Reincarnation and early Christians.....

[Soma-Sight]

Funny that- my body is made of the same elements as everything else in the universe. Since God created it all, and since He saw it and sees it as "good," I need not be concerned about being tainted by creation.

On the other hand, those who destroy God's creation with impunity through pollution, excess, and callous disregard- these will have something to answer for and to.

Good point!

Very Good!

 

[Karma2Grace]

I'm at a loss as to how you can infer that Osama and the practitioners of Yoga are on the same playing field.

I am not saying they are in same playing field; consensus serves nothing here, there is something beyond our consensus which is ‘Truth’. Osama is explicit, Yoga is implicit! , Yoga is a spiritual murder!

So why does Paul tell us that we could surrender our bodies to be burned- i.e., be martyred- and have not love- and thus be nothing?

I don’t understand you statement

I'm one with my wife's flesh, yet I do not worship her. Keep in mind that I have not advocated worshipping creation

Funny, How about having a sex outside marriage (well here also no worshipping but having union with other forbidden body)
If Obtaining power from creation (which is fallen and controlled by fallen angels) is not an Evil then what is evil according to you? .

I read some things literally, some symbolically

So how others defer from you? , Because they say literal when you say symbolic?

Thanks

 

[Karma2Grace]

John 17:21 (New International Version)
That all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

What is wrong with this verse, Jesus is asking His Father to take His sheep’s (chosen people) to heaven so that they can be with Him for eternity.

There is NO union with God, so called ‘union’ in Christianity is entirely different from Union is eastern, Here union means being with Christ (we will still hold our identity and we will NOT be a god)

As a contrary, Easter mysticism teaches that Union means becoming God (Just a drop of water in the ocean) so after attaining oneness you will become god and lose your identity

BTW I have a interesting question for you , If eastern philosophy is true then what is the difference between being union with God (attaining Moksha) or being reincarnated as a mosquito (because of bad karma) both the wise you lose your identity and consciousness.

Thanks

 

[Soma-Sight]

If Obtaining power from creation (which is fallen and controlled by fallen angels) is not an Evil then what is evil according to you? .

So I guess you dont eat food?

 

[Karma2Grace]

John 17:21 (New International Version)
That all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

What is wrong with this verse, Jesus is asking His Father to take His sheep’s (chosen people) to heaven so that they can be with Him for eternity.

There is NO union with God, so called ‘union’ in Christianity is entirely different from Union is eastern, Here union means being with Christ (we will still hold our identity and we will NOT be a god)

As a contrary, Easter mysticism teaches that Union means becoming God (Just a drop of water in the ocean) so after attaining oneness you will become god and lose your identity

BTW I have a interesting question for you , If eastern philosophy is true then what is the difference between being union with God (attaining Moksha) or being reincarnated as a mosquito (because of bad karma) both the wise you lose your identity and consciousness.

Thanks

 

[Karma2Grace]

So I guess you don’t eat food?

Well God never forbid eating from earth, He DID forbid worshipping creation, HE did forbid sorcery or contacting other sprits or astral travel

Deuteronomy 18:10 "No one among you is to make his son or daughter pass through the fire, practice divination, tell fortunes, interpret omens, practice sorcery,

Deuteronomy 18:11 "cast spells, consult a medium or a familiar spirit, or inquire of the dead.â€Â


I heard you said , You see angels and demons during your astral travel, You better watch out and make no mistake , Both are Evils , One is just pretend to be an angel

2Co 11:14 "for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light"

Thanks

 

[Orthodox Christian]

If Obtaining power from creation (which is fallen and controlled by fallen angels) is not an Evil then what is evil according to you? .

So I guess you dont eat food?

Not if it's been exposed to Yoga.

I also try to avoid devil's food cake.

 

[Soma-Sight]

BTW I have a interesting question for you , If eastern philosophy is true then what is the difference between being union with God (attaining Moksha) or being reincarnated as a mosquito (because of bad karma) both the wise you lose your identity and consciousness.

I guess the union of God is preferable because a Mosquito still is in the realm of suffering and is subject to death.

As a contrary, Easter mysticism teaches that Union means becoming God (Just a drop of water in the ocean) so after attaining oneness you will become god and lose your identity

Xtianity alludes to this as we are made out to be "Sons of God" beyond birth and death and a separate existance.....

both imply perfection and being in the presence of the Lord......

I for one believe that spritual realities will have infinite possibilities! Why could you NOT leave your body for a bit and be part of the Spirit of God? Why is this so evil and scary?

In eternity you would get board with the same old body..... I believe it possible to experience life in infinite forms!

Why is that so bad?

Is the body of Christ limited to the body of Jesus? IS God really that finite?

The Gita alludes to the fact that the ignorant believe the Godhead can be contained in a single finite form.........

What is wrong with this verse, Jesus is asking His Father to take His sheep’s (chosen people) to heaven so that they can be with Him for eternity.

Once again this is not bad either! You would get no complaints out of me being in the Kingdom of Heaven in a body!

I just dont limit the eternal wisdom of God to that simplicity for the human race!

I beleive we need to be humble and not think that we have the "correct" view on what heaven will be like......

It wont be like anyone thinks most likely.......

 

[Soma-Sight]

Well God never forbid eating from earth, He DID forbid worshipping creation, HE did forbid sorcery or contacting other sprits or astral travel

What do you make of this verse?

Is Paul using the ancient sorcery of satanic astral travel here?

2 Corinthians 12:2 (New International Version)

2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not knowâ€â€God knows.



You seem to place Satan above God in these cases......

You imply that demons control the higher spiritual planes and Good angels couldnt possibly be seen........

I disagree with that point.......

 

[Lyric's Dad]

So yoga is 'Satanic,' and to be avoided. How about Chinese checkers?
Should I avoid certain types of ethnic foods?

Seriously, though, It seems that the inner journey of yoga can provoke mental distress and illness in the unstable.

I'd say the same thing is true about a fundamentalist approach to religion.

:

I did not expect you would agree in this area. It makes perfect sense.

Still, eastern pagan religious practices are abominable and against the truth of Christ.

 

[Karma2Grace]

“I guess the union of God is preferable because a Mosquito still is in the realm of suffering and is subject to death.â€Â

Why care about mosquito because it is not you it is something else , See the problem in reincarnation is , You don’t know what went wrong in your last reincarnation(You have reincarnated this time because you failed last time) , since you don’t know the problem so you don’t know the solution either!! So what are you doing?
Karma works like a bank account if you commit an adultery and help a poor then your adultery is Gone! It is a way of saying, you can buy karma by your wealth that is why the rich westerner (especially Hollywood) living in the coma of New Age!
The eastern false teacher will encourage a westerner to not to bother about sin (they will say it is part of God and it is Karma!) but to live in rituals like chanting, Yoga or Seva. “Just try your best, Live in your sinful life but keep all the rituals (Pay me often!) If you don’t get it this time then you can better do it next time (I hope both will meet in Hell!!) “

“I for one believe that spiritual realities will have infinite possibilities! Why could you NOT leave your body for a bit and be part of the Spirit of God? Why is this so evil and scary?
In eternity you would get board with the same old body..... I believe it possible to experience life in infinite forms!â€Â

Sounds like a honey coated word of Satan; I don’t want to unite my sprite (which is owned by God) with some unknown sprit of fallen angel!

“Is the body of Christ limited to the body of Jesus? IS God really that finite?â€Â

Christ is not a consciousness, Christ means “The Anointed Oneâ€Â, As God, Jesus is not finite

“The Gita alludes to the fact that the ignorant believe the Godhead can be contained in a single finite form.........â€Â

Don’t teach me Gita, As I said, I am from India , I know in India we have self declaring gods in every streets and get exposed in the papers when they do adultery or theft

“I believe we need to be humble and not think that we have the "correct" view on what heaven will be like......â€Â

I don’t assume how we will be in heaven, When the Sadducees asked the same question t Jesus he replied

Mark 12: 25 “…but are like angels in heavenâ€Â

Angels are not gods, they are not worthy of Worship

Thanks

 

[bibleberean]

Reincarnation is not a biblical doctrine.

Jews are apostates and are as far from Salvation as the east is from the west.

People who teach and preach reincarnation do not do so from the scriptures.

What a crock of dung... :roll:

 

[Karma2Grace]

2 Corinthians 12:2 (New International Version)

2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not knowâ€â€God knows.

How do you came to the conclusion that it is astral travel, Paul is having this experience on the road to Damascus, He encounter a Near Death situation, He never knows whether he was alive or dead while having that vision. It is certainly not through YOGA if so Paul would have definitely described it rather bible condemns astral travel or sprit guidance.

What is your stand on that? If you believe Paul had out of body experience through the above verse then how do you explain the other passages from bible?

"Jesus is the only way"
"Sorcery or astrology is evil"
"Salvation is ONLY by the blood of Christ"
“Not by works but by Graceâ€Â

Thanks

 

[DivineNames]

There is NO union with God, so called ‘union’ in Christianity is entirely different from Union is eastern, Here union means being with Christ (we will still hold our identity and we will NOT be a god)

As a contrary, Easter mysticism teaches that Union means becoming God (Just a drop of water in the ocean) so after attaining oneness you will become god and lose your identity

"We become Christ's limbs or members, and Christ becomes our members... Unworthy though I be, my hand and foot are Christ. I move my hand, and my hand is wholly Christ, for God's divinity is united inseparably to me. I move my foot, and lo! it glows like God himself." (St. Simeon Neotheologos)

"O abyss! O eternal Godhead! O deep sea! What more could you have given me than the gift of your very self?...[presumably she means that the Self is God]... This water is a mirror in which you, eternal Trinity, grant me knowledge: for when I look into this mirror, holding it in the hand of love, it shows me myself, as your creation, in you, and you in me through the union you have brought about of the Godhead with our humanity." (Saint Catherine of Siena)

From these two quotes above, it seems that the Trinity has a "unity" with the material creation.

"This identity out of the One into the One and with the One is the source and fountainhead and breaking forth of glowing Love." (Eckhart)

"it is of the very essence of the soul that she is powerless to plumb the depths of her creator. Henceforth I shall not speak about the soul, for she has lost her name yonder in the oneness of divine essence. There she is no more called soul: she is called infinite being." (Eckhart)

Eckhart seems to be saying that an aspect of the Self is identical with the Absolute, which is very close to Advaita Vedanta (I say "aspect of the Self" and "close to Advaita" because Eckhart does qualify his position at other times)

"The Father ceaselessly begets his Son and, what is more, he begets me not only as his Son but as himself and himself as myself, begetting me in his own nature, his own being. At that inmost Source, I spring from the Holy Spirit and there is one life, one being, one action. All God's works are one and therefore He begets me as he does his Son and without distinction." (Eckhart)

"I find in this divine birth that God and I are the same: I am what I was and what I shall always remain, now and forever. I am transported above the highest angels; I neither decrease nor increase, for in this birth I have become the motionless cause of all that moves. I have won back what has always been mine. Here, in my own soul, the greatest of all miracles has taken place - God has returned to God!" (Eckhart)

"...There the Godhead is, in simple essence, without activity; Eternal Rest, Unconditioned Dark, the Nameless Being, the Super-essence of all created things." (Ruysbroeck)

i.e. the ultimate essence of everything is the Absolute. (Eckhart and Ruysbroeck use the term "Godhead" for the Absolute)

"My Me is God, nor do I recognize any other Me except my God Himself." (St. Catherine of Genoa)

"The Word was made man that we might be made God" (St Athanasius)

"Though I have said before that we are one with God... yet now I will say that we must eternally remain other than God... And we must understand and feel both within us, if all is to be right with us." (Ruysbroeck)

So we find in at least some Christian mystics a qualified identity with God. Compared with the various schools of Vedanta, (the most prominent philosophy within Hinduism), this appears to be somewhere in the middle, so to speak.


(Copy/paste from one of my own previous posts)

 

[bibleberean]

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Eastern mystics along with alleged Christian mystics are fools who don't know scripture.

The bible does not teach reincarnation. It teaches resurrection...

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Many Hindu mystics worship cows. I imagine they have a deep reverance for Bull manure... :

 

[Orthodox Christian]

"We become Christ's limbs or members, and Christ becomes our members... Unworthy though I be, my hand and foot are Christ. I move my hand, and my hand is wholly Christ, for God's divinity is united inseparably to me. I move my foot, and lo! it glows like God himself." (St. Simeon Neotheologos)

To which "Bibleberean"- ie, the guy who squares it with scripture, says the following:

Eastern mystics along with alleged Christian mystics are fools who don't know scripture.

Um, yeah. Christian mystics like Paul?

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

I guess that Christian mystic, St Simeon the New Theologian, whom you call a fool, is a fool for Christ who knew the scriptures- as opposed to fools who are predisposed to call others fools while appearing the fool.

Let the reader understand.

 

[bibleberean]

Paul was not one of the current crop of buffoons who were mystics. Paul was a follower of Christ.

He was not a worshipper of the Queen of Heaven and not a man bowed down and prayed to or through paintings and statues.

One of the reason the OC and RCC is apostate is because of the unbiblical practices of it's satanically influenced visionaries.


Back to the topic

Reincarnation is not biblical and that is the truth.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[Karma2Grace]

You seem to place Satan above God in these cases......

You imply that demons control the higher spiritual planes and Good angels couldnt possibly be seen........

I disagree with that point.......

Yes some of the high spiritual planes occupied by Satan and Fallen Angels, Here are the examples from the scripture

Ro 8:38 “For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor ANGELS, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers “

Eph 6:12 “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the HEAVENLY placesâ€Â

Daniel 10:13 "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persiaâ€Â
(Here Gabriel was stopped by Satan when he brought the message from God, Then he was helped by Michael)

Bible scholars believe that there are three levels of heaven (It is a total speculation supported by different verses)

1st Heaven is what wee see, Birds and flights will fly
2nd Heaven is from where Dark forces operate
3rd Heaven is from where God’s lives

Thanks

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Paul was not one of the current crop of buffoons who were mystics. Paul was a follower of Christ.

He was not a worshipper of the Queen of Heaven and not a man bowed down and prayed to or through paintings and statues.

Neither of these had the least to do with the topic. Do you reserve for yourself then right of last word on departures from topics that you instigate, simultaneously tossing in other departures? Just trying to understand how this works.

One of the reason the OC and RCC is apostate is because of the unbiblical practices of it's satanically influenced visionaries.

Oh no you don't drop in the OC and one of its visionaries- whom I had just confirmed from scripture as speaking straight-up Pauline mystical theology-then claim both the Church and St Simeon are unbiblical and satanic.

then execute a 'return to subject' dictum.

That's very poor debate etiquette.

We both know full well that neither the OC or the CC embrace reincarnation in any sense, so both are and were irrelevant to your, erm, rebuttal.

Back to the topic

Reincarnation is not biblical and that is the truth.

I agree. The distinctive of Jewish and Christian thinking regarding life is that our thinking on the matter is linear: this age has a beginning, and an end. This is quite unlike other religion, who have watched the cycles of life and extrapolated them out into eternity. They have good reason to do so- space and time are curved, the world goes round in circles, the seasons come and go predictably, the orb of the sun arcs through the sky...

But we speak of eternity, which is outside of space and time. To enter eternity, we believe there is a terminus of the cycle for all of us. We believe that this is a one time deal, according to scripture and according to the tradition of the Church.

Origen dabbled with the idea of reincarnation, and for this and for his perspective on UR, he was roundly anathemized by Epiphanios. He was a father of Christian exegesis an a fantastic mind, but he was also given to heresies. One can understand how and why when one considers that he was a pioneer in Christian theology. This is why Church Fathers shed light on theological ideas, but their works and sayings are NOT canon.

 

[bibleberean]

There is no biblical support for reincarnation.

You can count on the OC and RCC to remain in a total state of denial.

Their Jesus is not the true Jesus. Their apostles are myths and their church is based on lies.

Total apostates.

Twice dead false teachers and prophets.