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Lyric's Dad
Guest
Best thing is to not take matters of such importance from the person doing your makeup.Quath said:
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cubedbee
Guest
Lyric's Dad said:
No, the Bible doesn't say anything about other planet's existing, yet we have observed dozens of them, both in our solar systems and others. I know you meant another planet with life, but my point is that just because the Bible is silent on something doesn't mean that thing doesn't exist.
Not necessarily. Jesus had to die for our sins because we are fallen. What if their our other planets with creatures that never fell from God's original state? They would not require a sacrifice for their salvation. And even if their are other fallen planets, that's not to say that Jesus' sacrifice on our planet doesn't atone for the sins of those living on other planets. Jesus says "I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd" This could be reasonably be referring to other planets. Jesus didn't have to be sacrificed in the same country or continent as me for me to receive salvation, why would you think that he has to be sacrificed on the same planet?
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SyntaxVorlon
Guest
Alternatively, why couldn't Jesus die for the sins of all living things everywhere all at once.cubedbee said:
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lindsey
Guest
If i would base my answer from the bible, I certainly DISAGREE WITH BIILLY GRAHAM. Sorry about that but i am just being honest to say that nowhere in the bible has it stated that God created intelligent entities aside from human beings.
8-)
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lindsey
Guest
If that would be your answer quath, the bible does not mention the word trinity therefore it does not exist.
If you'll gonna answer, do it nicely.
has the bible mentioned about the species of all living things, such as plants and animals and compiled it and categorized it in scientific names?
the bible was clear, God created only Adam and Eve as the first man and woman after HIS IMAGE.
iF YOU CAN SUPPORT ME WITH ANSWERS that God created some outer space entities parallel to humans then we could perhaps talk but as long as you cut answers that way, you donot give any merit.
If you'll gonna answer, do it nicely.
has the bible mentioned about the species of all living things, such as plants and animals and compiled it and categorized it in scientific names?
the bible was clear, God created only Adam and Eve as the first man and woman after HIS IMAGE.
iF YOU CAN SUPPORT ME WITH ANSWERS that God created some outer space entities parallel to humans then we could perhaps talk but as long as you cut answers that way, you donot give any merit.
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lindsey
Guest
I could agree if some would say that there are things existing without the bible mentioning it IF that would edify FAITH IN GOD, ( the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) AND FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS ( THE LION OF JUDAH) but the danger of pressuming literal things existing without even a slight implication from the Word of God leads greatly to formation of cultic ideas and doctrines which is more dangerous.
8-)
8-)
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lindsey
Guest
QUOTE:
The Rev. Billy Graham firmly believes that intelligent life is thriving on other planets - and that these outer-space aliens probably look amazingly like people on Earth.
"Our solar system is just one of billions in God's colossal Creation - and I find it very hard to believe He would have created only one living planet, Earth," the famed evangelist declared in an exclusive interview.
"I firmly believe there is intelligent life in outer space - beings who probably look very much like the average American."
END OF QUOTE-
How could billy graham say this? If one would read intently mr graham stated that "beings" probably look very much like average american?
Why single out americans? isn't this prejudice? why not just say average humans to give the whole of humanity its share of resemblance?
The Rev. Billy Graham firmly believes that intelligent life is thriving on other planets - and that these outer-space aliens probably look amazingly like people on Earth.
"Our solar system is just one of billions in God's colossal Creation - and I find it very hard to believe He would have created only one living planet, Earth," the famed evangelist declared in an exclusive interview.
"I firmly believe there is intelligent life in outer space - beings who probably look very much like the average American."
END OF QUOTE-
How could billy graham say this? If one would read intently mr graham stated that "beings" probably look very much like average american?
Why single out americans? isn't this prejudice? why not just say average humans to give the whole of humanity its share of resemblance?
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lindsey
Guest
Quote:
1. Outer-space beings have the capability to visit Earth - but would come in peace.
2. They worship God, just as we do.
3. They could hold the solution to many of Earth's problems
1. How can billy graham say that outer space beings (his pressumptions) would come in peace? If we base our knowledge from what the bible says
the earth is going to destruction and in the last days the love of many will grow cold ("And because iniquity will abound, the love of many will grow cold." Matthew 24:120)
then some aliens coming for peace would be a contradiction.
2.How can he say that "they" worship God? when in fact the book of the future that is Revelations speaks of people perishing because they worship the beast instead of God?
3,"They" could have the solution to our many problems?"
This is absurd, the earth is to be destroyed because man does not reach any solution to his problems, the prophecy in the book of revelations
will come to pass that all will be destroyed.
I am not here for a quarrel, i came here for discussions and discourses,
but i could not force anybody to be on my side as anyone could not force me either to what i strongly regard as mythical and does not conform with the bible.
1. Outer-space beings have the capability to visit Earth - but would come in peace.
2. They worship God, just as we do.
3. They could hold the solution to many of Earth's problems
1. How can billy graham say that outer space beings (his pressumptions) would come in peace? If we base our knowledge from what the bible says
the earth is going to destruction and in the last days the love of many will grow cold ("And because iniquity will abound, the love of many will grow cold." Matthew 24:120)
then some aliens coming for peace would be a contradiction.
2.How can he say that "they" worship God? when in fact the book of the future that is Revelations speaks of people perishing because they worship the beast instead of God?
3,"They" could have the solution to our many problems?"
This is absurd, the earth is to be destroyed because man does not reach any solution to his problems, the prophecy in the book of revelations
will come to pass that all will be destroyed.
I am not here for a quarrel, i came here for discussions and discourses,
but i could not force anybody to be on my side as anyone could not force me either to what i strongly regard as mythical and does not conform with the bible.
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lindsey
Guest
quote:
Not necessarily. Jesus had to die for our sins because we are fallen. What if their our other planets with creatures that never fell from God's original state? They would not require a sacrifice for their salvation. And even if their are other fallen planets, that's not to say that Jesus' sacrifice on our planet doesn't atone for the sins of those living on other planets. Jesus says "I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd" This could be reasonably be referring to other planets. Jesus didn't have to be sacrificed in the same country or continent as me for me to receive salvation, why would you think that he has to be sacrificed on the same planet?
end of quote
I have other sheep that donot belong to this fold....."
Has anyone considered these words seriously? and equate it to aliens?
Has anyone considered that the sheep pertained is Israel? The flock of God is the people of Israel. God promises to put his servant David over them to be their shepherd. And he speaks of having to judge between sheep and sheep.
This leads to the second observation, namely, that in John 10 some sheep are Christ's and some are not
"...He calls HIS OWN sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them." Verse 14: "I am the good shepherd; I know MY OWN and MY OWN know me." In other words, not all the people in the flock of Israel truly belonged to Christ. Some were his sheep. Some weren't.
This is Jesus' way of talking about election. God has chosen a people for his own. These are his elect sheep
So Jesus can speak with confidence about some sheep among the flock of Israel that are definitely his, because they first belonged to the Father by election and then were given to the Son by the Father --
The verse implies that the "other sheep" that Christ has are scattered outside the present fold. This is made explicit in John 11:51-52, where John explains a word of prophecy spoken by Caiaphas, the high priest,
Perhaps it's about time we take our bible studies seriously. personally I could not allow myself to be enticed by various opinions which could lead to false hopes and beliefs.
:smt089
Not necessarily. Jesus had to die for our sins because we are fallen. What if their our other planets with creatures that never fell from God's original state? They would not require a sacrifice for their salvation. And even if their are other fallen planets, that's not to say that Jesus' sacrifice on our planet doesn't atone for the sins of those living on other planets. Jesus says "I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd" This could be reasonably be referring to other planets. Jesus didn't have to be sacrificed in the same country or continent as me for me to receive salvation, why would you think that he has to be sacrificed on the same planet?
end of quote
I have other sheep that donot belong to this fold....."
Has anyone considered these words seriously? and equate it to aliens?
Has anyone considered that the sheep pertained is Israel? The flock of God is the people of Israel. God promises to put his servant David over them to be their shepherd. And he speaks of having to judge between sheep and sheep.
This leads to the second observation, namely, that in John 10 some sheep are Christ's and some are not
"...He calls HIS OWN sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them." Verse 14: "I am the good shepherd; I know MY OWN and MY OWN know me." In other words, not all the people in the flock of Israel truly belonged to Christ. Some were his sheep. Some weren't.
This is Jesus' way of talking about election. God has chosen a people for his own. These are his elect sheep
So Jesus can speak with confidence about some sheep among the flock of Israel that are definitely his, because they first belonged to the Father by election and then were given to the Son by the Father --
The verse implies that the "other sheep" that Christ has are scattered outside the present fold. This is made explicit in John 11:51-52, where John explains a word of prophecy spoken by Caiaphas, the high priest,
Perhaps it's about time we take our bible studies seriously. personally I could not allow myself to be enticed by various opinions which could lead to false hopes and beliefs.
:smt089
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bibleberean
Guest
Although I agree with most of what Lindsey wrote I don't agree on this point.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
This is referring to the Gentiles. That the Gentiles were be fellowheirs of the same promise was not known to the Old Testament prophets.
Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
The "other sheep" are the Gentiles outside of the sheepfold of Israel.
The promise of Salvation is for those who are fallen under the headship of Adam the first man.
That is why I know there are no men or intelligent beings on other planets except for heavenly beings like the angels etc..
1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Man is an earthly being not an alien from outer space.
1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Death came upon man by Adam. Eternal life came by Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Salvation is for "earth men"...
Billy Graham like so many other areas of doctrine is wrong in this one as well.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
This is referring to the Gentiles. That the Gentiles were be fellowheirs of the same promise was not known to the Old Testament prophets.
Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
The "other sheep" are the Gentiles outside of the sheepfold of Israel.
The promise of Salvation is for those who are fallen under the headship of Adam the first man.
That is why I know there are no men or intelligent beings on other planets except for heavenly beings like the angels etc..
1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Man is an earthly being not an alien from outer space.
1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Death came upon man by Adam. Eternal life came by Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Salvation is for "earth men"...
Billy Graham like so many other areas of doctrine is wrong in this one as well.
Yeah, and it is a hotly debated topic. It is logically impossible for the father to be greater than the son and also be equal to the son. I am sure you have some rationale around this, but so do the Christians that do not believe in the Trinity.lindsey said:
Anyway, I was answering your logic "nowhere in the bible has it stated that God created intelligent entities aside from human beings", which is in other words "if it is not in the Bible, it does not exist."
Sosomething can exist (such as intelligent beings or uranium), and not be mentioned in the Bible.
This does not say that God did not make other images or other lviing thibgs elsewhere.
I am just saying that the Bible does not say if it happened or not. Therefore, intelligent life outside Earth is not ruled out by the Bible.
Quath
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lindsey
Guest
I am just saying that the Bible does not say if it happened or not. Therefore, intelligent life outside Earth is not ruled out by the Bible.Quath said:
Quath[/quote:54fdc]
How could you say that other christians donot believe in the TRIUNE GOD?
TRIUNE GOD is christianity, it is so disappointing to know that you equate branding "other christians" without believing in the basic foundation of the Scripture. Those who donot adhere to the three personalities of the CHRISTIAN GOD fall into other categories. I hope you get what i mean.
I was supposedly asking you to support your premises and prove things existing without the bible mentioning it. I said i may accept these provided it has something to do with edifying FAITH in the TRIUNE GOD.
The Roman Catholics believe in traditions not written i donot rule out all traditions as long as it does not contradict the bible. I was waiting for specified answers.
Let me tell you something, Scientology together with other cultic religions made it appear that the christian teachings about 'RAPTURE' has been a very effective way of equating to UFO'S .. the counterfeit of declaring that all believers would be taken up to space...
THAT IS THE DANGER , of picking up notions everywhere. I have great respect for billy graham as a person, but it is pretty much dangerous to
read and listen to others much more, popular evagelists throughout the world. How many times people are deceived by being fanatacis and extremists? I would prefer to consult the bible with deep studies and prayers then compare.
Because I have talked to other people that believe that Jesus is the son of God; Jesus is the way to heaven; yet Jesus is not God.lindsey said:
Check out Trinity on Trial for a list of verses in the Bible that do not support the concept of a Trinity. Remember, the Trinity does not appear in the Bible, it was a concept made up by people trying to understand the Bible.
Uranium has nothing that edifies faith in the triune God. Yet it exists. Some things can exist and be neutral on issues of faith. Aliens could fall into this category.
The only place I could see where aliens would mess with faith is if aliens came down and say that they had pretended to be God as a practical joke on the humans on Earth. Then we all laugh and say we were "Punk'd" by the best.
People see science as legitimate and solid. So if people can throw science in their religion, they feel it has more solidity. This is kind of how Scientology works. Unfortunately, most people don't really understand science, so this just turns into a parlor trick.
Quath
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lindsey
Guest
Because I have talked to other people that believe that Jesus is the son of God; Jesus is the way to heaven; yet Jesus is not God.
Check out Trinity on Trial for a list of verses in the Bible that do not support the concept of a Trinity. Remember, the Trinity does not appear in the Bible, it was a concept made up by people trying to understand the Bible.
-------------------
If you want thorough discussions about Christ's deity not here, this is not the proper thread but to give you an insight.. we are talking about christianity and christianity speaks of Jesus as the God-Man. He is very God and very man.
Trinity? The baptismal of Jesus in the bible supports the three personalities of the triune God.
And when Christ said only the Father knows the time.. (about His second coming) there is a direct declaration about Father-son personalities Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect" (Matthew 24:44).working in unity.
And when Christ said.. there is an unforgivable sin..against the Holy Spirit ( implying God could only be transgressed with such to be "unforgivable)
there is a perfect picture of the Triune God.
we can go on forever but this is not the proper channel.
and when you say:
it was a concept made up by people trying to understand the Bible.
Isn't this applied to you? When you try to deny understandng the concept of the triune God in your own thinking? You don't adhere to such because that is what you are trying to believe in. And who can say you are right?
I can support my answers, but to discuss it with you when you deny parts of the Scripture would be futile.
Check out Trinity on Trial for a list of verses in the Bible that do not support the concept of a Trinity. Remember, the Trinity does not appear in the Bible, it was a concept made up by people trying to understand the Bible.
-------------------
If you want thorough discussions about Christ's deity not here, this is not the proper thread but to give you an insight.. we are talking about christianity and christianity speaks of Jesus as the God-Man. He is very God and very man.
Trinity? The baptismal of Jesus in the bible supports the three personalities of the triune God.
And when Christ said only the Father knows the time.. (about His second coming) there is a direct declaration about Father-son personalities Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect" (Matthew 24:44).working in unity.
And when Christ said.. there is an unforgivable sin..against the Holy Spirit ( implying God could only be transgressed with such to be "unforgivable)
there is a perfect picture of the Triune God.
we can go on forever but this is not the proper channel.
and when you say:
it was a concept made up by people trying to understand the Bible.
Isn't this applied to you? When you try to deny understandng the concept of the triune God in your own thinking? You don't adhere to such because that is what you are trying to believe in. And who can say you are right?
I can support my answers, but to discuss it with you when you deny parts of the Scripture would be futile.
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lindsey
Guest
Uranium has nothing that edifies faith in the triune God. Yet it exists. Some things can exist and be neutral on issues of faith. Aliens could fall into this category.
The only place I could see where aliens would mess with faith is if aliens came down and say that they had pretended to be God as a practical joke on the humans on Earth. Then we all laugh and say we were "Punk'd" by the best.
-------------
Uranium has something to edify faith. The universe in its entirety would dictate a Supreme Power that has the capacity to create such magnificent system. Planets rotating in its own individual axis, hanging visibly without colliding each other would bring amazement to all. This is one of the innumerable proofs that One Mighty God, creator of everything exist and therefore belief and faith is edified.
Any power that counterfeits would not directly say they are gods. They will immitate to the strictest measure that even the elect would be deceived.
The only place I could see where aliens would mess with faith is if aliens came down and say that they had pretended to be God as a practical joke on the humans on Earth. Then we all laugh and say we were "Punk'd" by the best.
-------------
Uranium has something to edify faith. The universe in its entirety would dictate a Supreme Power that has the capacity to create such magnificent system. Planets rotating in its own individual axis, hanging visibly without colliding each other would bring amazement to all. This is one of the innumerable proofs that One Mighty God, creator of everything exist and therefore belief and faith is edified.
Any power that counterfeits would not directly say they are gods. They will immitate to the strictest measure that even the elect would be deceived.
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lindsey
Guest
People see science as legitimate and solid. So if people can throw science in their religion, they feel it has more solidity. This is kind of how Scientology works. Unfortunately, most people don't really understand science, so this just turns into a parlor trick.
And who told you that the bible is not also a science book?
It is about general medicine
inventions
creations
gynecology
statistics and probabilities
astronomy
psychology
cosmos
natural laws
name it and you have it.
What is so unique about the bible is that it deals with the inner being of man..the dimension where LOVE performs where science is caught dumb silent about it.
And who told you that the bible is not also a science book?
It is about general medicine
inventions
creations
gynecology
statistics and probabilities
astronomy
psychology
cosmos
natural laws
name it and you have it.
What is so unique about the bible is that it deals with the inner being of man..the dimension where LOVE performs where science is caught dumb silent about it.
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lindsey
Guest
To bibleberean, I appreciate the replies you made, but rest assured i will post later, i have to attend to some pressing matters, again .. be back the soonest.
lindsey