Bible Study Revelation On Only One God The Father

[Orthodox Christian]

Orthodox you said
I encourage you to continue to seek God for revelation- after all, God is Lord and has revealed Himself to us: this is the heart of the Christian faith. I wonder though, now as I often do, at those who believe that after 2000 years of martyrs, mystics, poets, Pietists, monks, preachers, and so forth, how it is that you - and others- come to believe that everyone else is wrong, and that you're right. I'm not saying that this couldn't possibly be, but it does seem unlikely. Double the unlikeliness when you have ignore strong scriptural arguments, triple the unlikeliness when people who disagree about so many things agree that you are missing the boat entirely.

I said
What in the world are you talking about here. Do you even know what a revelation is???? Its a series of verses from all over the new testament given while in meditation. Do you even know what the difference is between the milk understanding and the meat understanding?????

Clearly I do not have the same definition of revelation as you- but, as I mentioned, other people have- people like Charles Taze Russell, who, when meditating on the scriptures regarding Michael the Archangel, who defends Israel, came to understand that Jesus was actually Michael, incarnated. Of course, Russell's anti-Trinitarian beliefs may have moved him toward said revelation.

The difference between milk and meat, as mentioned by Paul in 1 Corinthians 3, is obvious:
Milk is easy, pleasing, nurturing food for the dependent babe- one who is not ready to face the hardships of this present age.
Meat, on the other hand, is hard to swallow truth for the maturing, who are then expected to be able to work and to be held responsible and accountable for the meat that they have ingested.

Accountable how? As it is written again, this time in Hebrews 5:14- to discern between good and evil.

Do not think for one moment that "meat" is hidden mystery for the truly spiritual- that is a temptation of the evil one, gnostic/elitist rubbish.

 

[bmeasure]

Nice explanation of Milk and Meat, OC. I've understood what it meant, but could never word it like you just did.....thanks. I've always thought of meat as something that has to be "chewed up". Sometimes if I don't fully understand something, I'll say playfully to people "let me gnaw on that a while".

 

[Squeakybro]

Abiyah you said
Squeakybro wrote:


I said
I will take that as your answer you dont know.


Squeker, from your interpretation of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, you have need of MEAT, that is for sure. For as Christ said "Ye shall know them by their fruits." I know you !

I said
Its obvious your in the milk. Or you would know that what you just said was carnal. Its also obvious you dont know the difference.

 

[bmeasure]

Squeaky, in all seriousness......I think you should sit down and have a T-bone steak dinner with a glass of milk, and read the Bible. Your posts are just getting out of control, man. If this is a joke, you may want to be careful how you treat the Word of God. If you are serious, you should find yourself a nice, Bible-based, God-fearing church and be in service as often as possible.

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
. Your posts are just getting out of control, man

I said
Well thats not much to work with. Could you go into alittle more detail. Did you get any verses against what i have said? Dont worry I can handle it.

 

[Free]

Could you go into alittle more detail. Did you get any verses against what i have said? Dont worry I can handle it.

Then why have you repeatedly ignored my pleas to reconcile what you stated with the Scriptures you were given that refute you?

 

[bmeasure]

you said
. Your posts are just getting out of control, man

I said
Well thats not much to work with. Could you go into alittle more detail. Did you get any verses against what i have said? Dont worry I can handle it.

Sure, but it would be quicker for you to just look at any of your other posts. You have brought up this topic on about 3/4 of your posts, if not more. It gets a little redundant to answer the same way on more than 5 or 6 posts.

Also, just for common knowledge, could you tell me a little about yourself Squeaky? It isn't a huge issue, but knowing your marital status, age, and how long you've been save would be nice to know. Also, what denomination (or faith) do you regularly call your home church? Do you tithe? It would help me understand where you are coming from a lot more. If you are interested I'll gladly give you the same in return.

 

[bmeasure]

Doh....man, this forum is really bad about double posting messages lately! What's going on?

 

[Squeakybro]

I am a 58 year old male. I started in the Word 25 years ago. I went through the three years of the milk understanding. I went through the 11 years of the meat understanding. I came to the revelations of Jesus Christ that Paul spoke of. I have received over 1500 of these revelations on any given subject so far. I have been sharing these revelations on the net for 11 years.

 

[Free]

Then how about asking for a revelation on the contradiction I pointed out? Why do you keep ignoring it?

 

[Squeakybro]

Free would you ask them again. I went back and looked and couldnt find any verses from you.

 

[Free]

This is all from the first page:

you [Orthodox Christian] said
I added the quote marks so you could see the unbroken statement from He who says He is first and last, and also says He is He who lives, and was dead, and is alive forevermore. Clearly, this is Jesus. Clearly, Jesus says He is first and last (protos kai eschatos), which is exactly the same as Alpha and Omega.

He said that He is God- just that simple.

I said
That is talking about Jesus and He is the first and the last of the new testament. God is the Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end of this world as we know it.
I notice you do alot of assuming with your understanding.

To which I replied:

Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Rev 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."

We can clearly see that Jesus refers to himself as "the Alpha and the Omega," just as God does in Rev 1:8.

 

[Rick W]

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

 

[Rick W]

Isa 41:20 That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.

Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

 

[Squeakybro]

Free do you know that when Jesus comes back He will come back as a God? Your looking at what He said after He was resurrected. The old testament was before Jesus even came to earth. The new testament is the life and teachings of Jesus as a man. I'm sorry but your mixing apples and oranges.
After God the Father brings Jesus back into the world Jesus will be a God to us. But God the Father hasnt done that yet.

Heb 1:6-8
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits and His ministers a flame of fire."
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
(NKJ)

 

[Free]

Free do you know that when Jesus comes back He will come back as a God?

No. He is God now and has always been God. Christianity is monotheistic, not polytheistic.

The new testament is the life and teachings of Jesus as a man.

I'll post a verse that has been posted already:

Phi 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Phi 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Phi 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

This passage clearly shows that Jesus existed as God prior to being "born in the likeness of men".

The passage in Heb 1 is a clear statement of Christ's deity, which you acknowledge. What you fail to see is that vss 10-13 show that God says Jesus "laid the foundations of the earth". What you are completely failing to see is that Jesus has always been God, as Heb 1 and numerous other biblical passages point out. One cannot become a god, one either is God or is not.

Your revelations contradict the clear teachings of Scripture and are therefore not of God. They are false teachings.

 

[Squeakybro]

You said
Your revelations contradict the clear teachings of Scripture and are therefore not of God. They are false teachings.

I said
Well I would have to agree one of us is deceived. Because what you say you see I dont see. Your logic makes no sense to me.
While on earth Jesus Himself said that the Father was the only true God.

John 17:1-3

1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)


Paul supported that idea when he said "yet for us there is one God the Father.
1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

So your conclusion has to be false.

 

[Free]

So your conclusion has to be false.

Why does my conclusion have to be false? What about yours? You continually ignore Scripture that several of us have given that clearly show that Jesus is God. You do not even attempt to give an explanation as to what these verses are saying.

Instead, all you do is give Scripture that appears to show the opposite. What you are doing is ignoring much of Scripture and clinging only to that which doesn't contradict your "revelations". However, you are still left with the contradiction which I initially pointed out: some of the NT clearly shows that Jesus is, and has always been, God while some of the NT appears to show that he is subordinate to the Father.

Jesus cannot be both God and not God. Orthodox Christianity accomodates both notions and provides a very reasonable and rational explanation. Your revelations do not; they are in error.

 

[Squeakybro]

Free you said

Why does my conclusion have to be false? What about yours? You continually ignore Scripture that several of us have given that clearly show that Jesus is God. You do not even attempt to give an explanation as to what these verses are saying.

Instead, all you do is give Scripture that appears to show the opposite. What you are doing is ignoring much of Scripture and clinging only to that which doesn't contradict your "revelations".

I said
Free what you give me is circumstantial verses which can go either way. What I give you are factual verses that cant go either way. I'm hopeing that if you have the Holy Spirit He will bare witness to the factual verses.

Jesus said there is only one true God the Father. Thats a fact.
John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

Paul said for us there is only one God the Father. Thats a fact.

1 Cor 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

They do over rule the circumstantial verses. If someone follows the Holy Spirit He will bare witness to this.

 

[Rick W]

The fact that Jesus called himself the Alpha and the Omega can hardly be dismissed as circumstantial.

Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

You said:
Christ is the first and the last
God is the Alpha and the Omega

Christ said:
He is both.