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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Refuting Preterism
- Thread starter n2thelight
- Start date
Wondering JLB if you would ever take the time .. a borning day when ya got no nothen to do... and read the scripture ( for lack of better words) from my time table... Thinking on a couple points... How long was the earthly ministery of the Prince of Peace ... What is the time in years from The Crucifixion/Resurrection to the destruction of Jerusalem 70 AD.....Why did Jesus say or what did He mean when He said
Mat_16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Did God ever destroy Jerusalem with a warning? the ol hey guys this is coming ...
The Gospel has gone out around the globe... Does this passage only apply to those physically living in the area?
Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Why when the Scripture clearly says point blank
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Why do we put so much of what is says to antichrist which is never mentioned in The Revelation....
I am not being a smart allick asking i am asking because these are some of the question i asked of myself and others15-20 years ago...
I am not asking you to post any answers just give it some thought... just in your own head...
Having had my head about where yours is i fully get why you think what you do... I am not looking for posted answers nor the return of the flash of questions ... Like it or not i am yoru sister in the Lord even if i am 999,000 years old
It is also written in the last days "I will pour out my Spirit..." The Fathers promise Jesus spoke of. Did you receive that promise as in we are still in these last days?
The false prophet and the angel of the abyss are mentioned in REV as in what is still to come. (anti-Christ; manor lawlessness) The bowl judgments are the last judgments of God and with them Gods wrath is complete. Read Rev 15 and Rev 16. Also those judgments are the judgments that plunge the beasts kingdom into darkness. At the end the Lord returns as is stated in 2thess for the great battle of God almighty. Zech 14 also mentions those days to come. Mount of Olives split in two pieces by Gods will to make a way of escape from Jerusalem from the surrounding armies. It all ends the same (outcome) with the 2nd coming of the Lord Rev 16:15; 2thess 2:8 Daniel 12:1- (The lord also stated He would send out His angels
Mark 9:1 has a little different wording. Could the Lord have been speaking of Acts 2??
I believe Rev 11 is a future sign that can't be mistaken. It speaks of a temple (outer court as well) That temple could be rebuilt by unbelievers in future years.
I was hopping JLB but i see you will not ... I spent 40 some years in your line of thinking... it is not new to me. I wont bug you again for a long time....
Could you share with me what you see in this scripture, that leads you to believe Jesus could have come in 70 AD?
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28
JLB
Deborah13
Member
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Is there a difference between the Son of man's kingdom and God's kingdom?
It seems to me that if one takes the temple in Rev 11 to be a literal future temple, then the two witnesses must have literal fire coming out of their mouths. Then it seems to me one must take the scripture below literally as well. Not decide that it is talking about modern weaponry.
Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
There are those who believe Rev. reads in chronological order as well. Would that mean that these scorpions will appear on the earth before the temple is built?
Yes.
There is no mention of "antichrist" in The Revelation.
Many Christians view the scriptures differently from one another... They are written so well the discussions have been going on for thousands of years.
What many see as the God wrath on the earth( the people left when He returns) i see a judgement for the murder of His Son .... IMO that is why it was "this" generation...
I will not get into a big discussion becasue of the moderating duties i kinda just give my opinion and then bite my tongue
The discussion is fascinating. That the Word is written the way it is is also...
Nope. There is no discussion WITH you.
Typical Preterist.
Yes.
There is no mention of "antichrist" in The Revelation.
Many Christians view the scriptures differently from one another... They are written so well the discussions have been going on for thousands of years.
What many see as the God wrath on the earth( the people left when He returns) i see a judgement for the murder of His Son .... IMO that is why it was "this" generation...
I will not get into a big discussion becasue of the moderating duties i kinda just give my opinion and then bite my tongue
The generation that see's the signs that Jesus foretold of, will also see the Son of Man coming in power and great glory.
The scriptures teach us He will come once more.
The scriptures teach us every eye will see Him.
JLB
Sinthesis
Member
Jesus' first coming is 'the new thing under the sun', so that when identifying type/antitype relationships it is most often the case that we need to also identify how the futility of the type is translated into the triumph of the antitype through Jesus. This is why I no longer fear for some future overall apostasy of Christianity. Whereas if under the law this would be assured, under the Grace of the Holy Spirit given through Christ it is impossible. The Church will not fail God as Temple Judaism did.
Deborah13
Member
Nice, thanks.
Deborah13
Member
Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: [the nation of Israel] [the leaders of Israel]
Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. [the Messiah, the first fruits]
Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. [the leaders kill the prophets of God]
Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. [the Messiah]
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. [they in effect cast the Messiah out of Israel]
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. [He will destroy that husbandmen, of the nation of Israel. He will turn to other husbandmen, that will believe and bear fruit. I believe these other husbandmen were the Apostles, and their fruit continues to multiply to this day.]
Notice the 'they say'. Jesus was talking to the Pharisees and by their own judgement of this parable they passed the sentence on themselves, which is actually a prophecy of their words at the trial of the Messiah.
Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
"neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in"
There are many influential men in the Church with lots of money at their disposal, I wish they'd get it.
Please share with us the scripture that states under grace it is impossible for a person or a group of people to turn away from Christ.
JLB
Like i have said many times The gospel is spread so many more of God's people today then a 1000 year ago....
I like the positive nature of the Bible guys and so many solid preachers i guess from the time of Moses to today..
Joh_12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Rev_7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
n2thelight
Member
I can't agree with that,as the apostasy shall,not maybe,but shall come again.....Most of the Church will,and even now,are already deceived....
Matthew 24:11 "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many."
Matthew 24:12 "And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
The "iniquity", is "lawlessness" of turning away from God's Word. It will multiply because of the apostasy, or falling away from God's Holy Word.
Matthew 7:22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works'.
Matthew 7:23 "And then will I profess unto them, 'I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity' ."
Amos 8:11 "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:"
This is the famine Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24:7, and Mark 13:8; it is not for food or drink, "but for the hearing of the Word of the Lord". This famine is here and now.
Amos 8:12 "And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it."
Zechariah 8:23 "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; 'In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, 'We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.' ' "
These "ten men" that come out of the nations of the whole world are "ten horns of power". They are the ten horns, or authorities [agencies] of power that will give their authority in support of Satan the Antichrist. This is also discussed in Daniel's vision of the ten horns. This word for "men" in the Hebrew text is "enosh", which as used in Numbers 31:35 is not areas of areas of land, or nations, but men of authority of governmental entities, units of government which control the entire earth.
I Corinthians 10:6 "Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted."
These things that were written about in the Old Testament concerning Moses and the Prophets were examples or types to show us what we could expect in our generation.
I Chronicles 2:55 "And the families of the scribes which dwelt at Jabez [Jerusalem]; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, and Suchathites. These are the Kenites that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab."
"Hemath" the land of the offspring of Cain is the land of the Kenites, and these Kenites are "of the house or nation of Rechab", not of the house or nations of Israel. They are the ones that had taken over the duties of the Levitical scribes, and are keeping the records of God's people. Think of it, the ones that Jesus addressed in John 8:44 are the offspring of these same Kenites that had taken over the priesthood some 600 years earlier.
Ezra 8:15 "And I gathered them together to the river that runneth to Ahava; and there abode we in tents three days: and I viewed the People, and the priests, and found there none of the sons of Levi."
Ezra was leading a wagon train, much the same way that early America was settled, and three days out of Babylon they came to a river and Ezra decided to pause and account for all the people and supplies that were in the group returning to Jerusalem. Remember that the purpose of returning to Jerusalem was to build the Temple, the streets and the walls to reestablish the worship as it was. However, there were noLevitical priests to perform the worship service the way that God required. All of the priesthood had been taken over by these Nethinims [strangers], who we know were the Kenites of the three families recorded in I Chronicles 2:55.
So why are we going through all this history? Because Paul has told us that what we are going to see happening in the latter days are going to be as it was written in the Old Testament. These thing are "ensamples" or types of what we are witnessing today. People that are strangers to our Lord Jesus Christ are going to assume the roles of God's ministers and transform or disguise themselves into ministers of light. We read of this in II Corinthians 11:14, 15.
II Corinthians 11:14 "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."
The word "transformed" in the Greek text is #3345 in the Strong's Greek dictionary; "Metachematizo, met-as-trif'-o; to transfigure or disguise." It is to modify or change into something that you are not. Satan will appear to be the True Christ, when in fact he is just the same old snake that he was back in the garden of Eden, out to trick those that do not have the seal of the Word of God in their minds, into worshipping him as the Messiah Jesus Christ.
I Corinthians 10:11 "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."
"Ensamples" in the manuscripts is the Greek word "tupos", number 5179 in the Strong's Greek dictionary. "a sample, or type; i.e. a model for imitation, a fashion, for manner, or form." So Paul is telling us that those things that we read about in the Old Testament, of the events of the prophets of old are examples of what we should be looking for in our day. This is written to alert all people to be aware of how it shall be before Christ returns. What was written in the Exodus, or in Amos is written as examples for our admonition or warning. All of the Scriptures is given as a warning to those who are living in the times of the ends of this world age of the flesh. We will see the end of the flesh age come to a close, and there are many things that will come to pass right before our eyes that were written about in detail way back in the Old Testament time, and Paul is telling you and I to wake up to those warnings.
God did not leave us helpless nor hopeless in these end times, and that is why we must become skilled in all of His Word. It is all an example of what is going to befall us in our generation
ezrider
Member
I think when you read the account of Stephen in Acts 6-7, you will find that those scriptures pretty much paint a picture of Stephen. Acts 6:8
Act 7:51-57 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost:as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord
Deborah13
Member
ezrider
Member
Went back and read my post. I don't understand your response.
The account of Stephen in the book of Acts is the account of someone who would have been alive at the time Jesus spoke those words, and truly, he did not taste of death until he had seen the kingdom of God come with power.