Bible Study Requirements of Salvation

[GodsGrace]

See Luke 17:3
Matthew 18:15-17

For what Jesus said we should do if someone sins/offends us. All I have done is put them into clear number steps.

So you go to a church where this is done?
So do the JWs. This made me question it.

I've never gone to a church like that.
Although I could understand how a priest/pastor might get involved in
a personal conflict between two persons that go to his church.

 

[Who Me]

So you go to a church where this is done?
So do the JWs. This made me question it.

I've never gone to a church like that.
Although I could understand how a priest/pastor might get involved in
a personal conflict between two persons that go to his church.

We have been talking about obedience to Jesus.
Seems you are just talking about it.

May I suggest you talk to you minister about what it means for him and his congragation.

 

[GodsGrace]

We have been talking about obedience to Jesus.
Seems you are just talking about it.

May I suggest you talk to you minister about what it means for him and his congragation.

Sure.
As soon as I get back to the states.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

The RCC has doctrine I cannot agree with.
However, the teaching there is very good and I can't think of a biblical teaching that I don't agree with...I have a little doubt about John 3:5.

It is also a very well-balanced church....leaving you in the hands of the Holy Spirit once you understand that moral values are very important.

I agree with you.
Grace only churches mean well and we ARE UNDER GBACE.
But so many interpret this incorrectly.
Some believe that since Jesus "did it all",. we no longer have to.

And churches that are truly legalistic are also wrong.
Some tell women they can't wear lipstick or pants.
What that would have to do with my salvation, I don't know.

I would not discourage anyone from entering the RCC...
however you'll have to deal with sacramental grace ---not so bad.
Purgatory --- a problem for me.
Mariology --- Too much beyond what the early church intended.

I know many Catholics and love all Of them...they are all great people....However I HATE their Doctrine ....
Paul warned not to add to his Gospel Of Pure Grace.....Paul said that if we Believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose from the grave, we would be saved.Period. Catholic Doctrine has seven steps one must undergo to be saved. That means they are preaching a False Gospel .The Book Of Galations clearly teaches that if you add to Paul’s Gospel , given to him by Jesus , you are “ Fallen From Grace” ( there is debate as to what that might entail— none of it Good) Paul also clearly states that those who “Teach” a False Gospel are “ Accursed”, damned forever ......Churches add to the Gospel so often, nobody even thinks about it.The most frequent form of Adding to the Gospel is supplanting the Grace Of God with Repentance.It sounds like this: “ Sure, Jesus Saves.....BUT......If you commit a sin and don’t repent if it before you die you are going to Hell like a Speeding Bullet! That is a False Gospel— an “ Accursed” one...... Grace is God's Way Of dealing with Sin in the life of the Believer......When a Believer Sins, they need to do the same thing with their Sins that God does— put it on the Cross and leave it there! There can be Chastisement for this Sins here on Earth , but as for being held against us and knocking us out of our Salvation—- That Ain’t gonna happen.The Grace Of God has us covered as far as that is concerned.When the Accuser , Satan , brings up any of our sins, God will say “ What Sins? I do not remember them.” As the Bible says..... “ I will remember their sins no more.”
As far as “ Purgatory” is concerned, it is a Demonic Fairy Tale That essentially says that the Blood of Christ is Essential for Salvation , but it just isn’t Adequate for Salvation...... “ WE” have to endure a little torture for awhile to kinda “ mop-up” Those Sins The Blood could not handle.....This Doctrine Tramples upon the Blood Of Christ and those that adhere to it show that they are clueless as to God's Plan Of Salvation....I thank God that many of those that previously lived by Catholic Doctrine have seen its errors and have put their Faith in Jesus Plus Nothing , manifested by Resting in the Gospel Of Grace found in 1Cor15:1-4........Always remember.....it’s just like the Song says— “Nothing But The Blood”.......God Bless.....

 

[stovebolts]

I know many Catholics and love all Of them...they are all great people....However I HATE their Doctrine ....
Paul warned not to add to his Gospel Of Pure Grace.....Paul said that if we Believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose from the grave, we would be saved.Period. Catholic Doctrine has seven steps one must undergo to be saved. That means they are preaching a False Gospel .The Book Of Galations clearly teaches that if you add to Paul’s Gospel , given to him by Jesus , you are “ Fallen From Grace” ( there is debate as to what that might entail— none of it Good) Paul also clearly states that those who “Teach” a False Gospel are “ Accursed”, damned forever ......Churches add to the Gospel so often, nobody even thinks about it.The most frequent form of Adding to the Gospel is supplanting the Grace Of God with Repentance.It sounds like this: “ Sure, Jesus Saves.....BUT......If you commit a sin and don’t repent if it before you die you are going to Hell like a Speeding Bullet! That is a False Gospel— an “ Accursed” one...... Grace is God's Way Of dealing with Sin in the life of the Believer......When a Believer Sins, they need to do the same thing with their Sins that God does— put it on the Cross and leave it there! There can be Chastisement for this Sins here on Earth , but as for being held against us and knocking us out of our Salvation—- That Ain’t gonna happen.The Grace Of God has us covered as far as that is concerned.When the Accuser , Satan , brings up any of our sins, God will say “ What Sins? I do not remember them.” As the Bible says..... “ I will remember their sins no more.”
As far as “ Purgatory” is concerned, it is a Demonic Fairy Tale That essentially says that the Blood of Christ is Essential for Salvation , but it just isn’t Adequate for Salvation...... “ WE” have to endure a little torture for awhile to kinda “ mop-up” Those Sins The Blood could not handle.....This Doctrine Tramples upon the Blood Of Christ and those that adhere to it show that they are clueless as to God's Plan Of Salvation....I thank God that many of those that previously lived by Catholic Doctrine have seen its errors and have put their Faith in Jesus Plus Nothing , manifested by Resting in the Gospel Of Grace found in 1Cor15:1-4........Always remember.....it’s just like the Song says— “Nothing But The Blood”.......God Bless.....

Hi and thanks for letting us know how you feel about that.
I don't have an issue with your feelings on this matter. However, I do have concerns that this may turn into a Catholic bash fest. Because of my concern, I would ask that we, as a community not focus on what divides us and use that energy to find common ground to reconcile us with our Catholic brethren.
You have had your say in this matter, and we have heard you. Now, let's not go down that road because we have all been down it enough times to know where it leads.
Thanks
Jeff

 

[GodsGrace]

I know many Catholics and love all Of them...they are all great people....However I HATE their Doctrine ....
Paul warned not to add to his Gospel Of Pure Grace.....Paul said that if we Believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose from the grave, we would be saved.Period. Catholic Doctrine has seven steps one must undergo to be saved. That means they are preaching a False Gospel .The Book Of Galations clearly teaches that if you add to Paul’s Gospel , given to him by Jesus , you are “ Fallen From Grace” ( there is debate as to what that might entail— none of it Good) Paul also clearly states that those who “Teach” a False Gospel are “ Accursed”, damned forever ......Churches add to the Gospel so often, nobody even thinks about it.The most frequent form of Adding to the Gospel is supplanting the Grace Of God with Repentance.It sounds like this: “ Sure, Jesus Saves.....BUT......If you commit a sin and don’t repent if it before you die you are going to Hell like a Speeding Bullet! That is a False Gospel— an “ Accursed” one...... Grace is God's Way Of dealing with Sin in the life of the Believer......When a Believer Sins, they need to do the same thing with their Sins that God does— put it on the Cross and leave it there! There can be Chastisement for this Sins here on Earth , but as for being held against us and knocking us out of our Salvation—- That Ain’t gonna happen.The Grace Of God has us covered as far as that is concerned.When the Accuser , Satan , brings up any of our sins, God will say “ What Sins? I do not remember them.” As the Bible says..... “ I will remember their sins no more.”
As far as “ Purgatory” is concerned, it is a Demonic Fairy Tale That essentially says that the Blood of Christ is Essential for Salvation , but it just isn’t Adequate for Salvation...... “ WE” have to endure a little torture for awhile to kinda “ mop-up” Those Sins The Blood could not handle.....This Doctrine Tramples upon the Blood Of Christ and those that adhere to it show that they are clueless as to God's Plan Of Salvation....I thank God that many of those that previously lived by Catholic Doctrine have seen its errors and have put their Faith in Jesus Plus Nothing , manifested by Resting in the Gospel Of Grace found in 1Cor15:1-4........Always remember.....it’s just like the Song says— “Nothing But The Blood”.......God Bless.....

You don't have to like all of the teachings of the CC...neither do I.
However, to say that we don't even have to confess our sins to God is not biblical teaching.
John said that if we sin, we confess our sin and God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.
1 John 1:9
9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

We are also called to obey God's word.
John said the those that believe in the Son will be saved...
but those who do not obey the Son will see the wrath of God.
John 3:36
36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

I'm sure we all believe in the Grace of God, but sometimes I think we word our beliefs in such as way as to make it seem obeying is not necessary. I hope you don't believe this.

Jesus wants us to be a part of the Kingdom of God right here.
There are rules we have to keep to stay in that Kingdom.
Acts 10:35
35but in every nation the man who fears [worships] Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.

God does ask us to do what is right,,,and that is obeying Him.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

You don't have to like all of the teachings of the CC...neither do I.
However, to say that we don't even have to confess our sins to God is not biblical teaching.
John said that if we sin, we confess our sin and God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.
1 John 1:9
9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

We are also called to obey God's word.
John said the those that believe in the Son will be saved...
but those who do not obey the Son will see the wrath of God.
John 3:36
36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

I'm sure we all believe in the Grace of God, but sometimes I think we word our beliefs in such as way as to make it seem obeying is not necessary. I hope you don't believe this.

Jesus wants us to be a part of the Kingdom of God right here.
There are rules we have to keep to stay in that Kingdom.
Acts 10:35
35but in every nation the man who fears [worships] Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.

God does ask us to do what is right,,,and that is obeying Him.

9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Some say that we should not use this verse for a “ daily bar of soap” to try to make sure we remember ALL of our daily sins, lest we never find forgiveness.....if this were the case, it is all a person would get done, after all, we ALL have Secret thoughts that would “ shame Hell” and what about those pesky “ sins of omission?” .....It could be a one time event.... like the time the Holy Spirit convicted you of your sin.....REALLY convicted you and let you escape the “ Fool’s Paradise” That had you thinking stuff like “ Well, I might be a sinner, but I Ain't THAT bad ! I ain’t one of those guys out there in prison.....I may not be perfect, but I”m “ good enough” to go to Heaven!” If you have been blessed by a Visit by the Holy Spirit and had your eyes opened to your wretchedness and total depravity of who you are before a Perfect , Holy God.......Maybe “ that” is the “ Confession” being referred to.....the one that broke the camel’s back and drove you to your knees to pray that “ God, have Mercy on me , a sinner.....” Of course, it is possible that you have not had your “ woe is me” moment with God.I did. I have not been the same since......I think this is what Real Repentance looks like.....a complete “ mind change” as to who I was and who Jesus was.....and how helpless and hopeless I was without Him......

 

[WIP]

We must never take our sinfulness lightly or for granted and never forget it. There's an adage that holds true here, "Out of sight, out of mind." We need to turn to God with remorse for our unrighteousness daily. Knowing our sinfulness and truly loving God with all our heart should bring us to our knees in seeking His forgiveness.

 

[JLB]

I know many Catholics and love all Of them...they are all great people....However I HATE their Doctrine ....

We love Catholic people.
We hate the teachings of Catholicism.

I love my brothers and sisters is Christ.
I hate the false doctrine of Calvinism.

Jesus hates the doctrine of the Nicolatians, and the doctrine of Balaam.


But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
Revelation 2:14-16



JLB

 

[Doug Brents]

We love Catholic people.
We hate the teachings of Catholicism.

I love my brothers and sisters is Christ.
I hate the false doctrine of Calvinism.

Jesus hates the doctrine of the Nicolatians, and the doctrine of Balaam.

But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
Revelation 2:14-16
JLB

And I love all of the people on this thread, but I loathe the doctrine of "faith only" that the majority of "Christian Churches" preach today. There is no real support for it in Scripture.

 

[JLB]

And I love all of the people on this thread, but I loathe the doctrine of "faith only" that the majority of "Christian Churches" preach today. There is no real support for it in Scripture.

So true.

The Bible teaches that faith, by itself is dead.


Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Some say that we should not use this verse for a “ daily bar of soap” to try to make sure we remember ALL of our daily sins, lest we never find forgiveness.....if this were the case, it is all a person would get done, after all, we ALL have Secret thoughts that would “ shame Hell” and what about those pesky “ sins of omission?” .....It could be a one time event.... like the time the Holy Spirit convicted you of your sin.....REALLY convicted you and let you escape the “ Fool’s Paradise” That had you thinking stuff like “ Well, I might be a sinner, but I Ain't THAT bad ! I ain’t one of those guys out there in prison.....I may not be perfect, but I”m “ good enough” to go to Heaven!” If you have been blessed by a Visit by the Holy Spirit and had your eyes opened to your wretchedness and total depravity of who you are before a Perfect , Holy God.......Maybe “ that” is the “ Confession” being referred to.....the one that broke the camel’s back and drove you to your knees to pray that “ God, have Mercy on me , a sinner.....” Of course, it is possible that you have not had your “ woe is me” moment with God.I did. I have not been the same since......I think this is what Real Repentance looks like.....a complete “ mind change” as to who I was and who Jesus was.....and how helpless and hopeless I was without Him......

What you've posted above makes more sense than your other posts where you make it sound like one could live a life of sin and still be saved.

I hope that's not true.

 

[WIP]

And I love all of the people on this thread, but I loathe the doctrine of "faith only" that the majority of "Christian Churches" preach today. There is no real support for it in Scripture.

I agree but by what you have been posting, I get the impression you are reaching the opposite extreme and promoting works salvation. Not saying that doing the works is wrong for it is important and necessary but doing the works to specifically fulfill the steps to gain salvation puts one's focus and faith in the wrong thing.

 

[Doug Brents]

I agree but by what you have been posting, I get the impression you are reaching the opposite extreme and promoting works salvation. Not saying that doing the works is wrong for it is important and necessary but doing the works to specifically fulfill the steps to gain salvation puts one's focus and faith in the wrong thing.

I can see what you are saying. And you are correct, that my focus is much more narrow in a thread like this where I am communicating mostly with people who believe that they are already "in Christ". If a person believes that he is already in Christ, but he has not been immersed into Him as the Bible says we must be, then my focus is on correcting that misconception. Everyone here who argues that "faith only" is what saves us already understands that Jesus is the One and Only door back to relationship with God. I do not need to re-lay that foundation.

You are correct that we are not "saved BY works", but we are saved THROUGH works. Our works, the actions of faith we take in response to what Christ finished with His death on the cross, do not save us. But they do qualify us to receive salvation.

I have written a paper (45000 words) that addresses all the different arguments that I hear repeatedly (from this site and others), but as we are limited to 10000 words per post here, I don't find a place to post it.

But when I am teaching someone new who has never heard the Gospel before, my focus is much more on Christ and His work in creating the way that we can be saved. Then I teach the steps of faith, like I am sure Philip did with the Eunuch, that lead to salvation, and lead them to understanding that their sins are washed away when they surrender to Christ in immersion just as Jesus said.

 

[WIP]

I can see what you are saying. And you are correct, that my focus is much more narrow in a thread like this where I am communicating mostly with people who believe that they are already "in Christ". If a person believes that he is already in Christ, but he has not been immersed into Him as the Bible says we must be, then my focus is on correcting that misconception. Everyone here who argues that "faith only" is what saves us already understands that Jesus is the One and Only door back to relationship with God. I do not need to re-lay that foundation.

You are correct that we are not "saved BY works", but we are saved THROUGH works. Our works, the actions of faith we take in response to what Christ finished with His death on the cross, do not save us. But they do qualify us to receive salvation.

I have written a paper (45000 words) that addresses all the different arguments that I hear repeatedly (from this site and others), but as we are limited to 10000 words per post here, I don't find a place to post it.

But when I am teaching someone new who has never heard the Gospel before, my focus is much more on Christ and His work in creating the way that we can be saved. Then I teach the steps of faith, like I am sure Philip did with the Eunuch, that lead to salvation, and lead them to understanding that their sins are washed away when they surrender to Christ in immersion just as Jesus said.

Where my belief differs is that I believe our works is an outward expression of that gift which we have received. We love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength and love others therefore, we will do good works as a reflection of that love. We don't do good works to gain anything in return.

In Matthew 5 Jesus tells us that we don't pray to gain recognition from others. We don't do good works to gain recognition from others. We don't give alms to gain recognition from others. God wants us to do it with a cheerful heart and with one hand not knowing what the other is doing. In other words, we don't do it out of duty but out of love.

 

[stovebolts]

Where my belief differs is that I believe our works is an outward expression of that gift which we have received. We love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength and love others therefore, we will do good works as a reflection of that love. We don't do good works to gain anything in return.

As an Adult, what is stopping you from being baptized as an adult, even as an outward expression.
which reminds me, what outward expression does baptism identify with?

 

[Doug Brents]

Where my belief differs is that I believe our works is an outward expression of that gift which we have received. We love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength and love others therefore, we will do good works as a reflection of that love. We don't do good works to gain anything in return.

In Matthew 5 Jesus tells us that we don't pray to gain recognition from others. We don't do good works to gain recognition from others. We don't give alms to gain recognition from others. God wants us to do it with a cheerful heart and with one hand not knowing what the other is doing. In other words, we don't do it out of duty but out of love.

James 2 makes it clear that our actions give life to our faith, and then our faith continues to take action as fruit of that life.

The example he gives is the soul vs the body. The soul gives life to the body (God breathed into man and he became a living soul, Gen 2), and then the body continues to breathe as evidence of life.

"Breath of God" gives life to body which continues to breathe.
Actions give life to faith which continues to take action.

Faith is the conduit through which we receive salvation, so faith must precede salvation. And faith must have actions before it is alive and able to conduct God's grace.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

What you've posted above makes more sense than your other posts where you make it sound like one could live a life of sin and still be saved.

I hope that's not true.

We are ALL living “ lives of sin” to one extent or other.....is your “ thought life”as Pure as it should be? No lust? If you have had any lustful thoughts today, count yourself no better than an Adulterer. Any Hate for anybody? God declares that you are no better than a common murderer .How about those pesky “ Sins Of Omission”That nobody ever discusses.Have you helped out at the Soup Kitchen today? How many strangers have you invited into your home to feed and clothe? I thought so.
James says that if you break one Commandment , you have broken them all !
Isn’t it a little obvious that God has all of us Trapped? You either take His means of Salvation—- Faith in the Finished Work Of The Cross—- or you are Without hope.The Law-Keeping , Performance Route to Salvation ain’t gonna Work........The Standard for that means of trying to justify yourself before a Holy God is PERFECTION .....24/7....... you can’t do it. It’s Faith in the Shed Blood Of Jesus That Saves .....That Plus Nothing.

 

[WIP]

As an Adult, what is stopping you from being baptized as an adult, even as an outward expression.
which reminds me, what outward expression does baptism identify with?

I have thought about it and prayed about it and then I came to realize I don't need to. It is not necessary for me to take it into my own hands and do it again because I trust God and what He has done and continues to do with me.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have thought about it and prayed about it and then I came to realize I don't need to. It is not necessary for me to take it into my own hands and do it again because I trust God and what He has done and continues to do with me.

You said AGAIN.
(I haven't been following your discussion)
So to me that means that you were baptized as an infant, or even older.
If so, you do not need to be baptized again.
We are not baptized into a denomination, we are baptized into Christ.
If we are baptized AND believe in Christ (or V V) then there is no need to be
baptized again.

A Catholic priest once told me that some persons want to be UNBAPTIZED because they
are atheist and are upset that their parents had them baptized as infants. One cannot be unbaptized. It is a seal, or mark, that is forever.

However, if one does not have belief in God, then he is lost anyway.
We need both.