Replacement Theology

[JudaicChristian]

The Hebrews are a race and the Jews are a creed.
________________________________________
The Hebrews are a race and the Jews are a creed. It seems that most people do not know that there is a difference. The Hebrews who came out of Egypt along with other peoples were called Jews. A Hebrew may or may not be a Jew.

Genesis 17:3. Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4 "As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you.
Romans 4:13. It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspringâ€â€not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believedâ€â€the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.
Exodus 12:37. The Israelites journeyed from Rameses to Succoth. There were about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children. 38 Many other people went up with them, as well as large droves of livestock, both flocks and herds.
Leviticus 19:34
The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 24:22
You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.
Numbers 15:15
The community is to have the same rules for you and for the alien living among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the alien shall be the same before the LORD.
Joshua 8:33
All Israel, aliens and citizens alike, with their elders, officials and judges, were standing on both sides of the ark of the covenant of the LORD, facing those who carried itâ€â€the priests, who were Levites. Half of the people stood in front of Mount Gerizim and half of them in front of Mount Ebal, as Moses the servant of the LORD had formerly commanded when he gave instructions to bless the people of Israel.
Isaiah 14:1
The LORD will have compassion on Jacob; once again he will choose Israel and will settle them in their own land. Aliens will join them and unite with the house of Jacob.
Isaiah 44:5
One will say, 'I belong to the LORD ';another will call himself by the name of Jacob; still another will write on his hand, 'The LORD's,' and will take the name Israel.
Ezekiel 47
21 "You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who have settled among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe the alien settles, there you are to give him his inheritance," declares the Sovereign LORD.
Ephesians 2:19
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household,...
Isaiah 56:3
Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely exclude me from his people."--- 6 And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant-

7 these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations."

8 The Sovereign LORD declares he who gathers the exiles of Israel: "I will gather still others to them besides those already gathered."
Romans 9:6
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.
1 Corinthians 14:21
In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.

Ephesians 2:12
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

Ephesians 2:19.
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household,
Ephesians 3:6. This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
Romans 3:29.
Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,

Romans 9:24.
even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

Romans 10:12.
For there is no difference between Jew and Gentileâ€â€the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,

Galatians 3:28.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11.
Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

Revelation 2:9.
I know your afflictions and your povertyâ€â€yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9.
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liarsâ€â€I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

Acts 3:25.
And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, 'Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.'

Romans 8:17.
Now if we are children, then we are heirsâ€â€heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Galatians 3:29.
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Ephesians 3:6.
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Titus 3:7.
so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
3 You have enlarged the nation and increased their joy; they rejoice before you as people rejoice at the harvest, as men rejoice when dividing the plunder. ******* 15 You have enlarged the nation, O LORD; you have enlarged the nation. You have gained glory for yourself; you have extended all the borders of the land.

Romans 10:19. Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says, "I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;

Esther 8:17. In every province and in every city, wherever the edict of the king went, there was joy and gladness among the Jews, with feasting and celebrating. And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

Psalm 2:8.
Ask of me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession.

Psalm 18:43. You have delivered me from the attacks of the people; you have made me the head of nations; people I did not know are subject to me.

Psalm 82:8. Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.

Psalm 111:6. He has shown his people the power of his works, giving them the lands of other nations.

Zechariah 2:10. "Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you," declares the LORD. 11 "Many nations will be joined with the LORD in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me to you. 12 The LORD will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land and will again choose Jerusalem. 13 Be still before the LORD, all mankind, because he has roused himself from his holy dwelling."

Zechariah 8:23. This is what the LORD Almighty says: "In those days ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, 'Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.' "

Matthew 12:2. 1In his name the nations will put their hope."

Romans 4:18. Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be."

Romans 9:8. In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring."What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others." When the people heard this, they said, "May this never be!"

 

[JudaicChristian]

Im sorry but I could not edit the page to read better. The Editor has glitches. :crazy

 

[JudaicChristian]

The Sadducees were members of a Jewish sect founded in the second century BC, possibly as a political party. They ceased to exist sometime after the first century AD.

Zechariah 11:7 So I pastured the flock marked for slaughter, particularly the oppressed of the flock. Then I took two staffs and called one Favor and the other Union, and I pastured the flock. 8 In one month I got rid of the three shepherds.
The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them 9 and said, "I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another's flesh."

10 Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations. 11 It was revoked on that day, and so the afflicted of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word of the LORD.

Thus the Three Shepherds: Sanhedrin, Sadducees, and Pharisees.

 

[Sinthesis]

The Sadducees were members of a Jewish sect founded in the second century BC, possibly as a political party. They ceased to exist sometime after the first century AD.

Zechariah 11:7 So I pastured the flock marked for slaughter, particularly the oppressed of the flock. Then I took two staffs and called one Favor and the other Union, and I pastured the flock. 8 In one month I got rid of the three shepherds.
The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them 9 and said, "I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another's flesh."

10 Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations. 11 It was revoked on that day, and so the afflicted of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word of the LORD.

Thus the Three Shepherds: Sanhedrin, Sadducees, and Pharisees.

What is Your Point? And no, I dont agree with your interpretation.

 

[JudaicChristian]

The Sadducees were members of a Jewish sect founded in the second century BC, possibly as a political party. They ceased to exist sometime after the first century AD.

Zechariah 11:7 So I pastured the flock marked for slaughter, particularly the oppressed of the flock. Then I took two staffs and called one Favor and the other Union, and I pastured the flock. 8 In one month I got rid of the three shepherds.
The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them 9 and said, "I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another's flesh."

10 Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations. 11 It was revoked on that day, and so the afflicted of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word of the LORD.

Thus the Three Shepherds: Sanhedrin, Sadducees, and Pharisees.

What is Your Point? And no, I dont agree with your interpretation.

Does that mean that you do not believe the Old Covenant has been revoked, and a New covenant is now in place?

 

[JudaicChristian]

Im still unable to edit post #1. :crazy :nag :gah

 

[Armor of God]

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=34162

I think the above applies here. Cutting a pasting half the bible does nothing to make a point.

 

[Sinthesis]

The Sadducees were members of a Jewish sect founded in the second century BC, possibly as a political party. They ceased to exist sometime after the first century AD.

Zechariah 11:7 So I pastured the flock marked for slaughter, particularly the oppressed of the flock. Then I took two staffs and called one Favor and the other Union, and I pastured the flock. 8 In one month I got rid of the three shepherds.
The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them 9 and said, "I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another's flesh."

10 Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations. 11 It was revoked on that day, and so the afflicted of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word of the LORD.

Thus the Three Shepherds: Sanhedrin, Sadducees, and Pharisees.

What is Your Point? And no, I dont agree with your interpretation.

Does that mean that you do not believe the Old Covenant has been revoked, and a New covenant is now in place?

No, I just don't agree that the three shepherds are the Sanhedrin, Sadducees, and Pharisees.

 

[tim-from-pa]

When I look at the title of this thread, the first thing that comes to mind regarding "replacement" theology is that believing Jews and Gentiles are now the people of the covenant (i.e. the New covenant) and the other covenants to the people of the race such as Abrahamic, Davidic, etc are no longer in effect because of their unbelief, and are cast away like any common Gentile or unbelieving person. That's replacement theology in a nutshell.

Of course it's a bunch of major bunk, as such covenants are neither old nor new. The only one that is old is the Mosaic covenant which was replaced, or superseded by the New as means of personal salvation. The others such as the Abrahamic, Davidic and so forth were covenants to the people of the race and as such were never fulfilled in the church. There are two types of chosen--- the chosen of race, and the chosen of grace. Paul's dissertation in Romans 9-11 is using the former understanding of the promises to apply it to the latter. Both work together, but can be independent of each other. To quote J.H Allen in his book to distinguish between the two:

When it is race, it is, "Whom I (God) have chosen."
When it is grace, it is, "Whosoever will, may come and take the water of life freely."
When it is race, it is, "I have called thee by my name; thou art mine." In grace it is
"Whosoever believeth," of whom the Lord says: "They are mine.â€Â
In grace it is, "Come."
In race it is fate, destiny, kismet.
One is a chosen race, and the other is a chosen way. The way is by faith that it might be
of grace, but the choice of race is according to the predetermined and predestined
purpose of God.
In race election it is generation, or born of the flesh.
In the election of grace it is regeneration, or born of the Spirit.

 

[butxifxnot]

Actually, "Jew" means a lot of different things because of misuse. Nowadays, it means anyone of Hebrew descent. However, more strictly it is only the Hebrews of the tribe of Judah.

But actually, it doesn't really matter. Jesus says that those who love Him are the sons of His Father, and that is what matters. Being "legitimate sons of Abraham" doesn't mean anything to God. You can be a Jew on the outside and still be a son of the devil in God's eyes.

 

[follower of Christ]

Simply because I cannot really tell what the OPs point is, I dont know how relevant this will be.


1.0

"House of Israel "versus "Jews" in the New Testament.

Assertions/Conclusions of this Article
Some assert that the words Israel and Jew are referring to the northern and southern kingdoms when used in the NT.
My personal viewpoint is that the terms are used quite generically much of the time and are not meant to show any distinction but instead are simply in reference to the peoples who are descendants of the man Jacob whom God named 'Israel'.

Supporting Evidence
This evidence will simply show that Paul refers to himself as both Jew and Israelite showing conclusively that the two terms ARE used interchangeably in the New testament.

1.1
Paul shows that he IS a "Jew";

But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people. Act 21:39

Paul has just said above in no uncertain terms that he is a JEW.
And here;

I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also. Are they Hebrews? so am I.
Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
(2Co 11:21-22 KJV)

Paul IS an ISRAELITE by his own admission AND he IS a JEW by his own admission.
This evidence shows us very clearly that the usage of "Jew" and "Israel(ite)" in the NT are not meant to be referring to the two separate kingdoms but that Paul uses these terms quite generically/interchangeably.

1.2

Here Paul shows conclusively that the term 'Jews' is used generically to speak about Israel as a whole nation

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
(Rom 3:1-2 KJV)

The Law was given to Israel thru the prophet Moses. It was not just given to the house of Judah. So if 'Jews = ONLY the house of Judah" in every instance we have a terrible conflict in Pauls words above


2.0

Additional Supporting Evidence

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

*IF* Jesus is ONLY sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, then why is He preaching
to "Jews" which are Judah ?

Clearly He has drawn MANY followers from the Jews (Judah) which conclusively shows that
He CANNOT have meant that He has only come for the House of Isreal(ie nonJews), but is excluding
Judah (Jews) entirely.

If He is 'not sent' except to the House of Isreal, and the House of Israel He speaks of is
not including the Jews/Judah, then why is it that He has so many of the Jews who have accepted and are following Him ?

It stands to reason that the use of 'Jew' in the NT is not exclusively talking about Judah versus Israel, but that it IS used in such a manner as to be speaking about the entire Hebrew nation overall.

 

[RND]

Actually, "Jew" means a lot of different things because of misuse. Nowadays, it means anyone of Hebrew descent. However, more strictly it is only the Hebrews of the tribe of Judah.

But actually, it doesn't really matter. Jesus says that those who love Him are the sons of His Father, and that is what matters. Being "legitimate sons of Abraham" doesn't mean anything to God. You can be a Jew on the outside and still be a son of the devil in God's eyes.

I see your point very well and agree with your take except for one thing.....through Jesus the "seed" of Abraham, by "adoption" we are "legitimate" sons of Abraham.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises;

 

[Drew]

Actually, "Jew" means a lot of different things because of misuse. Nowadays, it means anyone of Hebrew descent. However, more strictly it is only the Hebrews of the tribe of Judah.

But actually, it doesn't really matter. Jesus says that those who love Him are the sons of His Father, and that is what matters. Being "legitimate sons of Abraham" doesn't mean anything to God. You can be a Jew on the outside and still be a son of the devil in God's eyes.

I see your point very well and agree with your take except for one thing.....through Jesus the "seed" of Abraham, by "adoption" we are "legitimate" sons of Abraham.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises;

Hello RND:

I know that we disagreed about something in the past, but I forget what it was. In any event, I entirely agree with this statement of yours

through Jesus the "seed" of Abraham, by "adoption" we are "legitimate" sons of Abraham.

Paul clearly asserts the existence of "true Israel" whose members contain both Jews and Gentiles. I think Romans 9:4 is not a good text to use in support of this argument, but we need not get into that unless you (or others) want to.

But, and this cannot be emphasized enough - one can believe in the existence of a "true Israel" and a national Israel and yet not embrace replacement theology.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Simply because I cannot really tell what the OPs point is, I dont know how relevant this will be.


1.0

"House of Israel "versus "Jews" in the New Testament.

Assertions/Conclusions of this Article
Some assert that the words Israel and Jew are referring to the northern and southern kingdoms when used in the NT.
My personal viewpoint is that the terms are used quite generically much of the time and are not meant to show any distinction but instead are simply in reference to the peoples who are descendants of the man Jacob whom God named 'Israel'.

Supporting Evidence
This evidence will simply show that Paul refers to himself as both Jew and Israelite showing conclusively that the two terms ARE used interchangeably in the New testament.

1.1
Paul shows that he IS a "Jew";

But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people. Act 21:39

Paul has just said above in no uncertain terms that he is a JEW.
And here;

[quote:345nayli]I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also. Are they Hebrews? so am I.
Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
(2Co 11:21-22 KJV)

Paul IS an ISRAELITE by his own admission AND he IS a JEW by his own admission.
This evidence shows us very clearly that the usage of "Jew" and "Israel(ite)" in the NT are not meant to be referring to the two separate kingdoms but that Paul uses these terms quite generically/interchangeably.

1.2

Here Paul shows conclusively that the term 'Jews' is used generically to speak about Israel as a whole nation

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
(Rom 3:1-2 KJV)

The Law was given to Israel thru the prophet Moses. It was not just given to the house of Judah. So if 'Jews = ONLY the house of Judah" in every instance we have a terrible conflict in Pauls words above


2.0[/quote:345nayli]

What Paul stated does not contradict the two houses idea. All Jews are Israelites, if by that you maen children of Israel. However, not all Israelites are Jews, if by Jews you mean children of Judah. There is one generation removed here and the older one is father to them all, but in the next generation, ten of those tribes inherited his name as a nation. In addition, to say that both houses are together then and now makes the bible's prophecy fail miserably. Ezekiel 37 tells of the end time regathering and joining of the two houses---- something that did not occur yet.

Additional Supporting Evidence

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

*IF* Jesus is ONLY sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, then why is He preaching
to "Jews" which are Judah ?

Clearly He has drawn MANY followers from the Jews (Judah) which conclusively shows that
He CANNOT have meant that He has only come for the House of Isreal(ie nonJews), but is excluding
Judah (Jews) entirely.

If He is 'not sent' except to the House of Isreal, and the House of Israel He speaks of is
not including the Jews/Judah, then why is it that He has so many of the Jews who have accepted and are following Him ?

It stands to reason that the use of 'Jew' in the NT is not exclusively talking about Judah versus Israel, but that it IS used in such a manner as to be speaking about the entire Hebrew nation overall.

Matthew 15:24 is coming from the context that a Gentile Canaanite woman came to Jesus asking for his mercy. Jesus wanted her to know that the only lost people he's addressing at the moment (besides the Jews) is the house of Israel. That's because according to the promises in Genesis that these people are the ones to be the blessing to the earth, the same ones as the biblical birthright. Since the Jew did not have the birthright, it is clearly understood as to why "he came to his own (tribe) but his own received him not" to which he wanted the message to go to the future purveyors of the gospel as the "lost sheep of the house of Israel", which in fact were his "other sheep which are not of this fold". This explains why Judas (a type of Judah or Jews) rejected Christ and hung himself, but the other apostles (the rest of Israel) gladly brought the tidings of the gospel. Then, later on, it was revealed to Paul that non-Israelite Gentiles, such as this Canaanite woman would also be fellow-heirs by faith in Christ. It all makes perfect sense to me.

 

[RND]

Hello RND:

I know that we disagreed about something in the past, but I forget what it was.

The law. I believe your expressed belief is that it has been fulfilled in Christ. I believe that through Christ we are "dead" to the law, not "dead" from the law.

 

[JudaicChristian]

What do you think about keeping Yahwah's Sabbath command? If we are a grafted branch, then we also are the Israelites spoken of here. Exodus 31. The Sabbath
12 Then the LORD said to Moses, 13 "Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.
14 " 'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. 15 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.' " Are you a grafted branch into Israel?

 

[JudaicChristian]

Actually, "Jew" means a lot of different things because of misuse. Nowadays, it means anyone of Hebrew descent. However, more strictly it is only the Hebrews of the tribe of Judah.

But actually, it doesn't really matter. Jesus says that those who love Him are the sons of His Father, and that is what matters. Being "legitimate sons of Abraham" doesn't mean anything to God. You can be a Jew on the outside and still be a son of the devil in God's eyes.

The word Jew and Judaism go hand in hand. Before people were called Christians they were called converts to Judaism.

 

[tim-from-pa]

I personally have no problem with the Sabbath, and as a Christian who studied the bible front and back fail to see where Sunday is sanctioned and the weekly Sabbath in lieu of Saturday. However, that opens another topic and there is no shortage of threads on the Sabbath at this forum. The primary topic of this thread I assume is about replacement theology. Nobody replaces Israel. But then again, Israel was divided into two kingdoms in which the northern tribes retained the name "Israel" and the southern tribes the house of Judah after the dominant tribe of the royal lineage of Judah. Most people, including Christians, think that when "Israel" is mentioned in the bible, they think it means "Jew" (if by Jew one means the returned exiles of the house of Judah, and the Jews that proceeded from them since). However, that is not the case. I personally believe most of the Israelites became as Gentiles, and most actually accepted the gospel, so then it appears to be that Gentiles now have the covenant and thus the birth of replacement theology. In fact, many (not all) of the Christian converts and nations are physically from Abraham (unbeknownst to themselves as the bible prophesied) and thus fulfilled the promise of Genesis 35:11. Most know what I believe as "British Israelism". Of course there are a lot of people that dismiss such a theory with a wave of a theological hand (usually poking fun jokes without anything substantive in its place). However, it makes the most sense to me since I have yet to hear anyone explain Genesis 35:11 and Genesis 48:19 apart from this teaching, and indeed, these nations were key in promoting the gospel and becoming a "blessing to all nations" as God promised to Abraham's seed and NOT non-Israelite Gentiles to do that instead. Keep in mind that these promises of many nations are wrapped in with promises of Messiah. If God defaults on bringing about many nations, then promises of Messiah go out the window as well. You can't have one without the other. This is the core foundation and theme of the entire bible and yet so readily missed.

 

[RND]

Nice thoughts Tim.

I'm not an Armstrongite but I do see where you are coming from. I look at it this way. If the 10 Northern Tribes are the "gentiles" the so too are the "left behind" tribes of "Levy, Benjamin and Judah."

Modern day "Judaism" has little, if anything to do with the the religion of the Hebrews of the OT. Modern day "Judaism" isn't about race, but culture. Modern day "Judaism" has everything to do with exclusiveness in "Zionism" (which is clearly and "invention" of man).

We all bleed. We all bleed red. Whoever is "in Christ" is a "new creature." No more Jew, no more Muslim, no more Buddhist, but all are "one" in Christ.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Nice thoughts Tim.

I'm not an Armstrongite but I do see where you are coming from. I look at it this way. If the 10 Northern Tribes are the "gentiles" the so too are the "left behind" tribes of "Levy, Benjamin and Judah."

Modern day "Judaism" has little, if anything to do with the the religion of the Hebrews of the OT. Modern day "Judaism" isn't about race, but culture. Modern day "Judaism" has everything to do with exclusiveness in "Zionism" (which is clearly and "invention" of man).

We all bleed. We all bleed red. Whoever is "in Christ" is a "new creature." No more Jew, no more Muslim, no more Buddhist, but all are "one" in Christ.

• Have you given any thought to the word "Zion?"

Revelation 16:16
Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon (or Mount of the congregation Zion.)

Matthew 21:5
"Say to the Daughter of Zion, 'See, your king comes to you, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.' "

John 12:15
"Do not be afraid, O Daughter of Zion; see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey's colt."

Romans 9:33
As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

Hebrews 12:22
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels (messengers) in joyful assembly,

1 Peter 2:6
For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

Revelation 14:1
Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.