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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Jethro Bodine
Member
Jesus said anyone who "marries another commits adultery" (Luke 16:18 NASB).
If Jesus thought it was okay to have more than one wife it would not be adultery to 'marry another'.
If Jesus thought it was okay to have more than one wife it would not be adultery to 'marry another'.
NinaMMitchell
Member
I just want to say a couple of things. Felix, would you consider marrying another women in order to fulfill a desire of the flesh loving your wife the way Christ loves the church? I'm also curious to know if you think that you would have to fall in love with this woman on the side in order to marry her. Because if you don't love her, you wouldn't be fulfilling your role as a husband to love your wife. And if you do love her, then it's your first wife you would be falling down on the job with because intentionally allowing yourself to fall in love with another woman is far from loving your original wife the way Christ loves the church.
joethemechanic
Member
No man would need more than one wife if the women would just read Eph 5 and learn to obey and know their place
NinaMMitchell
Member
You couldn't have expected that comment to go over well, right? Men have a place too, and expecting your wife to do something that makes her uncomfortable just to make you happy is not very loving as a husband. Maybe men should learn THEIR place, and they might find that it's not as high as they think it is. Women aren't mindless robots that do whatever the husband says, and based on your comment, that's exactly what you want. I'm all for wives submitting to their husbands, but you're going to be hard pressed to find a woman that's won't voice her opinion first. And as a wise member of these forums has said, submission is not the same as obedience.
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felix
Guest
6 years.
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felix
Guest
If you carefully look at what Jesus said,
(Matt 19:7-9) They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" He said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery."
Jesus NEVER went against the law by saying not to divorce and He explains the law more clearly.
The issue is not divorcing. If a man divorces his wife apart from sexual immorality, it is not a sin, neither in the law nor in what Jesus said. However, the part of "adultery" comes ONLY when she "re-marriages" another man. Jesus also explains upon who that sin will be - i.e, the ex-husband causes her to commit adultery - referring that the ex-husband bears the guilt of her sin of adultery and anyone marrying her commits adultery - meaning the new husband bears the guilt of this sin upon himself.
While we truly have a verse that speaks about hardness of men for permitting divorce but, we don't have a similar verse for multiple wives.
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felix
Guest
I don't think the verse you quoted says what you say.
Luke 16:18 NASB
Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.
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felix
Guest
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felix
Guest
(1Pet 3:5-6) For in this manner, in former times, the holy women who trusted in God also adorned themselves, being submissive to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, whose daughters you are if you do good and are not afraid with any terror.
Who is that wise man who said "submission is not the same as obedience".
Based on Eph 5:22-33, Wife is compared to Church and Husband to Christ. To see if what you told is correct, let me replace wife with church and husband with Christ:
"Christ have a place too, and expecting His church to do something that makes her uncomfortable just to make Christ happy is not very loving as Christ. Maybe Christ should learn HIS place, and he might find that it's not as high as he think it is. Church aren't mindless robots that do whatever the Christ says, and based on your comment, that's exactly what you want. I'm all for churches submitting to Christ, but you're going to be hard pressed to find a church that's won't voice her opinion first. And as a wise member of these forums has said, submission is not the same as obedience.
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Danus
Member
Felix, unless your marriage was arranged I'm surprised your married. I say this based on what I've seen regarding your views on women. 
unless your just saying these things to bring up conversation, I have to assume you lean in the direction you speak of.
If that's the case, I'm sure you won't mind one of your daughters being part of some man's harem. Tell me, in your social construct, would you have to pay the man to take her or would he pay you for her? Which one of you would ask; "How much for the girl?"
It's true that God allowed polygamy, but that does not mean it was part of his design. The original plan was for one man and one woman to be joined as such. We this this in the scripture. In Matt. 19:4 Jesus says that God created one male and one female, and joined them in marriage. Here is Jesus addressing you. 4 “Haven’t you read,†he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.â€
Again, Mark 10:6-8:"But from the beginning of the creation, God 'made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh.
Do you see there where he says anything about one man and three, or four, or more women being one?
Men who say they should have multiple wives and that women should be kept in their place below men are not men, they are little boys. Punks, who know nothing about women in the first place. They don't care about women. women to them are just objects to be objectified, and most of all, men like this know nothing about real Love. Not one bit. They may say they do, but they don't really know the difference. For them Love is like; "I love ice cream".
It's pointless to describe to men like this what Love really is. It would be like trying to describe ice cream to someone who's never tried it, or the color blue to a blind man.
I sincerely hope that you are just bringing up a topic for discussion, because if you believe that multiple wives are OK, and this notion of polygamy is Christian to be endorsed by God as something perfectly OK and in line with his design, then that tells me where your heart is, and how you read the bible.
I Love my wife. My one wife. She is a part of me and I her. If she hurts, I hurt. I wished I'd know of her and this love long before I meet her, but I think God needed to show me a thing or two before, so that I would be prepared for her later.
We've been married 13 years. Be 14 in October. We have two girls. 'd do anything for her and those girls on loan to us from God. They are my only reason for being here at this point. My only reason for getting up in the morning.
God tells us that it is not good for man to be alone, so he created woman. One man and one woman, to be joined together as one. Marriage is a model for for Love and an opportunity for us to practice Love.
After the fall of man, it's true that God allowed polygamy. Why? Because man, lost and fallen, is stupid. Ignorant of Love. Lost in his own willful desire he see's nothing of God's will in that lost state.
God allows things like this today for lost men. He could stop and change every lost man right now if he wanted, but he allows them to do what they do for a time before they are ready to accept him, and some just never do.
My job as a father is to teach, and guide my daughters in God's way, in His mercy and forgiveness. I am helped by God in this task for his purpose, not mine. they may leave this house not accepting it, but they will know the difference, and if I've done that much I've at least given them the map. On that map is how to identify, find and love a real man, not just a boy.
unless your just saying these things to bring up conversation, I have to assume you lean in the direction you speak of. If that's the case, I'm sure you won't mind one of your daughters being part of some man's harem. Tell me, in your social construct, would you have to pay the man to take her or would he pay you for her? Which one of you would ask; "How much for the girl?"
It's true that God allowed polygamy, but that does not mean it was part of his design. The original plan was for one man and one woman to be joined as such. We this this in the scripture. In Matt. 19:4 Jesus says that God created one male and one female, and joined them in marriage. Here is Jesus addressing you. 4 “Haven’t you read,†he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.â€
Again, Mark 10:6-8:"But from the beginning of the creation, God 'made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh.
Do you see there where he says anything about one man and three, or four, or more women being one?
Men who say they should have multiple wives and that women should be kept in their place below men are not men, they are little boys. Punks, who know nothing about women in the first place. They don't care about women. women to them are just objects to be objectified, and most of all, men like this know nothing about real Love. Not one bit. They may say they do, but they don't really know the difference. For them Love is like; "I love ice cream".
It's pointless to describe to men like this what Love really is. It would be like trying to describe ice cream to someone who's never tried it, or the color blue to a blind man.
I sincerely hope that you are just bringing up a topic for discussion, because if you believe that multiple wives are OK, and this notion of polygamy is Christian to be endorsed by God as something perfectly OK and in line with his design, then that tells me where your heart is, and how you read the bible.
I Love my wife. My one wife. She is a part of me and I her. If she hurts, I hurt. I wished I'd know of her and this love long before I meet her, but I think God needed to show me a thing or two before, so that I would be prepared for her later.
We've been married 13 years. Be 14 in October. We have two girls. 'd do anything for her and those girls on loan to us from God. They are my only reason for being here at this point. My only reason for getting up in the morning.
God tells us that it is not good for man to be alone, so he created woman. One man and one woman, to be joined together as one. Marriage is a model for for Love and an opportunity for us to practice Love.
After the fall of man, it's true that God allowed polygamy. Why? Because man, lost and fallen, is stupid. Ignorant of Love. Lost in his own willful desire he see's nothing of God's will in that lost state.
God allows things like this today for lost men. He could stop and change every lost man right now if he wanted, but he allows them to do what they do for a time before they are ready to accept him, and some just never do.
My job as a father is to teach, and guide my daughters in God's way, in His mercy and forgiveness. I am helped by God in this task for his purpose, not mine. they may leave this house not accepting it, but they will know the difference, and if I've done that much I've at least given them the map. On that map is how to identify, find and love a real man, not just a boy.
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felix
Guest
- It is God who said and allowed man can have multiple wives in the law.
- It is God who said man should rule over woman in Genesis and did not allow women to rule over men in Isa 3:12 which are again repeated in letters from Paul.
God is not a little boy and neither I am here to discuss people's opinions but just Scripture.
You mean like Abraham, David and others who are lost by having multiple wives in OT times (as per you). Your statement must be backed by Scripture.
You speak about harem but you forgot that we aren't speaking about concubines or slaves but "wives".
Jethro Bodine
Member
Jesus said by marrying another woman I commit adultery...
18 “ Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery..." (Luke 16:18 NASB)
...not my wife (unless she remarries), but I commit adultery by marrying another. But you say I can marry another woman.
“ Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; 12 and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.” (Mark 10:11-12 NASB)
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felix
Guest
Again, why is that you never mention divorce but the verse clearly mentions it? We aren't speaking about divorcing the first and marrying another (just for clarification if you had misunderstood) but having another wife while the first is still a wife - just like Jacob with Leah and Rachael.
Danus
Member
I've no idea what your speaking about at this point, because I think you have a hidden agenda, that you are trying to communicate by hammering scripture to suit you.
All I know is you posted in the Parenting and Marriage section to say that God endorses polygamy, and that men are to rule over women. You feel strongly this way and you know it's not popular so your going to use the bible to try and "prove" you are correct by hammering scripture to forge your own will on it, while ignoring the heart felt common sense for God's word that should be very clear to anyone calling themselves Christian.
I'd rather you call yourself a Muslim. I could accept and respect more of what you say on the topic of women and marriage. Then it would make sense, but your endorsing polygamy and ruling over women as if you are superior to a women and God says your to be in charge of the woman, shows that you have little understanding of Scripture and it won't matter one bit what anyone points out, your going to be stuck right there in that, and unfit to teach what you preach, but that's OK. We need error I think, if only to see it for what it is.
It's for that reason, that I think the mod's should move your post and this thread to the A&T section where you can argue it there with scripture and feel validated by others fundamentalist who read bits and pieces of the bile that they like the most while ignoring the systematic theology of the whole bible .
I think this section is for people who care about Christian marriage and parenting and come here to ask real questions or make statements about it.
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felix
Guest
All I asked is for Scriptural reference from people who call themselves Christians and yet all i got back was personalized attack.
Since I have little understanding of Scripture, prove me wrong by using Scripture alone - not like the above post with zero Scripture reference and personalized attack tricks.
Does "your systematic theology of whole Bible" ignore any of God's own words which He spoke and instructed?
Danus
Member
Why, you've been given scripture and you stomp all over it because it does not fit the way you want it to. You ignore it, and you'll say others ignore what you say and the whole thing be comes a stupid exercise of loggerheads.
In the end you'll walk away saying; "Well I guess I proved what I thought." when in fact you've only solidified (I guess) what you already think. No one is going to walk down your path with you unless they just want to already., and that's why it needs to be in the A&T section.
It would be different if you where here asking for advice, saying; "Hey other Christians, I'm thinking about polygamy and can you direct me to scripture for some help?" But that's not your intent here. What you want to do is "prove" something and the irony is, you are doing that, but not in the way you'd hoped, and your wondering why you feel attacked.
I don't mind being the one getting rough with you, and I don't care if you don't appreciate it, because others here have sincerely tried to discuss what you brought up, and have lovingly done so I think, out of concern and correction, and all that seem to hit a brick wall for you, because you are going to correct others on an issue that you brought up.
That's why it's misplaced here in the parenting and marriage section. Your not here to ask a question, or discuss marriage and parenting, your here to argue theology according to you, it's not even a theology that mainstream Christianity agrees with you on, and you should know that. I suspect you do.
Honestly, I don't know what you believe and frankly I don't care, because what I know of it is not Christian to me, not because I say so, but because it does not harmonize with what the bible speaks to us about marriage and how to treat women. It's more than even out of tune or off key. It's twisted, and what makes it even more so is your use and interpretation of scripture to prove and justify your position.....it's like an evil clown; you know, where what is supposed to be pleasant, enjoyable and entertaining, is actually out to kill you......it's creepy.
NinaMMitchell
Member
To answer your first question, the person who said submission is not the same as obedience, I believe was Handy. But since she's a woman, I suppose you'll disregard that.
Second, maybe wives are supposed to submit to their husbands the way the church submits to Christ, but don't forget, the husband is not actually God. Men are just as likely to make mistakes as woman are (and believe it or not, it actually is possible for the wife to be the smarter or wiser party between the two people in the marriage) which is why wives SHOULD voice their opinions. I've gone to church my entire life, and not a single one of them has endorsed polygamy or taught that woman should be obedient and stay in their place. They've preached a loving marriage between ONE man and ONE woman, and they've preached wives submitting to their husbands when an agreement can't be reached. But I guess you're wiser than they are, right?
Oh yeah, and you conveniently didn't respond to the questions I addressed you with, and I'm really interested to know your answers.
NinaMMitchell
Member
So do I. particularly the last part about the clown.