain Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:26, 27 prophecies not relating to the Jews, which have not occurred yet.
A Jew these days ,

God has no son,no the moshiac will die and be resurrected .that's taught in the major sects of jewry .

If that is God then it's not the God of Christianity.

Also because I'm a Jew and many did believe where is said that they obeyed the Lord are denied the promise of a restore land in Israel


I'm amil over that I simply can't see Jesus coming back and going oops I gotta save more gentiles and making isreal a type of church .

Undoing and then requiring circumcision and also no male priests a woman couldn't even minister in that millenial era to God in front of him in the temple .never mind the sin atonements of a prince before God and also no king is mentioned over Israel then and also much of the Torah based works is back .
 
A Jew these days ,

God has no son,no the moshiac will die and be resurrected .that's taught in the major sects of jewry .

If that is God then it's not the God of Christianity.

Also because I'm a Jew and many did believe where is said that they obeyed the Lord are denied the promise of a restore land in Israel


I'm amil over that I simply can't see Jesus coming back and going oops I gotta save more gentiles and making isreal a type of church .

Undoing and then requiring circumcision and also no male priests a woman couldn't even minister in that millenial era to God in front of him in the temple .never mind the sin atonements of a prince before God and also no king is mentioned over Israel then and also much of the Torah based works is back .
Sorry, but I do not understand what you are trying to say. Give it another try. Thanks for the reply!
 
Sorry, but I do not understand what you are trying to say. Give it another try. Thanks for the reply!
Modern Jews deny the nature of God as we see him.

No Trinity ,no the Messiah as a man not God .God has no son . That can't be the God of the Bible .

Chafer and his Darby brothers like say Jesus married the church ,the YHWH married isreal.problem is that puts a weird constraint on the Trinity .

Moses saw a vision of Jesus .no man hath seen the father .. it was Jesus who was that Rock at horeb and followed isreal and guided them.
 
What do you mean by the "mil idea."
I don't believe a pre millennialism or post millennialism.

When Jesus speaks of his return in parables or plainly it's never oh I'm just here to judge them set up a kingdom to show mercy .it's more likely the wicked die and are judged .the others added to as the Lord showed it .

I see only one resurrection not a rapture as death will still be in the millennium.of course my position isn't without problems .
 
I don't believe a pre millennialism or post millennialism.

When Jesus speaks of his return in parables or plainly it's never oh I'm just here to judge them set up a kingdom to show mercy .it's more likely the wicked die and are judged .the others added to as the Lord showed it .

I see only one resurrection not a rapture as death will still be in the millennium.of course my position isn't without problems .
Are you referring to the "translation" of the Christians by post or pre millennium?
 
I'll admit, there is no directly related Scripture to this concept, but a lot of Scripture does seem to infer the saving of Jews who believe in God but not the Lord Jesus.

Just my opinion, but greatly difficult to defend!

Appreciate your instructional reply, and God bless!
Belief or non-belief in Christ are the only grounds for salvation or condemnation (Matthew 21:42; Mark 12:10; John 3:16-18; 5:24; 14:6; 20:31; Acts 4:11-12; Rom. 10:9; 1 Tim. 2:5-6; 1 Peter 2:6-8; 1 John 5:11-12), that also logically follows from God sacrificing His Only Begotten Son so all who believe in Him, can be saved. If they could be saved by another belief, God wouldn't have sacrificed His Son.

All Israel will be saved because the Deliverer will come from Zion even into hell to rescue them after they repent and believe:

26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,
31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! (Rom. 11:26-33 NKJ)

For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:6 NKJ)

27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. (Heb. 9:27-28 NKJ)


The Rich man in Hades represented Pharisees who died not believing in Christ, but from the fact Abraham and other redeemed wanted to cross over into Hades and comfort him proves he was not irredeemable, suffering eternal torment.


The rich man will rise when Hades is emptied out, and be judged. Many will be saved that day, that is why the book of life is opened, so those whose names were written in (because they repented in Hell), could rise to the resurrection of life:

13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:13-15 NKJ)

They heard Christ's voice (the Gospels was preached to them) while in the grave, and repented of their unbelief:

28 "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 "and come forth-- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. (Jn. 5:28-29 NKJ)


All that is truly Israel, the "Israel of God" both Jew and Gentile, will be saved. Not one of them will be lost. Death has no victory:

55 "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?"
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Cor. 15:55-57 NKJ)





 
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Belief or non-belief in Christ are the only grounds for salvation or condemnation
I know there's not much direct Scripture related to this issue, it could be that God is not revealing much concerning Israel's eschatology for some reason. It's my understanding that Jews who believe in God (Jn 14:1) but not in Christ yet (until they see Him) will not be going to heaven (even after seeing Him later) but the new earth, not being in the state of Sonship. Scripture is clear that one must believe in the Lord Jesus in this life to inherit heaven.

Believing in God for the Jew is what will save them, but not in the same way Christians are saved. I believe I see enough Scripture (and there's a lot of past Christian authors (1600-1800s) that also believed this state) to infer that Israel (believers in God) will be saved (I can't relate Israel as the Church or Body of Christ, it's too often that there is continuous ethnic differences between them in Scripture). One strong issue is that Christians are not in a covenant with God, but are recipients of the Covenant of Redemption, which is a covenant between the Father and the Son, of which Christians will be recipients. This New Covenant concerns the Father raising the Son after redeeming those who will believe in Them.

The prophecies of Jerimiah 31:31-3 and Eze 36:25-27 are future and will be the final New Covenant with Israel, different from God's present New Covenant in the Blood of the Lord Jesus.

I will admit that I'm almost on the fence with this issue, but there's too much Scripture that seems to relate to this issue for now with me. It's a no-brainer that most will not believe in all this, but that's just my opinion (and for the last 25 years).

Thanks for your instructional replies and God bless!
 
I know there's not much direct Scripture related to this issue, it could be that God is not revealing much concerning Israel's eschatology for some reason. It's my understanding that Jews who believe in God (Jn 14:1) but not in Christ yet (until they see Him) will not be going to heaven (even after seeing Him later) but the new earth, not being in the state of Sonship. Scripture is clear that one must believe in the Lord Jesus in this life to inherit heaven.

Believing in God for the Jew is what will save them, but not in the same way Christians are saved. I believe I see enough Scripture (and there's a lot of past Christian authors (1600-1800s) that also believed this state) to infer that Israel (believers in God) will be saved (I can't relate Israel as the Church or Body of Christ, it's too often that there is continuous ethnic differences between them in Scripture). One strong issue is that Christians are not in a covenant with God, but are recipients of the Covenant of Redemption, which is a covenant between the Father and the Son, of which Christians will be recipients. This New Covenant concerns the Father raising the Son after redeeming those who will believe in Them.

The prophecies of Jerimiah 31:31-3 and Eze 36:25-27 are future and will be the final New Covenant with Israel, different from God's present New Covenant in the Blood of the Lord Jesus.

I will admit that I'm almost on the fence with this issue, but there's too much Scripture that seems to relate to this issue for now with me. It's a no-brainer that most will not believe in all this, but that's just my opinion (and for the last 25 years).

Thanks for your instructional replies and God bless!
Jeremiah 31:31ff is cited in Hebrews, as applying to Jews, alive in the first century:

14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,"
17 then He adds, "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."
18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh,
21 and having a High Priest over the house of God,
22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. (Heb. 10:14-23 NKJ)


The Reformers were Catholics, protesting against abuses in the Catholic church. Much of what they believed about heaven and hell is "Catholic", which is different than Jewish Christian beliefs seen in the New Testament.

The view I cited is essentially from the Hillite School, that Christ is very familiar with and in fact, friendly towards:

Then He said to them, "Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old." (Matt. 13:52 NKJ)

Paul was a student of this school, tutored Gamaliel:

"I am indeed a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the strictness of our fathers' law, and was zealous toward God as you all are today. (Acts 22:3 NKJ)

If you want a 1st century scriptural view of how Jews are saved, the NT reveals that perfectly as it was written by Jews who converted to Christ, a Jew:

"You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. (Jn. 4:22 NKJ)


In other words, I agree with Darby's fundamental complaint the reformers didn't get everything right, especially about eschatology.

For example, you speak of going to heaven as though that is the Christian hope....but Our hope is to be in God's Kingdom, which will come and God will be done on earth, even as it is in heaven:

9 "In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. (Matt. 6:9-10 NKJ)


1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
4 "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
(Rev. 21:1-4 NKJ)

Catholic eschatology permeates Protestant belief, and actually is heretical. Its ironic they decry the NT beliefs I teach, clearly taught in Scripture, as heresy.

But as Christ said, people prefer the "old wine" even if it actually is a Catholic corruption of the truth of Scripture.
 
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Jeremiah 31:31ff is cited in Hebrews, as applying to Jews, alive in the first century:
The Covenant God made with Israel was after them coming out of Egypt at Mt Saini; and it was not termed a "new covenant," because it was the original covenant under the Law (13th-14th centuries).
The Reformers were Catholics, protesting against abuses in the Catholic church. Much of what they believed about heaven and hell is "Catholic", which is different than Jewish Christian beliefs seen in the New Testament.
Not to oppose your opinions personally, only Christians have Christian truth, not Jews nor the RCC. Only true Christians possess truth; all others mix truth with error.
Catholic eschatology permeates Protestant belief, and actually is heretical. Its ironic they decry the NT beliefs I teach, clearly taught in Scripture, as heresy.

But as Christ said, people prefer the "old wine" even if it actually is a Catholic corruption of the truth of Scripture.
So far, only Protestants proclaim the Gospel and its doctrines; but I agree with you that Protestants are a bit lacking in teaching the spiritual growth truths that are contained within the Pauline Epistles (Romans-Philemon). I believe this answers to why so many are discouraged and leave the Church.
 
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