Bible Study Revelation On Only One God The Father

[Squeakybro]

ONLY ONE GOD THE FATHER-ONLY ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST
THE FATHER IS GOD-JESUS IS LORD
JESUS IS NOT GOD
John 17:3
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
1 Cor 8:5-7
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
7 However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.
Acts 17:24-25
24 "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.
25 "Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.
John 4:23-24
23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
1 Pet 4:19
19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator.
1 Cor 11:27
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:7
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.
I Jn 2:4
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
I Jn 2:3
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
I Jn 3:19
19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.
I Jn 3:22-24
22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
I Jn 4:2-3
2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
I Jn 4:12-15
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.
13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.
14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.
15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
I Jn 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
I Jn 5:12-13
12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
Col 1:15-16
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
Rom 1:20
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
1 Tim 1:17
17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
II Jn 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Matt 11:27
27 "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
John 14:28
28 "You have heard Me say to you, 'I am going away and coming back to you.' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I.
John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)

xxx Jesus is very specific about revealing who God really is. And if you dont know who Jesus really is, how will you ever find out who God the Father really is? To confess means to agree fully. So to confess that Jesus came in the flesh, and that Jesus is the Son of God. One has to question those that say God came in the flesh, and Jesus is God. Because they do not agree fully that it was Jesus instead of God. Now God was manifested(made known) to us by Jesus that God was with Him. But Jesus also made known to us that God left Jesus on the cross to die alone. There is only One God the Father. Jesus was created by God the Father. Jesus was created a man, after Jesus proved Himself to God in obedience. God gave Jesus a ministry and a title of Lord over earth. Then after Jesus was resurrected God the Father gave Jesus a new title as a God over heaven and earth. Because Jesus purchased us from the law of sin and death(old testament).

xxJesus said He was a son of man, and God was never a man, nor a son of man.

Num 23:19
19 "God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
(NKJ)

Matt 8:20
20 And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head."
(NKJ)

Matt 9:6
6 "But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins"-- then He said to the paralytic, "Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house."
(NKJ)

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Hi: this is not revelation: this is recycling. As in recycling an old heresy (Arianism) wherein Christ is typified as a creation.

Here's the biblical problem for this view:
Revelation 1:10-13

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send [it] unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks [one] like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

John clearly identifies Christ (Son of Man) as the Almighty God (pantokrator). He does so again in his gospel
John 1:1-2

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

So He was with God and is God. As for 'in the beginning'- this does not mean that there was a time before the bginning, ie a time when Christ was not.

The disciples understood - or, in some cases, came to understand Christ to be God:
Matthew 28:16-17

Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

John20:27-28

Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

The very term used to describe Christ as 'the only begotten Son' in scripture means one of a kind. He is therefore not a mode of the father, nor is He a created being, for a created God is a second God, and then we have biTheism at the least.

 

[Squeakybro]

Lots of opinion and very little evidence. Did you read your verses carefully. Did you see this one
. And I turned to see the voice that spake with me.

John didnt know who was talking to him. When he turned around he did see Jesus. But he didnt know whos voice it was talking to him.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Lots of opinion and very little evidence. Did you read your verses carefully. Did you see this one
. And I turned to see the voice that spake with me.

John didnt know who was talking to him. When he turned around he did see Jesus. But he didnt know whos voice it was talking to him.
Now take a look at all the verses in the revelation that you are trying to dispute.

My scripture citations from the previous post are four times the volume of my comments, of which a small portion was, as you put it, opinion.

John turned and saw one like a Son of Man- an obvious reference to Christ. In verse 17, this 'Son of Man' says to John

And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

First and last- protos kai eschatos- this is a reprise of alpha and omega. Proof? The 'alpha and omega' is Jesus, as verse 18 goes on to say

I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

This is what is known as an airtight expository treatment of this verse. You have also not dealt with John 1:1, nor will you be able to.

Case closed.

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
John turned and saw one like a Son of Man- an obvious reference to Christ. In verse 17, this 'Son of Man' says to John

I said
Maybe obvious to the carnal mind. But it wasnt obvious to me. He heard a voice and didnt see who said it. But when he turned around he seen Jesus. You have forgotten that even Jesus never spoke on His own authority, but He only spoke what the Father told Him to say.

John 12:49
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
(NKJ)

 

[Orthodox Christian]

you said
John turned and saw one like a Son of Man- an obvious reference to Christ. In verse 17, this 'Son of Man' says to John

I said
Maybe obvious to the carnal mind. But it wasnt obvious to me. He heard a voice and didnt see who said it. But when he turned around he seen Jesus. You have forgotten that even Jesus never spoke on His own authority, but He only spoke what the Father told Him to say.

John 12:49
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
(NKJ)

Hi: allow me to repeat the two verses together:

And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."

I added the quote marks so you could see the unbroken statement from He who says He is first and last, and also says He is He who lives, and was dead, and is alive forevermore. Clearly, this is Jesus. Clearly, Jesus says He is first and last (protos kai eschatos), which is exactly the same as Alpha and Omega.

He said that He is God- just that simple.

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
I added the quote marks so you could see the unbroken statement from He who says He is first and last, and also says He is He who lives, and was dead, and is alive forevermore. Clearly, this is Jesus. Clearly, Jesus says He is first and last (protos kai eschatos), which is exactly the same as Alpha and Omega.

He said that He is God- just that simple.

I said
That is talking about Jesus and He is the first and the last of the new testament. God is the Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end of this world as we know it.
I notice you do alot of assuming with your understanding.

 

[Free]

That is talking about Jesus and He is the first and the last of the new testament. God is the Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end of this world as we know it.
I notice you do alot of assuming with your understanding.

Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Rev 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."

Is that clear enough for you Squeakybro? Who did you say the Alpha and Omega was? Your revelations, if they are revelations at all, are not of God.

 

[bmeasure]

and since you want to re-hash this topic...I'll just re-hash my reply:

God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are all GOD.....period. They are separate persons (or different aspects of the same being) just like each of us has a soul, spirit, and a body. God (the soul), Holy Spirit (the spirit), and Jesus (the body). To tell me that my soul isn't part of me is just nit-picking about titles (who is "me" anyways?) Is "me" my body? God forbid because this fallen body is the part of me causing such trouble. Until I get a glorified body, I'm not complete as God is.

You get things distorted when you start to apply our worldly knowledge to understanding the greater things of God. His 3 "aspects" may be in separate locations and performing different tasks, but they are most certainly in one accord and one in purpose, power, and love. I could go into tons of scripture, but to be honest, I'm not even going to bother. I have tried debating people to death and it doesn't change them. The fact is God is three individuals who are one person also. God's ways are above our ways, and His thoughts above our thoughts. Only the Holy Spirit (our helper which is part of God) can direct you to this revelation. God bless.

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are all GOD.....period. They are separate persons (or different aspects of the same being) just like each of us has a soul, spirit, and a body. God (the soul), Holy Spirit (the spirit), and Jesus (the body). To tell me that my soul isn't part of me is just nit-picking about titles (who is "me" anyways?) Is "me" my body? God forbid because this fallen body is the part of me causing such trouble. Until I get a glorified body, I'm not complete as God is.

You get things distorted when you start to apply our worldly knowledge to understanding the greater things of God.

I said
You talk about worldly knowledge, and that is what the trinity belief is.
SOME BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS GOD???????????
WHO BELIEVES THIS??????????????
Those Who Worship In The Flesh
In Ro 9-1,8 it explains that those who believe that Jesus is God are those who worship in the flesh not in the Spirit.
Paul explained it like this. He said he had great sorrow and continual grief in his heart over these people. He said it bothered him so much that according to his flesh and the way he felt, he could almost wish he were accursed from Christ for his brethren.
These are the Israelites, that should be receiving the promised massiah, but they believe that Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. But its not that the Word of God has taken no affect. For they are not all going to believe this. But these that believe it are not the children of God.

Rom 9:1-8
1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit,
2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart.
3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh,
4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises;
5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called."
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.


Those who believe that Jesus is God use verse 58 as evidence in the "I Am" delusion. They dont look at the context of the I am statement. The conversation was over a two day period. And it started in John 7-39 these people didnt have the Holy Spirit they were worshiping in the flesh not in the Spirit. And the question was is this man the Christ. And Jesus answered them a number of times. Jesus said "I Am He" and when they got to the point of stoneing Jesus to death Jesus was in the middle of " I Am" and they picked up the stones and you can see in verse 59 Jesus got out of there.
John 7:39-41
39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
40 Therefore many from the crowd, when they heard this saying, said, "Truly this is the Prophet."
41 Others said, "This is the Christ." But some said, "Will the Christ come out of Galilee?
John 8:24
24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
John 8:28
28 Then Jesus said to them, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.
John 8:58-59
58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Those that believe Jesus is God also try to make a defense out of the "are one" delusion.
Just because the statement "are one" is in there doesnt mean Jesus is God. If that statement makes Jesus God then the next statement makes us God also. Which we know this is not true.
The "are one" statement has to do with being one in agreement.

John 10:30
30 "I and My Father are one."

John 17:21-22
21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

I Jn 5:7-8
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

The whole Godhead. Are those who are in total agreement with God. The Godhead consists of God the Father, Jesus the Son who is in total agreement with the Father, and the Holy Spirit who is in total agreement with the Father. And that agreement is evident in the Word.

Col 2:9-10
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
Rom 1:20
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
(NKJ)

God came up with the Word, Jesus only spoke the Word, and the Holy Spirit only quotes the Word. That is the Godhead.

John 12:49-50
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
John 16:13-14
13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.

The Word is written in two covenants.The old covenant(testament) and the new covenant(testament). Satans throne was and is in the old testament. Jesus laid it down in many different ways. Dont go by the old testament, stay away from the old testament. If you accidentally or on purpose keep any part of the old testament you are subject to the whole entire thing. Jesus was point blank in John 10 when He said "All who ever came before Me" but if that isnt good enough look in Gal 4and 5. Abraham had two sons, verse 24 this is symbolic of the two testaments. Now look in verse 30 "cast out the old testament". And if that isnt good enough what about 2John. If you dont abide in the doctrine of Christ, you won't find the word Christ in the old testament. If you dont abide in the doctrine of Christ you dont have the right God.

John 10:8-9
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

Gal 4:22-5:4
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise,
24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar--
25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children--
26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written: "Rejoice, O barren, you who do not bear! Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor! For the desolate has many more children than she who has a husband."
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman."
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

CHAPTER 5

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
II Jn 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

The people that believe Jesus is God are those who worship in the flesh with their carnal reason and logic. These are not the children of God. These are not those who worship in the Spirit.

 

[Free]

How about a reply to my post Squeakybro?

 

[Orthodox Christian]

That is talking about Jesus and He is the first and the last of the new testament. God is the Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end of this world as we know it.
I notice you do alot of assuming with your understanding.

Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Rev 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."

Is that clear enough for you Squeakybro? Who did you say the Alpha and Omega was? Your revelations, if they are revelations at all, are not of God.

Exactly, Free.
In addition, I had already pointed out to you, Squeaky, that 'first and last' of verse 17 is protos and eschatos. This is not, as you have assumed, first and last of the New Testament. This is, as I have said, a variation on the statement alpha and omega (alpha being the first letter of the Greek alphabet, omega being the last)

I notice you do alot of assuming with your understanding.

Actually, I've pretty much laid down an ironclad, logical exposition of this obvious scripture. Next time, squeaky, rather than dodge my points by claiming I'm importing opinion and assumption, why don't you disprove me via scripture/scriptural exegesis?

 

[Squeakybro]

Orthodox you said
protos and eschatos.

I said
That is also mans wisdom. Dont you know that the meaning of words and even the words themselves have changed over the years. What you are holding on to is mans wisdom.
I am sharing the hidden wisdom that has been hidden from all generations.

1 Cor 2:7
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
(NKJ)

1 Cor 2:4-5
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
(NKJ)

Col 1:26
26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints.
(NKJ)

Orthodox do you know what orthodox means. It means traditional. The biggest problem with being traditional is if your teacher was deceived then you are deceived.

Mark 7:6-9
6 He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
8 "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men-- the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do."
9 And He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.
(NKJ)

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Orthodox you said
protos and eschatos.

I said
That is also mans wisdom. Dont you know that the meaning of words and even the words themselves have changed over the years. What you are holding on to is mans wisdom.
I am sharing the hidden wisdom that has been hidden from all generations.

And now we have it: faced with mounting biblical and exegetical evidence against your particular revelation, you cling to your revelation, and refer to mine as 'man's wisdom.'

Actually, I shouldn't say 'my' revelation: I mean the revelation that I agree with. After all, it was Christ Himself who revealed Himself as Lord of all Creation to John. When He revealed Himself to me, it was primarily through the scriptures, and specifically through John 1:1 and Revelation 1. These are part of the Church's revelation of Christ, that is to say, Christ revealing Himself to the Church.

I encourage you to continue to seek God for revelation- after all, God is Lord and has revealed Himself to us: this is the heart of the Christian faith. I wonder though, now as I often do, at those who believe that after 2000 years of martyrs, mystics, poets, Pietists, monks, preachers, and so forth, how it is that you - and others- come to believe that everyone else is wrong, and that you're right. I'm not saying that this couldn't possibly be, but it does seem unlikely. Double the unlikeliness when you have ignore strong scriptural arguments, triple the unlikeliness when people who disagree about so many things agree that you are missing the boat entirely.

Charles Taze Russell, EG White, Joseph Smith, Miller, Montanus, Pelagius, Marcion, Arius- these each had 'revelation' that contradicted the rest of the Body Christian. I leave it to the reader to decide whether such revelations have bourne good fruit and/or good doctrine.

Orthodox do you know what orthodox means. It means traditional. The biggest problem with being traditional is if your teacher was deceived then you are deceived.

Actually, my friend, the word "orthodox" is a compound Greek term that combines ortho (straight/correct) with doxa (glory/speech/praise).
Orthodox means 'correct glory.' While this infers a correctness of doctrine, which by extension becomes tradition, this does not refer directly to tradition at all.

Your biggest problem, my friend, is that you don't know who your teacher is. We are all taught by someone, and not by the Holy Spirit only. Our culture, our media, our parents, our friends, even our children teach us.

I assume that I am deceived to a degree, because no one has perfect knowledge or doctrine. We all live with certain biases and blind spots. But I know that I am not deceived about the passage in question, and I know that you have no compelling counter-argument. My argument was not elaborately constructed- I simply read to you what the scripture says.

Mark 7:6-9
6 He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
8 "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men-- the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do."
9 And He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.
(NKJ)

Let's try to keep this civil- there is no need for you to impute unsavory motivation to me. I ask you to consider why it is that when your argument is rebuffed, you are motivated to call into question my integrity. Perhaps you believe that I am calling into question yours- I am not. I am simply pointing out the holes in your 'revelation.' If I thought there was benefit in your revelation, I would comment on that as well- I just do not see the benefit in denying the Divinity of Christ.

Are you attempting to preserve and defend the consumate otherness, unknowedness, and transcendence of God the Father? Because I assure you, this is maintained within Trinitarian theology.
James

 

[Squeakybro]

Orthodox you said
I encourage you to continue to seek God for revelation- after all, God is Lord and has revealed Himself to us: this is the heart of the Christian faith. I wonder though, now as I often do, at those who believe that after 2000 years of martyrs, mystics, poets, Pietists, monks, preachers, and so forth, how it is that you - and others- come to believe that everyone else is wrong, and that you're right. I'm not saying that this couldn't possibly be, but it does seem unlikely. Double the unlikeliness when you have ignore strong scriptural arguments, triple the unlikeliness when people who disagree about so many things agree that you are missing the boat entirely.

I said
What in the world are you talking about here. Do you even know what a revelation is???? Its a series of verses from all over the new testament given while in meditation. Do you even know what the difference is between the milk understanding and the meat understanding?????

 

[Abiyah]

I said
What in the world are you talking about here. Do you even know what a revelation is???? Its a series of verses from all over the new testament given while in meditation. Do you even know what the difference is between the milk understanding and the meat understanding?????

QUESTION ? Do you Squker ?

 

[Free]

Squeakybro,

You still haven't addressed the points Orthodox and I have made concerning Jesus referring to himself as the Alpha and Omega, a name which you stated refers to God.

 

[Squeakybro]

Abiyah you said
QUESTION ? Do you Squker ?

I said
I will take that as your answer you dont know.

 

[Abiyah]

I said
I will take that as your answer you dont know.

Squeker, from your interpretation of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, you have need of MEAT, that is for sure. For as Christ said "Ye shall know them by their fruits." I know you !

Abiyah

 

[bmeasure]

I love ya squeeky, but you have got some far out issues that only the Spirit of God can help you with. I hope that doesn't sound arrogant or self-righteous. I don't mean it in a condescending way either. I just mean that your beliefs are so far from what my beliefs are that I don't have a basis for speaking truth to you. I can only say what the Bible says, but you have used several scriptures in your posts (which to me prove my point) but you have somehow interpretted them in ways that I can't even begin to fathom, nor do I want to.

That is also mans wisdom. Dont you know that the meaning of words and even the words themselves have changed over the years. What you are holding on to is mans wisdom.
I am sharing the hidden wisdom that has been hidden from all generations.

I mean I've seen about a dozen posts you've started now which are pretty much all "off the beaten path" if you know what I mean. I do believe that you are hearing spiritual things and that the spirit is speaking to you......the problem is WHAT SPIRIT IS SAYING THIS STUFF TO YOU? This is not the Holy Spirit of the one and Living God. But then, you don't believe the Holy Spirit is God anyways, so why would you listen to him, right?

The Bible isn't meant to be a book of obscure truths that must be dissected from the normal story-line. The story is plainly laid out. This is written this way because new Christians need simple truth. Once you start progressing in a relationship with God, then he starts to show you hidden meanings (which will always reflect upon the simple story of the Gospel). If these "deeper, hidden truths" start to show you that the simple truth is wrong, then you are reading too far between the lines. I believe you should seek after God with all your heart and passion, but relax when it comes to discerning truth. The Holy Spirit does the work for you.....you don't have to do the calculations yourself. Let Him instruct you.

I don't generally try to convince anyone of anything about God's truth if they don't believe the Scripture is absolutely true (in context). Again, from your quote above, you said:

What you are holding on to is mans wisdom.

and you were referring to the Bible (right?) but if you don't believe that God is powerful enough to keep his Word pure through all time, and that the Scripture is infallible, then there is no "measuring stick" or basis for you to measure truth. When you hear from that spirit you are listening to, how will you know when it is fact or fiction? Scripture says that Satan will come as an angel of light (meaning he will convince you he's good and pure). As soon as something doesn't back up the Scripture, it is of the devil...period. I love you and pray that God will direct all of us into truth and understanding. Peace.