Resurrection: What, who, and when?

[reba]

Definition of CORPOREAL

1
: having, consisting of, or relating to a physical material body:

as a : not spiritual b : not immaterial or intangible : substantial

 

[noble]

Hi Stormcrow;

This is my third attempt to respond to you and Handy. I get the text in the response and I lose it... my computer hates me!

We know physical in this context refers to flesh and blood: the corporeal,
but does it follow then that spiritual means ethereal (ghostly,
non-corporeal)?
Or does spiritual mean supernatural in the strictest sense of the word:
"above the natural?" In other words, is our spiritual body not simply a ghostly
apparition - which is what most people think when they think of the spiritual
body - but a physical body created to operate in a wholly different environment
than we can possibly imagine?

I see nothing physical after the physical death of the earthly body. To make a long story short I will use this point. Jesus Christ was in my church last Sunday and nobody saw Him. We will be like Jesus when we see Him again.
Matthew 18:20
For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.â€

noble

 

[noble]

Hi handy;

Do you not believe in a bodily resurrection? I guess I'm a bit confused as to
where you are coming from.

Thanks for responding.

No, I don't believe in a body resurrection. I believe the earthly body decays and returns to the dust leaving our inner self/spirit/soul to be taken to heaven to be clothed with the spiritual body which is eternal in heaven. 2 Cor 5:1-8.

noble

 

[jasoncran]

well this will make reba's ears tickle ,lol

but theres a amil pastor that i listen too who is a partial preterist and states that the ressurection is a bodily one. so even the idea of the partial preterists buy into a physical ressurection.

 

[Lehigh3]

will the full preterists explain that the Lord said the meek shall INHERIT the earth?

if eternal life is in heaven then how then is that possible?

Jesus is not speaking about life after we leave earth in the Beatitudes. The "meekness" is considered a virtue, like humility. Those were instructions by Jesus.

The only one that mentions the kingdom of heaven is the one which says, "blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

Think of the apostles. Did they receive their rewards in heaven or on earth?

 

[Lehigh3]

We will be supernatural beings, like, Jesus, Moses & Elijah on the transformation on the mount.
God will transform our lowly bodies.

Philippians 3:20-21

New International Version (NIV)

20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.



Of course the "we" in that verse were the 1st Christians. But the post-AD70 Christians go straight to heaven where we are supernaturally clothed.

 

[reba]

Lehigh Posting here again the Words of Jesus... and asking you About His words last day. He is speaking of resurrection for the good and bad how do His words last day fit your view... I hope this is not off topic

Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. Is this dead as in body dead or dead in sin?

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[noble]

Hi handy;

I've never been able to understand the idea of a "resurrection of the soul".
There is no example of such in the Scriptures, all resurrections were of the
body not just a soul.

As I have read the bible I have never seen where a body would ever gain eternal life. Let's look at the advice of Paul.

As Paul starts the lesson he writes..
35 But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?â€
How are the dead raised? Not how are the bodies raised, but how are the dead raised? In fact it asks what kind of BODY the dead will be raised with.

Jesus is in heaven as of now in bodily form. He was resurrected in bodily form
and ascended into heaven in bodily form.

AS I wrote in another post Jesus was in my church last Sunday and nobody saw Him. That spells invisible body to me and invisible would be spiritual. The men who were with Saul outside of Damascus heard Jesus but they did not see Him. That spells invisible to mortals Jesus to me and therefore a spiritual bodied Jesus. Then there is Acts 10 where, in the KJV, says God 'shewed Him openly;! What is that!!! Until I read how the NASB translated the phrase it never jumped out at me.

Acts 10

40 God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,

Where then the idea of a "resurrection of the soul" as opposed to the body
and how is a "soul" to operate here on earth without a body. I'm curious
as to the concept.

I don't see the eternal life being on earth, I see it in heaven and in heaven the flesh and blood body doesn't work.
2 cor 5
1 Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

At our death our earthly body is destroyed and when it is we then have a new body to cloth our spirit/soul with. God gives us that body. That body is to eternally cloth our spirit/soul IN heaven. 2 Cor 5:2-8.
2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling,

There again, the person, not the earth body, but the person.... WE are clothed

3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.
Here comes immortality or the eternal life in heaven.

5 Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

There is the promise which is the Romans 8:23 connection, also the born again thing from 1 Pete 1:
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you,
Back to 2 COr 5
6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord.

So in this body we are not with the Lord....

7 We live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

.... but when we, the spirit/soul of we, go to be with the Lord when our earthly body is destroyed (verse 1) then we will be at home with the LOrd. Our earthly body back in the grave and our spirit/soul clothed with the spiritual heavenly body which is eternal for us IN heaven.

So that's how I fit it together.

noble

 

[noble]

We will be supernatural beings, like, Jesus, Moses & Elijah on the transformation on the mount.
God will transform our lowly bodies.

Philippians 3:20-21

New International Version (NIV)

20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

Of course the "we" in that verse were the 1st Christians. But the post-AD70 Christians go straight to heaven where we are supernaturally clothed.

I'll have to get used to this 'supernatually clothed' reference. I'm still stuck back in Paul's letter where he talked about the earthly body and the heavenly body... one being physical and one being spiritual.

noble

 

[handy]

But Jesus made it very clear that He raised bodily from the grave...complete with the wounds that He sustained during crucifixion.


"Why are you troubled and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. (Luke 24:38-39)
Can we deal with just this particular passage before moving onward?

 

[noble]

Hi handy;

But Jesus made it very clear that He raised bodily from the grave...complete
with the wounds that He sustained during crucifixion.

Is that the only thing He made clear? Let's first deal with your verse below.

"Why are you troubled and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. (Luke 24:38-39)

Can we deal with just this particular passage before moving onward?

Sure.

I think the verse above should be taken word for word as it comes off the page. I see nothing to indicate this should be taken as symbolic for anything... just word for word. I think Jesus actually stood in front of Thomas with the wounds that KILLED Him. From this verse I also learn that my understanding of a spirit is the biblical meaning as well, at least in this context. A spirit does NOT have flesh and bone... a spirit has neither flesh nor bone, and hence my definition of a spirit which is invisible to mortals.

Here I will assume that you, like many others, consider this flesh and bone body that Jesus had as He talked to Thomas has to be the one that the witnesses and the angels saw ascend to heaven. BUT why is this particular verse allowed to trump all the other verses which indicate the state of the body Jesus had after His resurrection.
John 2 tells us that Jesus is going to raise up His body..

19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.â€
20 The Jews replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?†21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.

That body did not have the wounds that KILLED Jesus yet He said He would raise THIS temple. That is the first thing I take into consideration here. Next there are verses which indicate Jesus is totally incorporael after His ascension.

You will remember Jesus entered a room where the people had locked the doors. The hint is there that Jesus can pass thru the doors without opening said door. That eliminates any and all physicality. Two masses can not occupy the same space at the same time. The wall is physical and for Jesus to pass thru it, He can not be physical.

As I wrote earlier the guards did not see Jesus leave the tomb because they were not in the group that God chose to SEE Jesus.Acts 10:41. Jesus sat and ate with some people and then suddenly disappeared from sight. A physical body does not do that.

So there are verses which also show Jesus as being non-physical. So why must we consider only the 'flesh and bone' verse and conclude Jesus rose to heaven in THAT state. Why could Jesus not raise in the body that went thru the wall? Why did Jesus have wounds at all when we read John 2?
People, I should say trinitarians, can easily accept that, because Jesus is God, He can manifest Himself in a state where He can pass thru a wall or become invisible at a table. So then why can't Jesus maniufest Himself as a flesh and bones person to talk to Thomas.

Okay with that as a background let's go thru why Jesus should or did, remain as a flesh and bone body which was NOT a spirit. I know of no such verse so we will have to go with what you or others offer here....

noble

 

[Beck]

The great thing about this article is that it gives us both a historical basis and a Jewish perspective by which we can understand this idea. I think it's it's important to understand what exactly the resurrection meant to the Jews of Paul's time so that we can understand what he wrote in I Corinthians 15 about it.

{50} Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. {51} Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, {52} in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. {53} For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Corinthians 15:50-53 (NASB)
​

Let the study and comment begin!

Hi Stormcrow,

I would add that the parallel of Lazarus and the Rich Man could play a role in getting a better understanding of this Resurrection, but first I would like to start by asking some questions in hope to get us thinking.

Concerning what Paul had given symbols of the body resurrection of the dead in 1 Corinthians 15.

{50} Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. {51}Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, {52} in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. {53} For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Corinthians 15:50-53 (NASB)
​

Paul refered to a mystery in that not all shall sleep, but we shall all be changed. So here's some questions:

• In what manner should we interpert 'sleep' would that relate to being 'Awaken' from sleep (1 Cor.15:34 & Eph.5:14)
• Could we relate this mystery of the body to that of the mystery of the body of Christ (Eph.5:30-32)?

 

[handy]

Hi handy;



Is that the only thing He made clear? Let's first deal with your verse below.

"Why are you troubled and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. (Luke 24:38-39)


Sure.

I think the verse above should be taken word for word as it comes off the page. I see nothing to indicate this should be taken as symbolic for anything... just word for word. I think Jesus actually stood in front of Thomas with the wounds that KILLED Him. From this verse I also learn that my understanding of a spirit is the biblical meaning as well, at least in this context. A spirit does NOT have flesh and bone... a spirit has neither flesh nor bone, and hence my definition of a spirit which is invisible to mortals.

OK, so we are together so far...

Here I will assume that you, like many others, consider this flesh and bone body that Jesus had as He talked to Thomas has to be the one that the witnesses and the angels saw ascend to heaven. BUT why is this particular verse allowed to trump all the other verses which indicate the state of the body Jesus had after His resurrection.

You're right that I'm "assuming" that Jesus ascended into heaven with the same body that He appeared to the disciples with...the post resurrection body. The reason why this particular verse should "trump" ...not all other verses, but rather let's say any interpretation that Jesus' post resurrection/ascension body was not physical, is because it is clear that no other transformation of Jesus took place between the time He was resurrection and His ascension. To imply otherwise would certainly be adding a significant event to history which the Scriptures do not allude to.

John 2 tells us that Jesus is going to raise up His body..

19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.â€
20 The Jews replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?†21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.

That body did not have the wounds that KILLED Jesus yet He said He would raise THIS temple. That is the first thing I take into consideration here.

I would appreciate it you could elaborate as to what you're getting at here. Yes, Jesus raised the same body that He had lived in for 33 years here on earth.

Next there are verses which indicate Jesus is totally incorporael after His ascension.

You will remember Jesus entered a room where the people had locked the doors. The hint is there that Jesus can pass thru the doors without opening said door. That eliminates any and all physicality. Two masses can not occupy the same space at the same time. The wall is physical and for Jesus to pass thru it, He can not be physical.

As I wrote earlier the guards did not see Jesus leave the tomb because they were not in the group that God chose to SEE Jesus.Acts 10:41. Jesus sat and ate with some people and then suddenly disappeared from sight. A physical body does not do that.

So there are verses which also show Jesus as being non-physical. So why must we consider only the 'flesh and bone' verse and conclude Jesus rose to heaven in THAT state. Why could Jesus not raise in the body that went thru the wall? Why did Jesus have wounds at all when we read John 2?
People, I should say trinitarians, can easily accept that, because Jesus is God, He can manifest Himself in a state where He can pass thru a wall or become invisible at a table. So then why can't Jesus maniufest Himself as a flesh and bones person to talk to Thomas.

Okay with that as a background let's go thru why Jesus should or did, remain as a flesh and bone body which was NOT a spirit. I know of no such verse so we will have to go with what you or others offer here....

noble

All right...I'll try to add some texts for your consideration.

After death wasn't the first time that Jesus acted in a manner that was supernatural in nature. Even prior to the resurrection, Jesus did things in His flesh and bone body that defies natural laws.

For instance, there is the very famous example of Jesus walking on water. Something impossible for a flesh and blood body to do, and yet Jesus did it. (Matthew 14:22-33)

There was also the transfiguration in which Jesus' face shone and His clothing became "white as light"...again a supernatural occurrence with Jesus' flesh and bone body. (Matthew 17)

Then there were several occasions when the mob wanted to seize Jesus and kill Him, and He miraculously hid Himself and passed through the midst of the mob, unharmed, due to the fact that it wasn't yet time for His death. (Luke 4:28-30; John 8:59; John 10:31-39)

These are all instances that show that Jesus, even in His flesh and bone body, the body born of Mary, could do things no corporal body should be able to do. How then is it so surprising that after the resurrection, He could appear in a room, or hide His true identity from those He is walking and talking with?

 

[noble]

Hi handy;

You're right that I'm "assuming" that Jesus ascended into heaven with the same
body that He appeared to the disciples with...the post resurrection body.

Yes, I understand. However, that is what I do too! I assume Jesus ascended to heaven in the exact same body He appeared to His disciples in.... but we believe He left different!

The reason why this particular verse should "trump" ...not all other
verses, but rather let's say any interpretation that Jesus' post
resurrection/ascension body was not physical, is because it is clear that
no other transformation of Jesus took place between the time He was
resurrection and His ascension. To imply otherwise would certainly
be adding a significant event to history which the Scriptures do not
allude to.

No other transformation took place. Okay, that seems to be a good argument and a reasonable place to start. Then you have some verses which you feel follows this argument.

After death wasn't the first time that Jesus acted in a manner that was
supernatural in nature. Even prior to the resurrection, Jesus did things in
His flesh and bone body that defies natural laws.

Correct.

For instance, there is the very famous example of Jesus walking on water.
Something impossible for a flesh and blood body to do, and yet Jesus did it.
(Matthew 14:22-33)

Yes.

There was also the transfiguration in which Jesus' face shone and His clothing
became "white as light"...again a supernatural occurrence with Jesus' flesh and
bone body. (Matthew 17)

Yes, this 'transfiguration' holds the key in my mind, but I have not developed enough biblical connections to justify my idea.

Then there were several occasions when the mob wanted to seize Jesus and kill
Him, and He miraculously hid Himself and passed through the midst of the mob,
unharmed, due to the fact that it wasn't yet time for His death. (Luke 4:28-30;
John 8:59; John 10:31-39)

Yes, this is somewhat different than His disappearing at the table after His death tho, wouldn't you agree.

These are all instances that show that Jesus, even in His flesh and bone body,
the body born of Mary, could do things no corporal body should be able to do.
How then is it so surprising that after the resurrection, He could appear in a
room, or hide His true identity from those He is walking and talking with?

No, it doesn't surprise me that Jesus could do those things, whether in the flesh and bones or flesh and blood body. But of course, it is equally as possible for Jesus to manifest Himself to Luke in a flesh and bones body too. in fact He could appear in a non-spirit body in front of as many people as He wanted to.

I think I already pointed out the NASB translation which shows that God granted that Jesus become VISIBLE in the tomb. Jesus would become visible to about 500 people, not all the people as the guards never saw Him, but to a chosen group who would serve as witnesses to the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Allow me to add to my arguments which I have already presented.
Paul writes in 1 COr 15:
45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living beingâ€; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

Jesus will become a spirit Paul says and when Jesus talked to Thomas He was not a spirit. When did Jesus change to spirit? I don't know of any place in the bible which says that Jesus changed to a spirit...... or do I?

My best guess is that Jesus Christ was 100% man and 100% God. I realize the math is fuzzy there but in this one and only case involving God, I think the math could work. Jesus was 'transfigured' where much is made of the purity of the 'white' the holiness of the entire situation and the fact that spirits or whatever the biblical definition were of ELijah and Moses are, were there and were seen by all present. My hypthosis is that at that 'transfiguration' which was the son coming on His kingdom, Jesus was transfigured back to being fully God. The 'man' Jesus was still manifest on earth, but Jesus was back to being fully God. At the cross the MAN part ceased to exist and the invisible God was once again in full power. That explains why the physocal body was gone from out of the death clothes, that would explain why God had to grant that Jesus become visible, that would explain why no one ever noticed that Jesus Christ would be naked and that would explain why Jesus could walk thru walls, appear as a non-spirit anywhere He wanted, yet later on be invisible when He spoke to Saul outside of Damascus. This also fits with how Jesus could get thru that rock the day He was killed to meet with the theif in paradise.

Please understand that the above in italics is NOT biblically proven and I throw it out for interest only and really I hope anyone who reads it and has any biblical insight for the idea OR against it to let me know. I don't intend what I wrote to in any way refute your statements.

Anyway back to your argument that Jesus left that day in a physical body, I would like to summmarize as follows:

You feel Jesus left as a physical body and therefore will return to earth in a physical body. Since we will be like Jesus when we see Him again, you feel that we are physically resurrected as well... right?

I argue that Jesus returns to us in the spiritual realm where Jesus is a spiritually bodied, not physically or earthly bodied man and we are raised to eternal life in a spiritually bodied or invisible to mortals body in heaven where we remain forever.

So for me the resurrection is of the soul only to a new heavenly body, it is heaven for believers, Hell for the others and the resurrection of the dead is over meaning that we will be raised to eternal life or eternal torment at the time of our personal death.

I hope I understand your idea properly. There is more than one idea about all of this and I find it easy to mix up the details.

noble

 

[LastSeven]

It is especially nice for me to see that it is accepted that the resurrection if Daniel 12 includes both the wicked and the righteous. That is fought tooth and nail by a lot of people even tho it os written right there.

noble

Yes. I have run into the same kind of resistance. I don't understand it because it clearly says the resurrection will include both righteous and wicked. In other words everybody will be resurrected. Not only the Christians.

Furthermore, Daniel 12 says this resurrection will happen at the time of the great distress. Knowing that only the martyrs are resurrected before the millennium, this resurrection that Daniel is speaking of must be the resurrection after the millennium. Which means also that the great distress happens after the millennium.

Simple.

 

[LastSeven]

In what manner should we interpert 'sleep' would that relate to being 'Awaken' from sleep (1 Cor.15:34 & Eph.5:14)

I've always taken "sleep" to mean death, but the reason they use the word sleep instead of death is because it is a temporary state. So when Paul says we will not all sleep, he is simply saying we will not all die.

Matthew 9:24
he said, “Go away. The girl is not dead but asleep.†But they laughed at him.

The girl was dead in the sense that we think of as being dead. But Jesus sees death in a different light because he knows we will all be resurrected / awakened from death. In the verse above He is simply stressing the point we don't need to cry over people who die because they will live again.

Could we relate this mystery of the body to that of the mystery of the body of Christ (Eph.5:30-32)?

The mystery of Christ is the gospel and everything that it encompasses. It is the fact that he is the life and through him all things were created and through him we will have eternal life. Being members of the body of Christ is all part of the plan for salvation. Jesus is the plan. When Jesus hands over the kingdom to God the father after the millennium, the plan will be complete.

That's why we can correlate the millennium to the plan. The word used for millennium in the Bible actually literally means 10 x 10 x 10. And 10 means completion. The "millennium" is simply a word that describes the complete plan that God has for mankind (it's not a literal thousand year period) and when it is finished, death will be swallowed up in victory and we will live happily ever after on the new Earth with our God.

So Jesus is the mystery that destroys death and sin and allows us to dwell with him spotless and clean. When Paul says "I tell you a mystery" that could be paraphrased as "I am telling you about Jesus".

1. Build a perfect earth with perfect people through Jesus.
2. Allow Satan to introduce sin to the earth.
3. Send Jesus to overcome sin.
4. Force people to choose between Satan's sinful world, and Jesus' perfect world.
5. Make perfect those who chose Jesus and bring them home.
6. Destroy Satan, sin, death and all the people who chose him over Jesus.
7. We live happily ever after.

This is the mystery of Jesus. The plan of God.

 

[noble]

Yes. I have run into the same kind of resistance. I don't understand it because it clearly says the resurrection will include both righteous and wicked. In other words everybody will be resurrected. Not only the Christians.

Furthermore, Daniel 12 says this resurrection will happen at the time of the great distress. Knowing that only the martyrs are resurrected before the millennium, this resurrection that Daniel is speaking of must be the resurrection after the millennium. Which means also that the great distress happens after the millennium.

Simple.

Gee, I agree with a lot of people on this site!

noble

 

[Beck]

I've always taken "sleep" to mean death, but the reason they use the word sleep instead of death is because it is a temporary state. So when Paul says we will not all sleep, he is simply saying we will not all die.

I've come to understand that 'sleep' is the state of being unaware, not sober having lack of knowledge, blind...Scriptures like how Paul himself used 'sleep' of those that are of the night.


1 Thess.5:5-8 KJV
5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Romans 13:11-12 KJV
11And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
12The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.


James defined 'death' which is not related to sleep. The body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.(James 2:26 KJV)


Even within the context of 1 Cor. 15 Paul crys out for them to 'AWAKE' to righteousness, and sin not (1Cor.15:34)


Paul again in Ephesians crys out for them to 'AWAKE' thou that sleepth. Now Paul wasn't calling for the dead in their graves to raise, but those that stood there that day that slumber about as if they where in darkness [lack of knowledge] and to those that disbelieved.


Ephesians 5:13-14
13But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

The correlation to I Cor.15 'We shall not all sleep' is that Paul is revealing the mystery of God's redemptive plan for man. Paul said that everyone shall not be blind having not the knowledge of Christ saving power, but in turn Paul reveals to them that 'All shall be changed'. Paul again is revealing the mystery that he spoke of in Ephesians concerning Jews and Gentiles.

Those that are asleep is those that of the Jewish nation that when they heard the word rejected, but as the natural branch was cut off from the olive tree they as well like the Gentile will be grafted into the olive tree again, that ALL of Israel shall be saved. This to me is what Paul is addressing in a metaphor in 1 Cor. 15.

Matthew 9:24
he said, “Go away. The girl is not dead but asleep.” But they laughed at him.

The girl was dead in the sense that we think of as being dead. But Jesus sees death in a different light because he knows we will all be resurrected / awakened from death. In the verse above He is simply stressing the point we don't need to cry over people who die because they will live again.

As James would have put it the spirit that which contains life had not separate from the body to which they would have related to sleeping.

 

[handy]

This is another interesting and serious discussion that I've not been able to have the time for this week. Thanks for your responses Noble, and hopefully next week I'll have more time to compose some thoughtful and researched responses. As of now, if I'm on-line it's just for mental "down time"...