Responding to Dave Hunt's Pretribulationism (Pt.2)

[Quasar]

Difference between the rapture and the 2nd coming of Christ

Preterist:

P. >>>4. When was a third of the sea turned into blood and a third of the living creatures in the sea killed, and a third of the ships destroyed? Rev.8:8-9.

5. When did a third of the waters on the earth turn bitter and many people died from it? Rev.8:10-11.

6. When was a third of the sun, moon and stars turned dark and a third of the day was without light as well as a third of the night? Rev.8:12.

See above.<<<


Q. Item #4. is the second trumpet judgement, a PROPHECY pertaining to the COMING WRATH OF GOD! It is in the midst of the coming tribulation and HAS NOT YET OCCURRED!

Item #5. is the third trumpet judgement of God's wrath that will take place in the midst of the tribulation, not yet fulfilled.

Item #6. is the fourth trumpet judgement of God's wrath that will take place in the midst of the tribulation, not yet fulfilled.


P. >>>7. When did the star fall from heaven with the key to the Abyss, who released the locusts, in such a large number, the skies were darkened. Who were like scorpions, to torture mankind for five months? Rev.9:1-3, 10.

Stars are hundreds of times larger than planet earth. Explain how a star could fall to the earth and not destroy everything. See Acts: 2:20 which Peter was saying were happening on Pentecost.<<<


Q. Jesus reference to a "star" was to an angel. In this case, the discription of a specific 'thing,' is a described symbolically rather than literally. This symbol is used in other places as well.

Peter has repeated Joel 2:23-32 that refers to the Day of the Lord, the tribulation and was not fulfilled at Pentecost. Nor was it fulfilled with the Holy Spirit filling ALL PEOPLE. BUT RATHER, ONLY THE 200 OR SO DISCIPLES OF JESUS IN THE BUILDING AT THAT TIME. The sub-title over the Joel passage from vs 28-32 is, "The Day of the Lord," an end times prophecy, which most certainly was not fulfilled at Pentecost, and a gaff by Peter.


P. >>>8. When did the army of 200 million men attack and kill one third of mankind? Rev.9:15-16.

Rev 9:16 And the number of the armies of the horsemen was two myriads of myriads. And I heard their number.

What is a myriad? Why is “of†a multiplier?<<<


This is the sixth trumpet judgement in the midst of the tribulation, the Day of the Lord, which HAS NOT YET BEEN FULFILLED!

The text in the KJV reads as follows: "And the number of the army of horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand." In the NASB: "The number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million." In the NIV: "The number of the mounted troops was two hundred million. I heard their number." In the Amplified Bible: "The number of their troops of cavalry was twice ten thousand times ten thousand (200,000,000); I heard what their number was." I suggest you look in other Bible translations than the one you are using to clarify hard to understand passages.


P. >>>9. Who were the two witnesss? And how long were they here to prophecy? And what were they empowered to do? Rev.11:3-6.

Law and the Prophets.<<<


No, they will not be the 'Law and the Prophets!' But rather, they are the two olive trees and the two lamp stands that stand before the Lord of the earth [Vs 4]. That is symbolic of two men who are identified in vs 6 by the powers God gave to Moses and to Elijah, in Ex.7:20 and in 1 Kgs.17:1.


P. >>>10. When did Christ begin His power and kingdom here on the earth? When was Satan thrown to the earth? Rev.12:10.

Who says Christ’s Kingdom is suppose to be on earth?

Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

To fall from heaven means to lose a position of power or dominion.<<<


Jesus said His kingdom will be here on the earth through the events of His prophecies. Rev.20:6 states, "Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for 1,000 years."

Followed by, "When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations IN THE FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH...[Rev.20:7-8]. In vs 9, "They marched across the breadth of the earth AND SURROUNDED THE CAMP OF GOD'S PEOPLE, the city He loves, but fire came down from heaven and devoured them."

Lk.10:18 is prophetic of Rev.12:9-11.


P. >>>11. When was the Antichrist revealed? Rev.13:1-3. And who was he?

No mention of anti-christ in this passage or any other passage in Revelation.<<<


Q. The Antichrist is the first horseman, of the four, of the apocalypse in Rev.6:2. He is identified as the 'beast,' in Rev.11:7, 13:1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 12, 14, 15, 17; Rev.16:10, 13; Rev.17:8, 11, 12, 16; Rev.19:19, 20; Rev.20:4 and 10. Are all those passages missing from your Bible?


P. >>>12. When did the false prophet show up? And who was he? Rev.13:11.

Perhaps the high priest and Sanhedrin. Or perhaps Herod Agrippa.<<<


I asked you when, not who. The false prophet fist appears in Rev.13:11 and runs through vs 17. He is thrown into the lake of fire with the Antichrist in Rev.19:20.


P. >>>13. When did the Antichrist make everyone have his mark on their forehead or their right hand? And if they didn't, they could neither buy nor sell anything. When did that take place? Rev.13:16-17.

Never, since there is no anti-christ in Revelation. As for marks on the hand and forehead:

Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

Exo 13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.<<<


Q. As I stated previously, in Rev.13:16-17, at about the midway part of the seven years of tribulation. For the great multitude who did not accept the mark of the Antichrist, ended up being all the martyrs who participate in the first resurrection. Dt.6:8 and Ex.13:9 has nothing whatever to do with the Revelation of Jesus Christ.


P. >>>14. When was the image of the Antichrist put in the temple of God where everyone was forced to worship it or die? Rev.13:14-15.

15. When did the false prophet cause the image of the Antichrist to have breath? Rev.13:15.

Still no anti-christ found in Revelation. This deals with Rome and its persecution, in what manner it was fulfilled I do not know.<<<


Q. As Jesus prophecied in Mt.24:15, confirming Dan.9:27. Rev.13:15 answers #15, and the last paragraph has already been debunked!


P. >>>16. Who are the 144,000 from twelve of the tribes of Israel? Where did they come from? Rev.7:1-8.

They are representative of the first Jewish converts.

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

They are also called the “firstfruitsâ€Â:

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

James calls his readers firstfruits:

Jam 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Perhaps you can explain how these at the “end of time†are called first fruits? Seems they would be the last.<<<


Q. No, the 144,000 are not the first Jewish converts, who would, among others relate to Jesus own disciples. When they believed in Jesus, they became the firstfruits of His Church. If the 144,000 were Jewish 'firstfruit converts,' they will be raptured with the Church, before the tribulation begins. In this case, they have been 'redeemed from the earth,' and God has sent them to the earth from heaven to replace the raptured Church, no longer on the earth to preach the Gospel. [This is another subject which I don't want to go any further on in this thread]. They are called firstfruits, because they will be converted after they died, and the first Jews to receive their Messiah in such a large numbers. For a clue, see 1 Pet.3:18-19 and Eph.4:7-10, the latter to fulfill the prophecy of Ps.68:18.


P. >>>17. When did everyone get ugly and painful sores who had the mark of the Antichrist? Rev.16:2.

Again, symbolic language probably representing political and spiritual boils that came upon the collective body of the Jewish state.

Part of the curses of the OT:

Deu 28:60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.

You err when you try to force this language to fit a 21st century American instead of a 1st century Jew:

Isa 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
Isa 1:5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
Isa 1:6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.
Isa 1:7 Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.<<<


Q. #17 above is as Jesus stated in His Revelation, the ugly and painful sores of Rev.16:2 will be the first bowl of seven, of the wrath of God, representing LITERAL PROPHECY YET TO BE FULFILLED. They are not connected to the OT in any way, except that which refers to the Day of the Lord, which is what the tribulation is.

The book of Revelation is not in the Jewish Tanak, Talmud or Mishna. However, Jesus Revelation is the same today as when He dictated it through His angel to the apostle John! Jacob's Trouble, the 70th and final seven years of Israel's destiny has nothing whatever to do with Dt.28:60 of Isa.1:4, 5, 6 and 7 that are prophecies in that time frame of Israel's defeat and exile at the hands of the Assyrians.

You are the one who is in err, trying to 'force' Scripture into meaning something straight out of la la land! When you do not know what your gifts of the Holy Spirit are, by no means try interpreting prophecy unless you do.


P. >>>18. When did the sea turn to blood and everything in it died? Rev.16:3.
19. When did all the rivers and springs of water turn to blood? Rev.16:4.
20. When did the sun scorch and burn everyone with fire? Rev.16:8.
21. When was the kingdom of Satan thrown into darkness, when men knawed their tongues in agony, cursing God because of their pains and sores? Rev.16:10-11.
22. When was the river Euphrates dried up? And Satan, the Antichrist and the false prophet start gathering their army from the kings of the earth? Rev.16:12-14.
23. Where did the army of the Antichrist gather to? Rev.16:16.
25. When did Jesus throw the Antichrist and the false prophet into the lake of fire? Rev.19:20.
26. When was Satan captured and thrown into the Abyss for 1,000 years? Rev.20:1-3.

I don’t have time to do a verse by verse commentary on Revelation. Hopefully by now you understand that preterist rely on the symbolism of the OT to interpret Revelation. If you really care what preterist think on these matters, I can recommend some commentaries on Revelation.<<<


Q. The fact of the matter is, numbers 18 through 26 are all self explanatory of the Revelation of Jesus Christ and the prophecies He has made of things YET TO COME. The only relationship the OT has to the book of Revelation are a few of the prophecies that Jesus repeats in Revelation. The bottom line is; it is NOT A BOOK OF HISTORY Preterists attempt to make of it to fit their hermeneutics, but rather, the PROPHECIES OF THE DAYS OF THE END OF THIS AGE AND THE NEW ONE TO COME!

That's enough correcting of the record I have time for this morning. I'll return to reply to the rest of your post another time.

Blessings,

Quasar

 

[Vic C.]

Pre...

You left out this part in your quote of me:

So you don't think I am picking you out, I will ask that ALL here please refrain from personal attacks. Let's stick to discussing issues, not people.

Any issues you all have must be dealt with via PM.

Thanks,
Vic

:end of discussion

 

[Quasar]

Pre...

You left out this part in your quote of me:

So you don't think I am picking you out, I will ask that ALL here please refrain from personal attacks. Let's stick to discussing issues, not people.

Any issues you all have must be dealt with via PM.

Thanks,
Vic

:end of discussion

Thanks Vic,

You saved me the trouble of a complete dismantling of the false spirit being propogated on this thread.

Blessings,

Quasar

 

[preterist]

Q. Your response pertaining to Caiaphas is a complete distortion from what is written in the Scriptures, as follows:

"'Yes, it is as you say,' Jesus replied. 'But I say unto all of you; IN THE FUTURE, YOU WILL SEE THE SON OF MAN SITTING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF THE MIGHTY ONE AND COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.'" Mt.26:64.

What Bible are you using? Is it the LaHaye Prophecy Study Bible?

(KJV) Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

(KJV-1611) Iesus saith vnto him, Thou hast saide: Neuerthelesse I say vnto you, Hereafter shall yee see the Sonne of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heauen.

(MKJV) Jesus said to him, You said it. I tell you more. From this time you shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of the heavens.


(YLT) Jesus saith to him, `Thou hast said; nevertheless I say to you, hereafter ye shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of the power, and coming upon the clouds, of the heaven.'

(ASV) Jesus said unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Henceforth ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.

So where you got the translation “IN the Future†is a mystery to me. So please don’t ever accuse me of distorting scripture.

The great Baptist theologian John Gill who is not a preterist understands this symbolic OT language:

and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. The Arabic version reads it, "ye shall see", as is expressed by Christ, in Mat_26:64. Where the high priest, chief priests, Scribes, and elders, and the whole sanhedrim of the Jews are spoken to: and as the same persons, namely, the Jews, are meant here as there; so the same coming of the son of man is intended; not his coming at the last day to judgment; though that will be in the clouds of heaven, and with great power and glory; but his coming to bring on, and give the finishing stroke to the destruction of that people, which was a dark and cloudy dispensation to them: and when they felt the power of his arm, might, if not blind and stupid to the last degree, see the glory of his person, that he was more than a mere man, and no other than the Son of God, whom they had despised, rejected, and crucified; and who came to set up his kingdom and glory in a more visible and peculiar manner, among the Gentiles.



Or maybe the Methodist/Wesleyan Adam Clarke is more to your liking:

Mat 24:30 -
Then shall appear the sign of the Son of man - The plain meaning of this is, that the destruction of Jerusalem will be such a remarkable instance of Divine vengeance, such a signal manifestation of Christ’s power and glory, that all the Jewish tribes shall mourn, and many will, in consequence of this manifestation of God, be led to acknowledge Christ and his religion. By της γης, of the land, in the text, is evidently meant here, as in several other places, the land of Judea and its tribes, either its then inhabitants, or the Jewish people wherever found.

Do these men fit your definition of scholarly theologians? You know like Jack Van Impe?

Q. More complete distortion of the proper interpretation of Mt.24:29. Jesus has just finished answering the questions His disciples asked Him: "...Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming AND THE END OF THE AGE?" In 24:15, Jesus refers to the 70th and final seven years of the decree placed upon them by God, and to the "he" of Dan.9:27, who is the very same person as the man of lawlessness in 2 Thes.2:3-4 and in vs 8. Who is the Antichrist and triggers the tribulation.

What age are they asking about? What age were they presently living in?

Isa.13:10 has nothing to do with the Medo-Persian defeat of Babylon! But rather, in vs 9, God prophecies through Isaiah about the coming Day of the Lord, the tribulation. The same Day of the Lord, Paul referes to in 2 Thes.2:3! The context In Isa.13 about the 'Day of the Lord,' runs from vs 9-13.

Your entire interpretive method falls apart on this statement alone.

You stop at verse 13, why? I’ll show you why:

Isa 13:17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, who shall not value silver; and they shall not delight in gold.
Isa 13:18 And bows shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not pity sons.
Isa 13:19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the majestic beauty of the Chaldees, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

Because it is obvious this speaks of the destruction of Babylon. At least you are consistent. You butcher and rearrange Is. 13 in the same manner as you do the Olivet Discourse. Please everyone, with an open mind and heart read Is 13 and see for yourself.

I would love to see how you treat Eze. 32. Especially verses 6-8. And Nahum 1:5, or Micah 1:3-4.

Q. The Revelation of Jesus Christ is His testimony CONCERNING THE PROPHECIES THAT NOT ONLY COVER THE REST OF THIS AGE, BUT ALSO A PART OF THE AGE TO COME! It is to be interpreted in a completely literal sense with the understanding that all the symbols represent something literally specific. Under no circumstances is it to be seen as a book of past history, as there is no way you or anyone else can make such a distortion of things yet to come an imaginary history book!

Speaking of imaginary, read any of your guru Tim LaHaye’s “Left Behindâ€Â.


Face it, none of you Preterists were ever provided the gift of prophecy by the Holy Spirit and should cease attempting to make a shambles of any and all biblical prophecy.

Which of the 5 denominations that you have been involved with, taught you this? What do you think the “gift of prophecy†is?

Q. Item #4. is the second trumpet judgement, a PROPHECY pertaining to the COMING WRATH OF GOD! It is in the midst of the coming tribulation and HAS NOT YET OCCURRED!

I know Gill and Clarke didn’t make your list of suitable theologians, did Spurgeon?

On Matthew 24:21
"For there shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Read the record written by Josephus of the destruction of Jerusalem, and see how truly our Lord’s words were fulfilled. The Jews impiously said, concerning the death of Christ, "His blood be on us, and on our children." Never did any other people invoke such an awlful curse upon themselves, and upon no other nation did such a judgment ever fall. We read of Jews crucified till there was no more wood for making crosses; of thousands of the people slaying one another in their fierce faction fights within the city; of so many of them being sold for slaves that they became a drug in the market, and all but valueless; and of the fearful carnage when the Romans at length entered the doomed capital; and the blood-curdling story exactly bears out the Savior’s statement uttered nearly forty years before the terrible events occurred."
"The destruction of Jerusalem was more terrible than anything that the world has ever witnessed, either before or since. Even Titus seemed to see in his cruel work the hand of an avenging God. (Commentary on Matthew, p. 412)
"Truly, the blood of the martyrs slain in Jerusalem was amply avenged when the whole city became veritable Aceldama, or field of blood." (Commentary on Matthew, p. 412,413)

Spurgeon the Heretic!


Q. Jesus reference to a "star" was to an angel. In this case, the discription of a specific 'thing,' is a described symbolically rather than literally. This symbol is used in other places as well.

I see, preterist are not allowed to use symbolism in interpreting Revelation, but you, with the obvious gift of prophecy, can? Nice rules, heads I win, tails you lose.

Peter has repeated Joel 2:23-32 that refers to the Day of the Lord, the tribulation and was not fulfilled at Pentecost. Nor was it fulfilled with the Holy Spirit filling ALL PEOPLE. BUT RATHER, ONLY THE 200 OR SO DISCIPLES OF JESUS IN THE BUILDING AT THAT TIME. The sub-title over the Joel passage from vs 28-32 is, "The Day of the Lord," an end times prophecy, which most certainly was not fulfilled at Pentecost, and a gaff by Peter.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, for this Jewel of honesty. “And a gaff by Peterâ€Â. Futurist never really come out and say it as boldly as you do but it is reflected in their writings. Peter and the other inspired NT writers must have made gaffs in order for your view to stand. Otherwise the heretical preterist would be correct in their views. Again thank you for your honesty. Your view is based on the assumption that NT writers wrote and spoke gaffs.

For those reading, here is what Peter said:

Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel:

Quasar says, “no it is not. Peter was mistakenâ€Â. Let the readers decide.

Finally, you realize sub-titles over passages are not inspired and were not in the original texts?


I suggest you look in other Bible translations than the one you are using to clarify hard to understand passages.

You mean like a literal translation?

Young’s Literal Translation:

Rev 9:16 and the number of the forces of the horsemen is two myriads of myriads, and I heard the number of them.

No, they will not be the 'Law and the Prophets!' But rather, they are the two olive trees and the two lamp stands that stand before the Lord of the earth [Vs 4]. That is symbolic of two men who are identified in vs 6 by the powers God gave to Moses and to Elijah, in Ex.7:20 and in 1 Kgs.17:1.

What are you doing? Using the OT as a foundation for symbols found in Revelation? I think I’ll try that.

Moses and Elijah? Hmmm, One representing the Law the other the Prophets. Interesting.

Jesus said His kingdom will be here on the earth through the events of His prophecies.

Luk 17:20 And being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered and said, The kingdom of God does not come with observation.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would fight so that I might not be delivered to the Jews. But now My kingdom is not from here.

P. >>>12. When did the false prophet show up? And who was he? Rev.13:11.

Perhaps the high priest and Sanhedrin. Or perhaps Herod Agrippa.<<<


I asked you when, not who

Re-read your question.

Thanks Vic,

You saved me the trouble of a complete dismantling of the false spirit being propogated on this thread.

Ahh yes, just in time for you not to answer any of my questions. What a coincidence. Why am I suprised.

 

[Quasar]

Difference between the Rapture and the 2nd Coming of Christ

Preterist

Q: Seems to me Vic wrote, "End of discussion," did he not? I suggest you start listening to sound doctrine and theology and get a new set of brakes to put a stop to the never ending flow of your false spirit.

P: Ahh yes, just in time for you not to answer any of my questions. What a coincidence. Why am I suprised.<<<


Q: I've wasted far more time than I should attempting to reason with you and the arrogant heretic exegesis you try promoting here, and you can not only continue to fester in it, but you will also do it alone from now on, as far as I'm conderned.

Questions you ask are on their second or third time around and most of them have all been answered at least once. I have better things to do than to chase my tail around in circles. The logic you try using on the questions asked, based upon Preterism, is faulty, beyond your knowledge or belief.

Dr. James Kennedy, PhD., is the Minister of the Coral Gables Church in FL, and is a Presbyterian Minister! He is not a Preterist.

Some of my quotes come from the NIV, as I have posted before, or the KJV or the NASB depending upon which one I choose to quote from.

 

[preterist]

Q: Seems to me Vic wrote, "End of discussion," did he not? I suggest you start listening to sound doctrine and theology

Such as Peter’s gaffs?

Questions you ask are on their second or third time around and most of them have all been answered at least once.

No, not really. But I understand you not wanting to answer.

Dr. James Kennedy, PhD., is the Minister of the Coral Gables Church in FL, and is a Presbyterian Minister! He is not a Preterist.

Did I bring up D James Kenndy?

For all the readers, these are the questions that will have to go unanswered:


1. Please explain why John 19:37 is not a fulfillment of Zech 12:10 as you stated earlier: "They look upon the one whom they have pierced," as written by John, is not the fulfillment of that prophecy at all.

Zec 12:10 And I will pour on the house of David, and on the people of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of prayers. And they shall look on Me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourns for his only son, and shall be bitter over Him, as the bitterness over the first-born.

Joh 19:36 For these things were done so that the Scripture might be fulfilled, "Not a bone of Him shall be broken."
Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "They shall look upon Him whom they pierced."

2. Are there any examples of a gap in scripture when 40 years, 40 days or 70 years are used? Is Daniel’s 70 weeks the only one that contains a gap?

3.If Messiah is cut off in the 70th week, how can you still have another 7 years still future to us?

Dan 9:26 And after sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself.

We understand the 62nd week is the 69th, and Messiah is cut off after the 69th, that means in the 70th. At least part of the 70th week was fulfilled at the time of Christ. Where do you get 7 years?

4. Who is the fourth Beast of Daniel 7?

5.Does Is 65-66 describe the New Heavens and New Earth or the Millennial Kingdom? You have it describing both.

6.You said this:

There are only two resurrections as documented in Rev.20:4-6. The rapture of the Church is not a resurrection, nor is it called one. Because when all of us who die, our physical bodies, our spirit/souls go to be with the Lord immediately

Does that mean you do not believe all those who have died in the Church Age are not physically resurrected? You said there are only 2 resurrections, none of which were for dead believers.

7.How are believers able to be present with the Lord at death if He has not returned?

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

8.You deny the Church is the New Jerusalem, but scripture says otherwise:

Rev 21:9 And one of the seven angels who had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, Come here, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from God,

How do you deny the Church is the New Jerusalem?

9.What last days did the writer of Hebrews live in?

Heb 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds,

What “end of all things†was Peter referring to?

1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things has drawn near. Therefore be of sound mind, and be sensible to prayers.

What “end of the ages†was Paul referring to?

1Co 10:11 Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Why was John told not to seal the book because the time was at hand?

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.

 

[Quasar]

Preterist quotes:



Quote:
Others who endorse the rapture theology of the Church are:

Charles Stanley, Baptist minister,
Futurist, yes. Quote:
James Kennedy, Presbyterian minister,

If this is D. Jame Kennedy of Coral Ridge, you are mistaken. I believe he's Amil historicist. Quote:
Dwight Pentecost, Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Harold Wilmington, Dean at Liberty Seminary, Arno Froese, Editor and CEO of Midnight Call Ministries, Thomas Ice, PhD., Author, Jack Van Impe, TV Ministry, Tim Le Hay, Author, Jerry Fallwell, Baptist minister, Billie Graham, TV ministry, Franklin Graham, TV minstry, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Wilfred Hahn, Dave Hunt, Ed Decker, Dr. Norbert Lieth, hundreds of thousands of others!



Quote:
Dr. James Kennedy, PhD., is the Minister of the Coral Gables Church in FL, and is a Presbyterian Minister! He is not a Preterist.


Did I bring up D James Kenndy?

 

[Quasar]

Sub of thread

Preterist qoutes:


Quote:
Others who endorse the rapture theology of the Church are:

Charles Stanley, Baptist minister,
Futurist, yes. Quote:
James Kennedy, Presbyterian minister,

If this is D. Jame Kennedy of Coral Ridge, you are mistaken. I believe he's Amil historicist. Quote:
Dwight Pentecost, Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Harold Wilmington, Dean at Liberty Seminary, Arno Froese, Editor and CEO of Midnight Call Ministries, Thomas Ice, PhD., Author, Jack Van Impe, TV Ministry, Tim Le Hay, Author, Jerry Fallwell, Baptist minister, Billie Graham, TV ministry, Franklin Graham, TV minstry, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Wilfred Hahn, Dave Hunt, Ed Decker, Dr. Norbert Lieth, hundreds of thousands of others!



Quote:
Dr. James Kennedy, PhD., is the Minister of the Coral Gables Church in FL, and is a Presbyterian Minister! He is not a Preterist.


Did I bring up D James Kenndy?

 

[preterist]

Re: Sub of thread

Preterist qoutes:


Quote:
Others who endorse the rapture theology of the Church are:

Charles Stanley, Baptist minister,
Futurist, yes. Quote:
James Kennedy, Presbyterian minister,

If this is D. Jame Kennedy of Coral Ridge, you are mistaken. I believe he's Amil historicist. Quote:
Dwight Pentecost, Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Harold Wilmington, Dean at Liberty Seminary, Arno Froese, Editor and CEO of Midnight Call Ministries, Thomas Ice, PhD., Author, Jack Van Impe, TV Ministry, Tim Le Hay, Author, Jerry Fallwell, Baptist minister, Billie Graham, TV ministry, Franklin Graham, TV minstry, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Wilfred Hahn, Dave Hunt, Ed Decker, Dr. Norbert Lieth, hundreds of thousands of others!



Quote:
Dr. James Kennedy, PhD., is the Minister of the Coral Gables Church in FL, and is a Presbyterian Minister! He is not a Preterist.


Did I bring up D James Kenndy?

Once again, re-read the thread. I am not JM. I did not bring up James Kennedy. However feel free to answer my questions that I posted.

 

[Quasar]

Subject of thread

Preterist

Poor baby! So sorry I accused you of reposting more completely irrelevant material to this subject. So you're still hurting for me to debunk more of the false eschatology you keep pushing for ? Fine - you asked for it!


P: 1. Please explain why John 19:37 is not a fulfillment of Zech 12:10 as you stated earlier: "They look upon the one whom they have pierced," as written by John, is not the fulfillment of that prophecy at all.

Zec 12:10 And I will pour on the house of David, and on the people of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of prayers. And they shall look on Me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourns for his only son, and shall be bitter over Him, as the bitterness over the first-born.

Joh 19:36 For these things were done so that the Scripture might be fulfilled, "Not a bone of Him shall be broken."
Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "They shall look upon Him whom they pierced."


Of course they looked upon Jesus whom they had pierced when He had been crucified. But that is a prophecy as to when Israel will finally recoognize their Messiah, when He returns to the earth in His Second Coming, in Zech.12:10. See Zech.9:14-17 and 14:4-5. Jn.19:37 is not a fulfillment of the Zech.12:10 prophecy!


P: 2. Are there any examples of a gap in scripture when 40 years, 40 days or 70 years are used? Is Daniel’s 70 weeks the only one that contains a gap?


Q: The bottom line is to your obsession there is no "gap" between the 69th "week" in Daniel 9:26 and vs 27. First of all, it IS NOT A MAN MADE GAP, to the contrary, it is God's decree on the existence of Israel during the seven millenniums the Scriptures reveal there is going to be. [By God's calendar, we are still in the sixth].

Verse 27 states, "He will confirm a covenant with many for one week." That equates to seven years! It continues with, "In the middle of the week, he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the temple he will set up an abomination, that causes desolation..." Confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15 in His narrative about conditions to come during the tribulation, leading up to His second Coming to the earth, when all nations and people WILL SEE HIM COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY. None of which has yet taken place!

You are actually so naive, to believe, "...to finish transgressions, put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness..." has already taken place? You better start looking around you to see that world conditions are getting worse and worse. And they will continue to do so until Jesus Second Advent, which we are now awaiting!


P: 3.If Messiah is cut off in the 70th week, how can you still have another 7 years still future to us?

Dan 9:26 And after sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself.

We understand the 62nd week is the 69th, and Messiah is cut off after the 69th, that means in the 70th. At least part of the 70th week was fulfilled at the time of Christ. Where do you get 7 years?



Q. In vs 25, 7 weeks are added to the 62 weeks, for a total of 69 weeks when the Messiah is cut off. Any idea He was cut off in the 70th week is completely false. The complete breakdown was posted for your benefit, on this thread, proving that fact, from the decree of Artaxerxes in his 2oth year of reign until Jesus crucifixion in or around 32 A.D.

Each of the 70 weeks is a period of seven years, which total 490 years of which 483 have been fulfilled. The final 7 years is the Jacob's Trouble of Jer.30:7 and Dan.9:27. The "gap" of 2,000 years or so, was for two reasons: 1. Israel was no longer a nation for a good part of that time. 2. It consists of the entire Church age, until the 'times of the Gentiles has come in,' or until everyone who has been predestined to become a belever, has done so.


P: 4. Who is the fourth Beast of Daniel 7?


Q: "He gave me this explanation: 'The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on the earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it.The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. [Confirmed in Rev.17:7-14, revealing that it has not yet been fulfilled]. He will speak against the Most High and oppose His saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saint [The tribulation saints - NOT THE CHURCH], will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time'" [3.5 years]. Exactly as seen in Dan.9:27.


P: 5.Does Is 65-66 describe the New Heavens and New Earth or the Millennial Kingdom? You have it describing both.


Q: Isa.65:17-18 refer to the new heaven and earth. Vss 19-25 refer to the millennial kingdom of Christ on the earth. Which by the calendar of God, will be the seventh and final millennium of thisd age, before He creates a new heaven and earth. Rev.21:1-2.


P: 6.You said this:

There are only two resurrections as documented in Rev.20:4-6. The rapture of the Church is not a resurrection, nor is it called one. Because when all of us who die, our physical bodies, our spirit/souls go to be with the Lord immediately

Does that mean you do not believe all those who have died in the Church Age are not physically resurrected? You said there are only 2 resurrections, none of which were for dead believers.


Q: My original quote was: "11. There are only two resurrections as documented in Rev.20:4-6. The rapture of the Church is not a resurrection, nor is it called one. Because when all of us who die, our physical bodies, our spirit/souls go to be with the Lord immediately [2 Cor.5:6-8, Phil.1:21-23 in confirmation with Ecc.12:7. When Jesus is revealed in the clouds of the sky to catch up all those who are left here on the earth alive, all those of us who have died previously belonging to Him, are seen coming with Him in 1 Thes.4:14, when He comes for those who are alive [1 Thes.4:15-17]. We will all have bodies like His [1 Jn.3:2 and 1 Cor.15:52-54]."

I should have said, "When all of us die physically, our spirit/souls go to be with the Lord immediately." As it would have been better understood. As in Ecc.12:7 and in Lk.16:19-31, our bodies return to the dust from where they came.

No, I do not believe the old perishable bodies we have that will die, is what is resurrected, as Jesus body was literally. But His was for a very important reason, and His body was not in the ground long enough to decay, as in Ps.16:10, or in the case of Lazarus whom Jesus raised from the dead after only four days, as in Jn.11:40 and vs 43-44.

However, as you can see from my quote above, exactly what the Scriptures reveal to us, which I have previously answered you with. "Read it again!"


P: 7.How are believers able to be present with the Lord at death if He has not returned?


Q: "Absent from the body, present with the Lord," 2 Cor.5:6-8, Phil.1:21-23 and Ecc.12:7.


P: Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Q. That is part of Jesus teachings that He is coming back for all of us who belong to Him, and are still alive at His appearing, When He will gather us together unto Himself and take us to be with He and our Father in heaven as written - in vs 28!

P: 8.You deny the Church is the New Jerusalem, but scripture says otherwise:


Q: The Bible doesn't teach such nonsense! Of course the Church is not the New Jerusalem in the new heaven and earth to come. The Church is occupying the mansions within the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven, as in Jn.14:28!

"I saw the Holy city, the New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, PREPARED AS A BRIDE beautifully dressed for her husband.


P: Rev 21:9 And one of the seven angels who had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, Come here, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from God,

How do you deny the Church is the New Jerusalem?


Q: It is not the new city of Jerusalem that is the Lamb's bride, but rather: All the saints who are of both the Church as well as Israel , and of all believing peop;es of every nationality on earth, who are inside the city.


P: 9.What last days did the writer of Hebrews live in?

Heb 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds,

What “end of all things†was Peter referring to?

1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things has drawn near. Therefore be of sound mind, and be sensible to prayers.

What “end of the ages†was Paul referring to?

1Co 10:11 Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Why was John told not to seal the book because the time was at hand?

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.


Q: All the apostles thought Jesus was going to return in their own time, as has every student of the Bible in His own time, since Jesus was resurrected from among the dead. It should be abundantly clear, all prophecy had not been fulfilled nor was it properly aligned for His return when they thought He would.

As I have shown you, in spite of the awesome accuracy or the Scriptures and fudiciary qualities they are, there is also the human factor in which there has been some error slip in. As I have alluded to Peter in acts 2:17-21, which is Joels prophecy of the Eay of the Lord, the tribulation. And of Jn.19:37, another end times prophecy that is yet to be fulfilled. In addition to the allusion to many remarks about living in the end times., as they only believed that, and obviously, it was not a fact of truth then, any more than it is for Preterists today!

The timetable for God's timetable to start the 70th and final week, before Jesus sets up His millennial kingdom here on the earth, has only for His appearing for His Church to occur for it to begin.

Blessings,

Quasar

 

[preterist]

Preterist

Poor baby! So sorry I accused you of reposting more completely irrelevant material to this subject. So you're still hurting for me to debunk more of the false eschatology you keep pushing for ?

Very childish. How old are you again? Why don’t we just debate scripture and leave this in the nursery. OK?

Fine - you asked for it!


P: 1. Please explain why John 19:37 is not a fulfillment of Zech 12:10 as you stated earlier: "They look upon the one whom they have pierced," as written by John, is not the fulfillment of that prophecy at all.

Zec 12:10 And I will pour on the house of David, and on the people of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of prayers. And they shall look on Me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourns for his only son, and shall be bitter over Him, as the bitterness over the first-born.

Joh 19:36 For these things were done so that the Scripture might be fulfilled, "Not a bone of Him shall be broken."
Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "They shall look upon Him whom they pierced."

Of course they looked upon Jesus whom they had pierced when He had been crucified. But that is a prophecy as to when Israel will finally recoognize their Messiah, when He returns to the earth in His Second Coming, in Zech.12:10. See Zech.9:14-17 and 14:4-5. Jn.19:37 is not a fulfillment of the Zech.12:10 prophecy!

Then what scripture is it a fulfillment of? You keep avoiding the obvious. John says it was a fulfillment of scripture, you say it is not Zech 12:10. Fine then show me what OT prophecy it fulfills. You cannot. John was wrong in your view.

P: 2. Are there any examples of a gap in scripture when 40 years, 40 days or 70 years are used? Is Daniel’s 70 weeks the only one that contains a gap?


Q: The bottom line is to your obsession there is no "gap" between the 69th "week" in Daniel 9:26 and vs 27. First of all, it IS NOT A MAN MADE GAP, to the contrary, it is God's decree on the existence of Israel during the seven millenniums the Scriptures reveal there is going to be. [By God's calendar, we are still in the sixth].

Verse 27 states, "He will confirm a covenant with many for one week." That equates to seven years! It continues with, "In the middle of the week, he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the temple he will set up an abomination, that causes desolation..." Confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15 in His narrative about conditions to come during the tribulation, leading up to His second Coming to the earth, when all nations and people WILL SEE HIM COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY. None of which has yet taken place!

In other words, you can’t find an example. Daniel 9 is the ONLY place where there is a gap. This should be a red flag to everone, especially since the 70 weeks are based on the 70 years of Babylonian captivity. Which of course there was no gap in.

You are actually so naive, to believe, "...to finish transgressions, put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness..." has already taken place? You better start looking around you to see that world conditions are getting worse and worse. And they will continue to do so until Jesus Second Advent, which we are now awaiting!

I gave scripture supporting my view that those were fulfilled in Christ.

P: 3.If Messiah is cut off in the 70th week, how can you still have another 7 years still future to us?

Dan 9:26 And after sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself.

We understand the 62nd week is the 69th, and Messiah is cut off after the 69th, that means in the 70th. At least part of the 70th week was fulfilled at the time of Christ. Where do you get 7 years?



Q. In vs 25, 7 weeks are added to the 62 weeks, for a total of 69 weeks when the Messiah is cut off. Any idea He was cut off in the 70th week is completely false. The complete breakdown was posted for your benefit, on this thread, proving that fact, from the decree of Artaxerxes in his 2oth year of reign until Jesus crucifixion in or around 32 A.D.

He was cut off AFTER the 69th week. After, not during and not at the end of, AFTER.


.

P: 4. Who is the fourth Beast of Daniel 7?


Q: "He gave me this explanation: 'The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on the earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it.The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. [Confirmed in Rev.17:7-14, revealing that it has not yet been fulfilled]. He will speak against the Most High and oppose His saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saint [The tribulation saints - NOT THE CHURCH], will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time'" [3.5 years]. Exactly as seen in Dan.9:27.

How about an answer to the question, who is the fourth Beast of Daniel. It might help to identify the first 3.

P: 5.Does Is 65-66 describe the New Heavens and New Earth or the Millennial Kingdom? You have it describing both.


Q: Isa.65:17-18 refer to the new heaven and earth. Vss 19-25 refer to the millennial kingdom of Christ on the earth. Which by the calendar of God, will be the seventh and final millennium of thisd age, before He creates a new heaven and earth. Rev.21:1-2.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth. And the things before will not be remembered, nor come to mind.
Isa 65:18 But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
Isa 65:19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and I will rejoice in My people; and the voice of weeping will no more be heard in her, nor the voice of crying be heard in her.
Isa 65:20 There will not be an infant, nor an old man that has not filled his days. For the child will die a hundred years old; but the sinner who is a hundred years old will be despised.
Isa 65:21 And they will build houses and live in them; and they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
Isa 65:22 They will not build, and another live in them; they will not plant, and another eat. For like the days of a tree are the days of My people, and My elect will long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isa 65:23 They will not labor in vain, nor bring forth for terror. For they are the seed of the beloved of Jehovah, and their offspring with them.
Isa 65:24 And it will be, before they call I will answer; and while they are still speaking, I will hear.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the food of the snake. They will not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, says Jehovah.

Another butchering of scripture, there is no divide between verses 18 and 19. The same Jerusalem rejoicing in vs. 18 is the same Jerusalem that He will rejoice in of vs.19. There is no change of subject. Your entire Millennial view just went up in smoke. You adjust scripture to fit your eschatology.

P: 6.You said this:

There are only two resurrections as documented in Rev.20:4-6. The rapture of the Church is not a resurrection, nor is it called one. Because when all of us who die, our physical bodies, our spirit/souls go to be with the Lord immediately

Does that mean you do not believe all those who have died in the Church Age are not physically resurrected? You said there are only 2 resurrections, none of which were for dead believers.


Q: My original quote was: "11. There are only two resurrections as documented in Rev.20:4-6. The rapture of the Church is not a resurrection, nor is it called one. Because when all of us who die, our physical bodies, our spirit/souls go to be with the Lord immediately [2 Cor.5:6-8, Phil.1:21-23 in confirmation with Ecc.12:7. When Jesus is revealed in the clouds of the sky to catch up all those who are left here on the earth alive, all those of us who have died previously belonging to Him, are seen coming with Him in 1 Thes.4:14, when He comes for those who are alive [1 Thes.4:15-17]. We will all have bodies like His [1 Jn.3:2 and 1 Cor.15:52-54]."

I should have said, "When all of us die physically, our spirit/souls go to be with the Lord immediately." As it would have been better understood. As in Ecc.12:7 and in Lk.16:19-31, our bodies return to the dust from where they came.

No, I do not believe the old perishable bodies we have that will die, is what is resurrected, as Jesus body was literally. But His was for a very important reason, and His body was not in the ground long enough to decay, as in Ps.16:10, or in the case of Lazarus whom Jesus raised from the dead after only four days, as in Jn.11:40 and vs 43-44.

I happen to agree with this view. There is no bodily resurrection of those who die today. However all or most of those Bible scholars you listed would disagree with this view and label it heresy.

P: 8.You deny the Church is the New Jerusalem, but scripture says otherwise:


Q: The Bible doesn't teach such nonsense! Of course the Church is not the New Jerusalem in the new heaven and earth to come. The Church is occupying the mansions within the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven, as in Jn.14:28!

"I saw the Holy city, the New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, PREPARED AS A BRIDE beautifully dressed for her husband.

This supports my view. Why would the New Jerusalem be dressed like a bride if it is not a bride?

P: Rev 21:9 And one of the seven angels who had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, Come here, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from God,

How do you deny the Church is the New Jerusalem?


Q: It is not the new city of Jerusalem that is the Lamb's bride, but rather: All the saints who are of both the Church as well as Israel , and of all believing peop;es of every nationality on earth, who are inside the city.

Of course the obvious problem is, scripture says no such thing. The angel told John he would show him the New Jerusalem and so the angel showed him the Lamb’s wife, the Bride. Quite clear.

P: 9.What last days did the writer of Hebrews live in?

Heb 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds,

What “end of all things†was Peter referring to?

1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things has drawn near. Therefore be of sound mind, and be sensible to prayers.

What “end of the ages†was Paul referring to?

1Co 10:11 Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Why was John told not to seal the book because the time was at hand?

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.


Q: All the apostles thought Jesus was going to return in their own time,

Why did they think that? How could they think that if there were still prophecies left to be fulfilled? These are inspired writers, at least in my view. Perhaps you differ. How could inspired writers declare false things whether intentional or not. Again, you have defeated your own argument when you question the accuracy of inspired writers.

As I have shown you, in spite of the awesome accuracy or the Scriptures and fudiciary qualities they are, there is also the human factor in which there has been some error slip in.

There it is again. A nice way of saying the inspired writers were WRONG. I don’t think you even understand the gravity of your belief. If they are wrong about eschatology, then perhaps they are wrong in other areas of theology. You have opened Pandora’s Box.

As I have alluded to Peter in acts 2:17-21, which is Joels prophecy of the Eay of the Lord, the tribulation. And of Jn.19:37, another end times prophecy that is yet to be fulfilled. In addition to the allusion to many remarks about living in the end times., as they only believed that, and obviously, it was not a fact of truth then, any more than it is for Preterists today!

If it was "not a fact of truth" then, then it was a falsehood. So you are saying, whether you wish to admit it or not, the NT writers were false teachers.


Luk 21:8 And He said, Take heed that you are not deceived, for many shall come in My name, saying, I AM! Also, The time has come! Do not go after them.

Here are your false teachers and their false statements:


1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things has drawn near. Therefore be of sound mind, and be sensible to prayers.

Jam 5:8 You also be patient, establish your hearts, for the coming of your Lord draws near.

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.

So Peter, James and John were wrong but Tim LaHaye is correct. No thanks.


You have indirectly made the case that if the NT writers were to believed concerning their time-statements, then preterism would be true. Thank you.

 

[Vic C.]

Since the insults won't stop, let me give you a helping hand.