Roman Catholic Church Catechism English Translation 1994

[Solo]

The following quotes are from The New Catholic Catechism by David W. Cloud

Have the members of the Roman Catholic Church been caught offguard or is this new catechism scriptural?

The Roman Catholic Church published a new Catechism in 1992 in Latin and the English translation was completed in 1994. The following excerpts demonstrate without question that the Roman Catholic Church is apostate and cursed of God. Bible-believing people are commanded by God to separate from those who preach a false gospel. Some counter that not all Roman Catholics believe the following false doctrines. That might be so, but the fact is that the following is the most recent and most official declaration of true Catholic belief in print. If a professed Catholic does not agree with the following dogmas, he should not claim to be a Roman Catholic, because this IS Roman Catholicism.

BIBLE INTERPRETATION THE SOLE RIGHT OF POPE AND BISHOPS

100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him.

MARY, SINLESS, PERPETUAL VIRGIN, MOTHER OF GOD, QUEEN OF HEAVEN, CO- REDEMPTRESS WITH CHRIST

491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854...

495 ... the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos).

508 From among the descendants of Eve, God chose the Virgin Mary to be the mother of his Son. "Full of grace," Mary is "the most excellent fruit of redemption" (SC 103): from the first instant of her conception, she was totally preserved from the stain of original sin and she remained pure from all personal sin throughout her life.

964 Mary's role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ's virginal conception up to his death"; it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion. ... enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother's heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her ...

966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son ..." The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection ... "In giving birth you kept your virginity... You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death" (Byzantine Liturgy, Troparion, Feast of the Dormition, August 15th.).

FULLNESS OF SALVATION ONLY THROUGH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."

846 Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation ... thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

ALL GRACE COMES THROUGH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

819 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."

834 Particular Churches are fully catholic through their communion with one of them, the Church of Rome "which presides in charity." "For with this church, by reason of its pre-eminence, the whole Church, that is the faithful everywhere, must necessarily be in accord" (St. Irenaeus, Adv. Haeres, 3,3,2:pg 7/1,849; cf. Vatican Council I: DS 3057).

SALVATION INCLUDES THE MUSLIMS

841 The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.

SALVATION THROUGH THE GOOD WORKS OF THE "SAINTS"

1475 In this wonderful exchange, the holiness of one profits others ... Thus recourse to the communion of saints lets the contrite sinner be more promptly and efficaciously purified of the punishments for sin.

1476 We also call these spiritual goods of the communion of saints the Church's treasury....

1477 This treasury includes as well the prayers and good works of the Blessed Virgin Mary. They are truly immense, unfathomable and even pristine in their value before God. In the treasury, too, are the prayers and good works of all the saints. ... In this way they attained their own salvation and at the same time cooperated in saving their brothers in the unity of the Mystical Body.

 

[Lewis]

I have done a lot of study on the Catholic Church from it's beginning to the present, and man do they do a lot of wrong stuff. Speaking of Catholics, has anybody read the story of sister Charlotte ? You really should, it's a kicker.

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/charlot1.htm

This site is loaded with stuff.
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/

 

[bibleberean]

The Catholic church is not a Christian church. It is completely apostate...

 

[Sleeker]

Roman Catholicism certainly is part of Christianity.

495 ... the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos).

Jesus is 100% divine. Mary is his mother. Hence, she is the Mother of God.

Ironically enough, my church is called the Immaculate Conception church.

FULLNESS OF SALVATION ONLY THROUGH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."

846 Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation ... thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

819 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."

834 Particular Churches are fully catholic through their communion with one of them, the Church of Rome "which presides in charity." "For with this church, by reason of its pre-eminence, the whole Church, that is the faithful everywhere, must necessarily be in accord" (St. Irenaeus, Adv. Haeres, 3,3,2:pg 7/1,849; cf. Vatican Council I: DS 3057).

That is very misleading. Roman Catholicism states that anybody that follows the church truthfully explicitly or implicitly can gain salvation and grace. That means people of any religion can get into heaven as long as they lead a good life.

Everything else is right, and I don't see why people have a problem with it.

 

[Lewis]

The Catholic church is not a Christian church. It is completely apostate...

Yeah the Catholic church, is apostate

Is Catholicism a false religion? Are Catholics saved? What I am posting below is from my website, it has been on the site from around November, so I can't remember where I got it from.

Lewis W

Question: "Is Catholicism a false religion? Are Catholics saved?"

Answer: We believe there are many problems with the Roman Catholic Church. It teaches many doctrines that are in disagreement with what the Bible says - worship of saints or Mary, prayer to saints or Mary, a pope, justification by faith plus works, infant baptism, transubstantiation, purgatory, etc. None of these teachings are at biblical. In fact, they all clearly contradict what the Bible declares. The most crucial of these is the Romans Catholic belief that faith in Christ alone is not enough to save a person. The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that a person must believe in Jesus Christ AND be baptized AND receive Catholic communion AND obey the decrees of the Roman Catholic Church AND etc., etc., etc. As a result, yes, Catholicism is a false religion in that if a person believes what the Catholic Church teaches, he will not be saved.



Are Catholics saved? This is a different issue. There are believers who attend Roman Catholic Churches. However, they are believers despite what the Catholic Church teaches, not because of what it teaches. To varying degrees, the Catholic church teaches the Bible and points people to Jesus Christ as the Savior. As a result, people are sometimes saved in Catholic churches (Isaiah 55:11). We would strongly advise believers in Christ who attend Roman Catholic churches to leave the Catholic church and instead attend a church which teaches the Word of God in all its truth.

Recommended Resource: Reasoning from the Scriptures with Catholics by Ron Rhodes.

 

[bibleberean]

Good post Lewis,

Can A Good Catholic be Saved?
by Dave Hunt


The following is from The Berean Call, April 1995:

QUESTION: My question is this: If a Roman Catholic believes wholeheartedly in the Lord Jesus Christ and is committed to serving Him as his Lord; and if he believes that the only way his sins can be forgiven is through Christ's death as atonement for those sins, and the believer's repentance, how come he is not saved? Suppose a person has salvation by faith alone, does he lose that salvation by believing in infant baptism? Does he lose his salvation by believing that communion Is really the body and blood of Christ, as the Lord said it was? Does he lose his salvation if he believes in purgatory? I will look forward to reading your answer in a future Issue of "The Call."

ANSWER: Anyone who believes the gospel, which is "the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth" (Rom. 1:16), is saved, whether he be called Catholic, Baptist, etc. If however a Roman Catholic "believes wholeheartedly in the Lord Jesus Christ," as you suggest, then he would find himself in great conflict with the doctrines and practices of his Church. IT IS LOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR A ROMAN CATHOLIC TO TRULY BELIEVE THE GOSPEL THAT SAVES AND AT THE SAME TIME TO BELIEVE THE TENETS OF CATHOLICISM.

Let me ask you how a person can believe that Christ's sacrifice on the cross for our sins is an accomplished fact of history and that He is now at the Father's right hand in heaven in a resurrected, glorified body and at the same time believe that He exists bodily as a wafer on Catholic altars where He is perpetually suffering the agonies of the cross and being literally "immolated in the sacrifice of the Mass" (Vatican II, Flannery, pp. 102-3)?

How can a person believe that Christ's redemptive work on the cross is "Finished!" as He himself said (Jn. 19:30)--and at the same time believe that the Mass is a perpetuation of Christ's sacrifice?

How can one "perpetuate and make present" any past event? It is logically impossible. One may remember or memorialize a past event, but one cannot perpetuate it in the present. And why would that be necessary inasmuch as Christ's death and resurrection fully accomplished God's purpose?

Let me ask you how any person can believe that Christ does not offer Himself repeatedly, as were the Old Testament sacrifices (Heb. 9:25,10:1-3), but that "once... hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself ... Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many" (9:26,28), 'this man [Christ], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God .... For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified .... there is no more offering for sin" (10:12-18)--and at the same time believe that the mass is a "propitiatory sacrifice" that takes away sin and that in it "the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1367)?

How can one believe, as Vatican II states, that through Catholic liturgy, "especially in the divine sacrifice of the Eucharist, the work of our redemption is accomplished [i.e., is an ongoing process]" (Flannery, p. 1)--and at the same time believe that the work of

our redemption was accomplished once for all by Christ on the cross, as so many Scriptures clearly state (Heb. 9:12; Eph. 1:7; Col. 1:14, etc.)?

How can one believe that by simple faith in Christ one receives eternal life and the assurance of heaven as a free gift of God's grace, as the gospel that saves declare--and at the same time believe that God's grace and the merits of Christ (plus the merits of Mary and the saints--who needs them if Christ is sufficient?!) are contained in a treasury which the Roman Catholic Church possesses and from which she dispenses in installments bits and pieces of this grace (Vatican II, Flannery, p. 66, etc.) for attending mass, saying the rosary, penance, etc.?

A Catholic can't believe in Christ alone but [is required by the doctrines of his own church to believe] in Christ plus baptism and the sacraments and other helps given by the Church.

Paul cursed the Judaizers who taught that in addition to faith in Christ's finished work one also must keep the Jewish law. That destroys the gospel. How, then, can one believe in the gospel of Christ plus baptism for salvation and the mass as a propitiatory sacrifice and the other "sacraments of the New Law" which Trent and Vatican II say are essential for salvation, the necessity of the Church and its priesthood, the intercession of Mary, purgatory, indulgences, etc.?

You must believe one gospel or the other; you can't believe two contradictory gospels at the same time.

Whoever believes in Christ alone, is saved. Whoever believes in Christ plus anything else for salvation, is lost. He has rejected the gospel of Christ which alone saves those who believe it (Rom. 1:16). And, indeed, those who preach this "other gospel" come under Paul's anathema (Gal. 1:6-8)!

(The Berean Call, April 1995)

 

[Lewis]

Learn all you need to know about the Catholics here.
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/#rc

 

[Lewis]

Are Catholic beliefs and practices Biblical?

Question: "Are Catholic beliefs and practices Biblical?"

This is also from the forum section of my website.
http://www.revelation21.net/index.shtml


Answer: The issue concerning any church and its practices is “Is this scriptural?†(2 Timothy 3:16-17; Isaiah 8:20; note that Jesus defended truth with the phrase “It is written...â€Â). If a teaching is scriptural (taken in context), it should be embraced. If it is not, it should be rejected. As one who is a father now, I will one day (by God’s grace) be able to look at my lineage (children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc.). I will give me greater delight if they are doing God’s will than if they merely have my genes. Likewise, God is a whole lot more interested in whether someone is doing His will than whether they can trace their “lineage†back to Christ’s time (Matthew 12:48-50). Jesus is very concerned that we do not change our focus from the word of God to following the traditions of men (Mark 7:7). How then does the Word of God compare with the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church (RCC)? Let’s look at a few issues:



Salvation: The RCC teaches that one is saved by baptismal regeneration and remains saved unless they commit a sinful act that removes them from the state of sanctifying grace (theft of a large amount, failure to attend church and receive the Eucharist for an extended period of time, etc.). The Bible teaches that we are saved by grace which is received through simple faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). And that good works are the result of a change of the heart wrought in salvation (Ephesians 2:10; 2 Corinthians 5:17) and the fruit of that new life in Christ (John 15).



Eternal Security: The RCC teaches that one CANNOT know for certain that he is saved and on his way to heaven. 1 John 5:13 states that the letter of 1 John was written just so that one would know for certain that he is saved.



Good Works: The RCC states that we are saved by works (baptismal regeneration) and that we maintain our salvation by good works (receiving communion, church attendance, saying confession, etc.). The Bible states that we are saved apart from works, by grace through faith, and totally apart from works (Titus 3:5; Ephesians 2:8-9; Galatians 3:10-11; Romans 3:19-24).



Baptism: In the New Testament baptism is ALWAYS practices after one places their faith in Christ and is not a means of salvation; it is faith in the gospel that saves (1 Corinthians 1:14-18; Romans 10:13-17). But the RCC teaches baptismal regeneration of infants, a practice never found in Scripture. Note: The RCC sometimes notes that the whole household of Cornelius was baptized in Acts 16:33. But you will note how Paul answered the question of how a person is saved in Acts 16:31 and then note that Paul spoke to all of the household in verse 32 and the whole household was believing (verse 34). Thus, this passage only supports the baptism of those who have already believed, not of infants.



Prayer: The RCC teaches its members to not only pray to God but also to Mary and to the saints. The RCC goes so far as to state that all prayers must ultimately go through Mary before they get to God! (See the appendix for this statement in their words). Contrary to this, we are only taught in Scripture to pray to God (Matthew 6:9; Luke 18:1-7; etc.).



Priesthood: The RCC teaches that there is a distinction between the clergy and the “lay people.†Whereas the New Testament teaches the priesthood of all believers (1 Peter 2:9).



Sacraments: The RCC teaches that we receive grace when we receive the sacraments of the church. But such teaching is nowhere found in Scripture.



Confession: The RCC teaches that unless we are hindered from doing so by some means beyond our control, the only way to have our sins forgiven is by confessing them to a priest. Contrary to this, scripture teaches that we can confess our sins to God for forgiveness (1 John 1:9) and to also confess our sins one to another so that we can be strengthened in our battle against sin (James 5:16). The RCC uses certain statements of Christ to His disciples to support their practice. See the appendix concerning these statements.



Mary: The RCC teaches, among other things that Mary is the Queen of Heaven, a perpetual virgin, and the co-redemptress who ascended into heaven. Whereas in Scripture, she is portrayed as an obedient, believing servant of God, who became the mother of Jesus. None of the other attributes mentioned by the RCC are given to her in scripture and the idea of her being the co-redemptress and another mediator between God and man are not only extra-biblical (found only outside of scripture) but are also unbiblical (contrary to scripture) (Acts 4:12; 1 Timothy 2:5).



Eucharist: The question here is whether or not to take Christ’s words “this is my body†literally. As a former Catholic, I too once held to the belief that the bread and wine were actually changed into Christ’s body and blood but upon the examination of the context of those statements believe that it is not changed but is a memorial service alone. Again, I encourage you to read on in the appendix for further information.



Looking at church history, you find that there was a group called the Anabaptists who were around before Luther’s lead in the Protestant movement. It is the contention of many that there have always been those who have separated from “the church†because of its refusal to order itself according to the Bible. Sometimes those who separate are wrong, teaching heresy. But sometimes it is not those who remain in the church who are right but those who are thrown out (3 John 9-11)! Paul says that we are to separate from those who walk in error (2 Corinthians 6:14-1Cool, either the error of ungodly living (1 Corinthians 5; 2 Thessalonians 3:6) or the error of ungodly teaching (1 Timothy 6:3-5; 2 Timothy 3:5; Acts 20:29-30; Romans 16:17). And it is the scripture that is to be the means of us choosing the right path to salvation (Acts 20:31-32; 2 Timothy 3:15).



What does Scripture say (Romans 4:3; Galatians 4:30; Acts 17:10)? That is to be our guideline. “So now, brethren, I commend you to God and to the ord of His grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified†(Acts 20:32 NKJV).

 

[bibleberean]

Learn all you need to know about the Catholics here.
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/#rc

That site has some very good articles showing the error of the RCC.

 

[Sleeker]

Let's have a copy and paste fiesta... :roll:

Sorry, but I'm not going to go to that website as well, unless you talk about specific points on it (without copying and pasting a whole novel).

Yeah the Catholic church, is apostate

No, it isn't.

Is Catholicism a false religion?

Nope.

Are Catholics saved?

Yup.

Salvation: The RCC teaches that one is saved by baptismal regeneration and remains saved unless they commit a sinful act that removes them from the state of sanctifying grace (theft of a large amount, failure to attend church and receive the Eucharist for an extended period of time, etc.). The Bible teaches that we are saved by grace which is received through simple faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). And that good works are the result of a change of the heart wrought in salvation (Ephesians 2:10; 2 Corinthians 5:17) and the fruit of that new life in Christ (John 15).

Wrong again! For trying to show that the Catholic Church is so wrong, you'd expect the people to actually know a little about it first. Faith and good works are needed, and faith brings about the works naturally.

It teaches many doctrines that are in disagreement with what the Bible says - worship of saints or Mary, prayer to saints or Mary, a pope, justification by faith plus works, infant baptism, transubstantiation, purgatory, etc.

They are in accoradance with the Bible.

The most crucial of these is the Romans Catholic belief that faith in Christ alone is not enough to save a person. The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that a person must believe in Jesus Christ AND be baptized AND receive Catholic communion AND obey the decrees of the Roman Catholic Church AND etc., etc., etc. As a result, yes, Catholicism is a false religion in that if a person believes what the Catholic Church teaches, he will not be saved.

Wrong. In order to be saved, you must have faith in God (whether you know it or not) and do good works. Any true Christian at heart that has faith will automatically do good works.

Are Catholics saved? This is a different issue. There are believers who attend Roman Catholic Churches. However, they are believers despite what the Catholic Church teaches, not because of what it teaches. To varying degrees, the Catholic church teaches the Bible and points people to Jesus Christ as the Savior. As a result, people are sometimes saved in Catholic churches (Isaiah 55:11). We would strongly advise believers in Christ who attend Roman Catholic churches to leave the Catholic church and instead attend a church which teaches the Word of God in all its truth.

Why only "sometimes saved"? According to Protestants, you only need faith in Jesus to be saved. We have faith (it's the cornerstone of the denomination), so why are we only "sometimes saved" according to you?

If however a Roman Catholic "believes wholeheartedly in the Lord Jesus Christ," as you suggest, then he would find himself in great conflict with the doctrines and practices of his Church. IT IS LOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR A ROMAN CATHOLIC TO TRULY BELIEVE THE GOSPEL THAT SAVES AND AT THE SAME TIME TO BELIEVE THE TENETS OF CATHOLICISM.

Untrue.

How can one "perpetuate and make present" any past event? It is logically impossible.

Apparently, this person doesn't believe in God's powers, which is strange for a Christian. :roll:

A Catholic can't believe in Christ alone but [is required by the doctrines of his own church to believe] in Christ plus baptism and the sacraments and other helps given by the Church.

Wrong! Faith and works is all that is needed, and faith naturally brings about good works.

Prayer: The RCC teaches its members to not only pray to God but also to Mary and to the saints. The RCC goes so far as to state that all prayers must ultimately go through Mary before they get to God! (See the appendix for this statement in their words). Contrary to this, we are only taught in Scripture to pray to God (Matthew 6:9; Luke 18:1-7; etc.).

Revelation 5:8 says we can pray to saints.

Salvation by works:

" "Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 7:21).

"One came up to him, saying, `Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?' And Jesus replied 'If you would enter life, keep the commandments'" (Matt. 19:16-17).

"He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him" (John 14:21).

"But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed. For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by perseverance in good works seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury" (Rom. 2:2-8).

"You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love" (Gal. 5:4-6).

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God--not because of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:8-10).

"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Phil. 2:12-13).

"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, `Go in peace, be warmed and filled,' without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. But some one will say, `You have faith and I have works.' Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe--and shudder. Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, and the scripture was fulfilled which says, `Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness'; and he was called the friend of God. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (Jas. 2:14-24)." -- Source

 

[Solo]

If the works are works of man to reach God then they are works that will burn up as wood, hay, and stubble.

If the works are works of the Father established in a believer's life then the they are works as precious stones and will last for eternity.

If one who is NOT born again as Jesus taught does what he/she thinks is good works, they are for naught. This individual will be cast into outer darkness for eternity.

If one who IS born again as Jesus taught, then the works of God the Father will eminate from the believer as he submits to the holy Spirit which dwells within him/her.

Works come after one becomes a believer. Works does not a believer make.

 

[Sleeker]

Like I said before, faith in God and Jesus, whether implicit or explicity, naturally brings forth good works. It doesn't really matter that Protestants say, "just faith," for that faith will bring good works out. It doesn't matter that Catholics say, "faith and works," for one brings about the other.

 

[stray bullet]

I have done a lot of study on the Catholic Church from it's beginning to the present, and man do they do a lot of wrong stuff. Speaking of Catholics, has anybody read the story of sister Charlotte ? You really should, it's a kicker.

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/charlot1.htm

This site is loaded with stuff.
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/

That site does an excellent job of misrepresenting Catholicism.

Why not actually have a real discuss about Catholicism instead of pointing to sites like that?

 

[stray bullet]

BIBLE INTERPRETATION THE SOLE RIGHT OF POPE AND BISHOPS

The bible itself is not infallible, it is inerrant. There are a million different ways of interpreting the bible, that's why there are thousands of denominations and disagreement even within the denominations and their churches as well.

Christ appointed apostles to lead Christianity and provide clear teaching for us. While the Catholic Church promotes reading the bible, the final authority in interpreting scripture rests not in the hands of regular Christians, because we obviously can not clearly interpret it, but in the hands of the apostles themselves. We know that the Bishops and Popes of the Catholic Church are indeed the successors of the original 12 apostles. In fact, we even see this succession Acts Chapter 1 when Matthias replaced Judas and was 'numbered with the apostles'.

Christ gave these men the ability and authority to clearly teach matters of faith.

MARY, SINLESS, PERPETUAL VIRGIN, MOTHER OF GOD, QUEEN OF HEAVEN, CO- REDEMPTRESS WITH CHRIST

Mary was indeed sinless. Do you believe God would put His Child in the hands of someone under the influence of Satan?
Mary is a co-redeemer, but so are we all. This is an often misunderstood word. Christ redeemed mankind, but mankind can not redeem itself unless it has faith in Christ. By our acceptance of Christ, we each are individually saved and save, redeem, part of humanity, even if only ourselves. By sharing the faith and helping save others, we also help redeem others.
Mary, by her submission to God's will and giving birth to Jesus, did help redeem mankind. Although it was Christ's sacrifice that ultimately redeemed.

SALVATION INCLUDES THE MUSLIMS

No, salvation can include the Muslims and others. Christ's blood can help save those who aren't Christian by no fault of their own.

SALVATION THROUGH THE GOOD WORKS OF THE "SAINTS"

That's just flat out false. Salvation comes only though God by the sacrifice of Christ. The saints have no power on their own to save anyone.

 

[Solo]

BIBLE INTERPRETATION THE SOLE RIGHT OF POPE AND BISHOPS

The bible itself is not infallible, it is inerrant. There are a million different ways of interpreting the bible, that's why there are thousands of denominations and disagreement even within the denominations and their churches as well.

Christ appointed apostles to lead Christianity and provide clear teaching for us. While the Catholic Church promotes reading the bible, the final authority in interpreting scripture rests not in the hands of regular Christians, because we obviously can not clearly interpret it, but in the hands of the apostles themselves. We know that the Bishops and Popes of the Catholic Church are indeed the successors of the original 12 apostles. In fact, we even see this succession Acts Chapter 1 when Matthias replaced Judas and was 'numbered with the apostles'.

Christ gave these men the ability and authority to clearly teach matters of faith.

Then you need to keep obeying your RC cardinals, bishops, priests, etc. since they have the holy Spirit to teach them while you don't.

29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. Acts 5:29-32

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth F6 all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:13-16

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:12-17



[quote:a9050]
MARY, SINLESS, PERPETUAL VIRGIN, MOTHER OF GOD, QUEEN OF HEAVEN, CO- REDEMPTRESS WITH CHRIST

Mary was indeed sinless. Do you believe God would put His Child in the hands of someone under the influence of Satan?
Mary is a co-redeemer, but so are we all. This is an often misunderstood word. Christ redeemed mankind, but mankind can not redeem itself unless it has faith in Christ. By our acceptance of Christ, we each are individually saved and save, redeem, part of humanity, even if only ourselves. By sharing the faith and helping save others, we also help redeem others.
Mary, by her submission to God's will and giving birth to Jesus, did help redeem mankind. Although it was Christ's sacrifice that ultimately redeemed.
No where does the Bible say that Mary is sinless. Only one is sinless and that is Jesus. RC have a tendancy to place Mary on equal ground with Jesus. They are wrong.

God places the holy Spirit inside every sinful believer on this earth.

SALVATION INCLUDES THE MUSLIMS

No, salvation can include the Muslims and others. Christ's blood can help save those who aren't Christian by no fault of their own.
No one will be saved apart from being born of the Spirit as Jesus taught Nicodemas. Unless Muslims, Roman Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, repent and are born of the Spirit of God, they will burn in the lake of fire.

SALVATION THROUGH THE GOOD WORKS OF THE "SAINTS"

That's just flat out false. Salvation comes only though God by the sacrifice of Christ. The saints have no power on their own to save anyone.
The Roman Catholics have much wrong in their latest Catechism. Perhaps you can direct the pope to reanalyze his position of political/religious power and declare that all mankind can become saved by repentance of their rebelliousness toward God and belief that Jesus died for mankind's penalty for sin. Jesus is our advocate to the Father according the the Word of God, not Mary, not the pope, not Jerry Farwell, not any pastor. Each individual is accountable for his own soul.[/quote:a9050]

 

[stray bullet]

Then you need to keep obeying your RC cardinals, bishops, priests, etc. since they have the holy Spirit to teach them while you don't.

You do not have the apostolic authority given to the apostles by Christ to teach. They, however, do.

No where does the Bible say that Mary is sinless. Only one is sinless and that is Jesus. RC have a tendancy to place Mary on equal ground with Jesus. They are wrong.

God places the holy Spirit inside every sinful believer on this earth.

No where in the bible does it say Mary sinned either. In fact, the bible says she was "full of grace". How is it that she is *full* of grace if she was just a mere sinner? Impossible. She was full of grace because she was without sin, saved from original sin by God through the upcoming sacrifice of her Son.

No Catholic puts Mary on equal ground with Jesus. Doing so is seriously wrong. I have never met a Catholic that thought Mary and Jesus were equals.

No one will be saved apart from being born of the Spirit as Jesus taught Nicodemas. Unless Muslims, Roman Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, repent and are born of the Spirit of God, they will burn in the lake of fire.

The idea that one is punished for ignorance is a pretty cruel idea. Just as Paul taught the law enabled an understanding of sin, so I believe, does a knowledge enable an understanding of the need for repentance. Gentiles were outside the law, so are non-Christians outside the understanding of the Gospel. They can be saved by their ignorance of the need to repent.

The Roman Catholics have much wrong in their latest Catechism. Perhaps you can direct the pope to reanalyze his position of political/religious power and declare that all mankind can become saved by repentance of their rebelliousness toward God and belief that Jesus died for mankind's penalty for sin. Jesus is our advocate to the Father according the the Word of God, not Mary, not the pope, not Jerry Farwell, not any pastor. Each individual is accountable for his own soul.

Comments such as that make me realize your understanding of Catholicism is based on hate literature, not an actual understanding of the Church and its teachings. The Church teaches that Christ died for our sins and only by His death and resurrection are we saved. The Pope, nor Mary, by their own power do not have the means to save anyone.

Why is it that you listen to the words of the apostles and hold them as the word of God, yet you reject the words of other apostles? What you are doing is like reading the Gospel of Matthew and rejecting the Gospel of Luke. To reject the Pope is no less than rejecting the Apostle Peter, for both are given authority to teach by Christ, both are apostles. Jerry Farwell is no apostle and neither are you.

 

[Sleeker]

Good! Another Catholic here. :-D Better yet, he knows his stuff.

Solo, why are you so hostile to Roman Catholics? We are being very polite to you, and we have never yet bashed the beliefs of Protestants. We accept your religion as Christian, just not the best denomination of Christianity.

 

[stray bullet]

Good! Another Catholic here. :-D Better yet, he knows his stuff.

Solo, why are you so hostile to Roman Catholics? We are being very polite to you, and we have never yet bashed the beliefs of Protestants. We accept your religion as Christian, just not the best denomination of Christianity.

If I might make one suggestion, don't use their term "Roman Catholic". That's a term invented to take away the universality of the Church. We may be Latin Catholics, Ukrainian Catholics, Melkite Catholics, but we were all Catholics collectively

 

[stray bullet]

Good! Another Catholic here. :-D Better yet, he knows his stuff.

Solo, why are you so hostile to Roman Catholics? We are being very polite to you, and we have never yet bashed the beliefs of Protestants. We accept your religion as Christian, just not the best denomination of Christianity.

If I might make one suggestion, don't use their term "Roman Catholic". That's a term invented to take away the universality of the Church. We may be Latin Catholics, Ukrainian Catholics, Melkite Catholics, but we were all Catholics collectively

 

[stray bullet]

Good! Another Catholic here. :-D Better yet, he knows his stuff.

Solo, why are you so hostile to Roman Catholics? We are being very polite to you, and we have never yet bashed the beliefs of Protestants. We accept your religion as Christian, just not the best denomination of Christianity.

If I might make one suggestion, don't use their term "Roman Catholic". That's a term invented to take away the universality of the Church. We may be Latin Catholics, Ukrainian Catholics, Melkite Catholics, but we were all Catholics collectively