What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Romans 5:12-14 … Christus Victor or Penal Substitution?

justbyfaith said:
It has always been the true gospel of Jesus by which only we are saved.
Click to expand...

No it hasn't and you provide no evidence for your claim.
justbyfaith said:
I don't think that I was insulting you, friend.
Click to expand...
But you did
justbyfaith said:
Try 1 John 2:2 and / or 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
Click to expand...
Nothing about penal substitution there.

justbyfaith said:
See 1 Corinthians 1:18,21. Because nonsense = foolishness.
Click to expand...
Nothing about penal substitution there.

justbyfaith said:
And you seem intent on disagreeing.
Click to expand...

II disagree because you are wrong.

justbyfaith said:
Why don't you pray to the Lord that if such a scripture exists, He will show it to you and open your eyes to its meaning?
Because I can think of a few, but I think that your eyes might be blinded to being able to discern the meaning of them and you might not be able to see that they truly teach it; because you are starting with the intention of denying it as a doctrine.
Click to expand...

Face it - you don't have any scriptures to prove penal substitution.

justbyfaith said:
But that there is no forgiveness apart from Jesus' suffering on the Cross.
Click to expand...

I agree, but forgiveness is not penal substitution.

justbyfaith said:
I fear that the man is a false teacher and that reading his book may have cost you your soul.
Click to expand...
In your opinion.

justbyfaith said:
The punishment for sin is eternal damnation for finite human beings.

Jesus, being the infinite God, can suffer and die for all of us and come out unscathed on the other side of death.
Click to expand...
In your opinion.

justbyfaith said:
Simply incorrect; and a belief that will cost you your soul if you persist in it.
Click to expand...

I've given you plenty of scripyures tht prove you wrong.
justbyfaith said:
Christ always had favour from God.
Click to expand...

Favours for us - forgiveness.
 
justbyfaith said:
Mungo, I don't mean to insult you, but I don't think that your heart is presently open to the truth.
Click to expand...

But you do
justbyfaith said:
So, I think it is expedient for me to obey Matthew 7:6 at this juncture and to try not to speak to you any further.

I will pray for you, though; you can count on that!

Let me just say that I believe Matthew 7:6 to be saying that we ought not to present treasures of scripture knowledge to people who aren't open to the truth; because they will not see those treasures as being treasure and may even try to kill the messenger.
Click to expand...

So you compare me to dogs and swine.
But you say you don't insult me.
 
Mungo said:
So you compare me to dogs and swine.
But you say you don't insult me.
Click to expand...
No. I told you the meaning of Matthew 7:6 apart from Jesus' mention of dogs and swine. Jesus was using an analogy to say something important...that it is simply not wise to try to present the truth to people who aren't open to it in their hearts.
 
justbyfaith said:
No. I told you the meaning of Matthew 7:6 apart from Jesus' mention of dogs and swine. Jesus was using an analogy to say something important...that it is simply not wise to try to present the truth to people who aren't open to it in their hearts.
Click to expand...

You see, suggesting that I am not open to the truth is insulting.

You are not presenting truth, just your opinions.
 
Here is a suggestion.
When you find some scripture that proves penal substitution we can continue with this discussion.
 
Mungo said:
Perhaps you should pray and ask God to guide you to some scripture that proves penal substitution.
Click to expand...
I have enough scripture to satisfy my own need for proof.

I just don't think that you would be able to see what I see...

Because tbhwy, I don't think your heart is open to the doctrine in question...

Even though it is the truth.
 
justbyfaith said:
I have enough scripture to satisfy my own need for proof.

I just don't think that you would be able to see what I see...

Because tbhwy, I don't think your heart is open to the doctrine in question...

Even though it is the truth.
Click to expand...

If you had any scriptures then why don't you provide them?
Silence just means you don't have any.
 
Mungo said:
If you had any scriptures then why don't you provide them?
Silence just means you don't have any.
Click to expand...
Nope. It just means that I'm not going to cast my pearls in front of you; because you wouldn't appreciate that they are treasure, and may even begin to come against me at some point (according to Matthew 7:6).
 
Mungo said:
Then discontinue it.

Goodbye :wave
Click to expand...
Okay.

I will be praying for you.

For it is written,

2Co 10:3 (nlt), We are human, but we don’t wage war as humans do.
2Co 10:4, We use God’s mighty weapons, not worldly weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments.
2Co 10:5, We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.
 
I would suggest that you ask the Lord to show you the pertinent scriptures and their meaning in your regular devotional time.

What can it hurt?
 
It is written,

Jhn 5:39 (nlt), You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!
Jhn 5:40, Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top