Rushed into Marriage by the Church

[highlife]

So being allowed concubines in ot and now it's sin is an inconsistency

 

[theLords]

I probably would have been a roman officer or engineer so that's all that has to be said for that as far as being stoned. Jesus said it was not that way in the beginning last time I checked we are still not in the beginning and Jesus said he did not come to change the law so all that stuff still holds true

highlife, your sin is blinding you. (2 Corinthians 4:4) "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

You can make snippy comments about being a Roman officer or engineer, but you are simply refusing to recognize the truth of what is being said. You keep referring back to the validity of the Law of Moses, okay, so then, if you, highlife and mrs. highlife, were living together without first getting married and having sex, both of you, under Mosaic Law, would have been stoned to death for your sexual immorality. Are you able to understand that?

The "beginning" is clearly in reference to Genesis. We are not in the beginning, in fact we are living in the end times, which is why the New Testament extols us to keep watch for the return of Christ. (Genesis 1:1) "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (John 1:1-2) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law:

(Matthew 5:17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

(Ephesians 2:14-16, NLT) For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united Jews and Gentiles into one people when, in his own body on the cross, he broke down the wall of hostility that separated us. He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups. Together as one body, Christ reconciled both groups to God by means of his death on the cross, and our hostility toward each other was put to death.

The New Testament has this to say about the Law of Moses:

(James 2:10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Do you want to continue to live under the Law of Moses? Or do you want to enter in the New Covenant of Grace through Christ Jesus?

 

[theLords]

So being allowed concubines in ot and now it's sin is an inconsistency

Concubines were not God's plan from the beginning. Our example is Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is in a monogamous relationship with His (ONE) Bride the Church. He does not have any need of concubines, why do you?

 

[highlife]

So what were concubines and why wouldent you be stoned for having a coqubone. It's a lagit confusion of mine because the onus is much greater now than divorce and coqubone rules then but Jesus said his yolk is light?

The marriage and divorce rules used in modern church are very burdunsome lots of things just don't add up if you use modern church inturpretation

 

[handy]

Jesus did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. He did so, and died and now the Old Covenant, with it's laws has passed. The New Covenant is now in effect and we now have something superior to words carved in stone...we have the Holy Spirit.

However, the Holy Spirit and His convictions can be quenched when one allows ungodly desires to rule them. And, if that happens, it becomes very clear that it is indeed terrifying to be in the hands of a truly living God...not an idol of our own construct.

If you care to study these biblical truths for yourself, look up Hebrews chapters 8-10.

It's true, there were things in the Law that was not that way from the beginning. From the beginning, God established one man, one wife. Adam had no concubines, no sex slaves, and his marriage was established by God Himself. However, also in the beginning...in Genesis, long before the Law, once Adam and Eve fulfilled God's command to multiply, and their children became tribes and tribes became nations, there came into being legal recognition of marriage...and other sexual relationships that were not marriage at all. Sarah was a wife. Hagar was not.

theLords is correct that your relationship in the Old Testament would not have been tolerated. One part of legal Old Testament marriage involved the bride's father and mother keeping the bloodied sheets of the marriage consummation. This was in case the husband ever decided to falsely charge his wife of not being a virgin. If such happened, the father could then take the bloodied sheets to the elders as proof of her virginity upon marriage. Again...there were definite legalities associated with marriage in the OT, not just 'living together.'

 

[handy]

So what were concubines and why wouldent you be stoned for having a coqubone

Why are you asking, highlife? Looking for a concubine or sex slave, maybe?

Or just trying to deflect this conversation from the real issue...that of couples living together without being legally married.

I'll make a deal for you...I'll be happy to answer your question regarding concubines, if you show me one...only one example of any CHRISTIAN man in the bible having a concubine.

 

[highlife]

The roman thing was not snippy it illustrates that I would not be stoned with out a fair number of stoners being killed by my sword then we would see how commited they were to the stoning

 

[handy]

So what were concubines and why wouldent you be stoned for having a coqubone. It's a lagit confusion of mine because the onus is much greater now than divorce and coqubone rules then but Jesus said his yolk is light?

The marriage and divorce rules used in modern church are very burdunsome lots of things just don't add up if you use modern church inturpretation

Divorce should have no...NO place...in the Christian church. That the Church is now tolerating divorce is because the Church making allowances for sin, just as Moses did. Jesus stated emphatically that God HATES divorce.

As for marriage...in what way are "marriage rules" in the church in any way burdensome. It's no burden to be legally married...simply go down to the registrar's office, fill out the paper work, follow through on any specifics within particular states, pay a nominal fee, and it's a done deal. How is that burdensome?

It's only burdensome if someone wants to wait in order to save up for a hugely expensive wedding. Weddings don't have to be expensive...my sister got married in a park and then we all went back to my folk's house for some cake and good wishes.

There is no burden concerning marriage within the church now.

 

[highlife]

King David was a man of god

Why are you asking, highlife? Looking for a concubine or sex slave, maybe?

Or just trying to deflect this conversation from the real issue...that of couples living together without being legally married.

I'll make a deal for you...I'll be happy to answer your question regarding concubines, if you show me one...only one example of any CHRISTIAN man in the bible having a concubine.

 

[theLords]

So what were concubines and why wouldent you be stoned for having a coqubone. It's a lagit confusion of mine because the onus is much greater now than divorce and coqubone rules then but Jesus said his yolk is light?

Concubines were nothing more than "lesser wives" with no legal rights to the inheritance of their husbands. They were servants.

You sexual "passion" has been a heavy burden for you. You are not alone, highlife, it has been a heavy burden on many men, and has caused them to sin. Once, you are able to recognize that sex outside of marriage is sin, then you will be able to get control of your flesh. Jesus cannot carry your burden and replace it with His "light yolk" until you are able to recognize that sex outside of marriage is a sin. Does that make sense?

The marriage and divorce rules used in modern church are very burdunsome lots of things just don't add up if you use modern church inturpretation

No, you are wrong. The mandates set up by the 'modern' Church concerning marriage and divorce are strictly Biblical.

Why is it that many, many Christians are able to abide by the commands of God? Does your lack of self-control, negate the fact that many Christians have self-control? Why is it that many don't get divorced because times get tough or that they refrain from having sex outside of marriage?

Why are you seeking an easy life? We are not called to live it up, easy, with no burdens. We are called to live holy lives. Being molded into the image of Christ is sometimes painful. But, would you rather enter heaven missing an eye, hand, or leg, then for your whole body to go to hell?

highlife, please, seriously examine your heart and ask God to convict you of sin. You are grasping at straws.

 

[handy]

The roman thing was not snippy it illustrates that I would not be stoned with out a fair number of stoners being killed by my sword then we would see how commited they were to the stoning

I have to laugh and am glad for a somewhat lighter moment in this most serious conversation:

highlife, if you were a Roman back then...then no need to worry about the Jewish laws at all...they would never have applied to you anyway.

 

[theLords]

The roman thing was not snippy it illustrates that I would not be stoned with out a fair number of stoners being killed by my sword then we would see how commited they were to the stoning

Your comments are dubiously snippy, and they continue to be with this comment above.

This has nothing to do with you murdering the stoners before they could stone you. You are referring over and over again to the OT Law, and if you were to be judged by God according to the OT Law, you would have been stoned? Do you somehow find that amusing?

 

[handy]

King David was a man of god

King David was certainly a man after God's own heart...flaws and all. And a man of faith in the One true God, to be sure.

But, King David was a Jew, who lived and died under the Old Covenant.

Not a Christian under the New Covenant.

Look to the New Testament...

 

[highlife]

There is a place for divorce when one spouses sin is too much for the other to bare unfortunately once the innocent spouse has reached that point they have to change churches and the more they share with the congregation the worse the burden could be

 

[highlife]

I probably just have to re dig into the bible again some more I do like taking steps to make my life easier probably a reason I became an engineer I am a bit inherently lazy the whole let's make our life hard on purpose thing I just can't do I revert right back to logic and trying to make things easier maybe we were in rebellion but I had zero conviction over it and could not reconcile the ot and nt why should king David have 300 wives but I have to give up 8 of prime sex time it did not wash so I did not feel bad at all and the pastor could not prove to me the piece of paper was a strict biblical mandate and if I can't prove it then I can't condemn others

 

[handy]

There is a place for divorce when one spouses sin is too much for the other to bare unfortunately once the innocent spouse has reached that point they have to change churches and the more they share with the congregation the worse the burden could be

No...however I must amend what I said before...adultery, sexual immorality, is permitted for divorce within the Church.

Also, if a believer has an unbelieving spouse, and the spouse wants out of the marriage, the believer can then be divorced. If the spouse wants to stay in the marriage...then the believer must stay.

These are the only reasons for divorce in the New Covenant. Of course, the Church has compromised on divorce for many years...the result being that the Church is now battling a gamut of sexual immoralities being justified...not the least of which is living together prior to marriage.

I'm curious highlife, as to your testimony and your religious back ground. You seem fairly uneducated as far as the Bible is concerned...(not speaking to your intelligence overall which seems better than the average bear's! ;))

 

[theLords]

There is a place for divorce when one spouses sin is too much for the other to bare unfortunately once the innocent spouse has reached that point they have to change churches and the more they share with the congregation the worse the burden could be

No, highlife, there is no such place for divorce when the relationship gets to be too much to bear. Divorcing under such circumstances is sin, and nothing less. There is no such thing as an "innocent spouse" in these cases. Both, spouses are at fault. Once for sinning and the other for tempting that spouse to sin.

I probably just have to re dig into the bible again some more I do like taking steps to make my life easier probably a reason I became an engineer I am a bit inherently lazy the whole let's make our life hard on purpose thing I just can't do I revert right back to logic and trying to make things easier

highlife, I'm sorry to break it to you, but you are not a follower of Jesus Christ. You are a follower of the 'god' of this age. You are in bondage to your flesh and sin. But, don't despair, there is redemption, hope, and salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ. All you need to do is ask.

It's not about making your life hard on purpose, it's about allowing tough situations and difficult circumstances, to mold us into the image of Christ.

 

[handy]

I probably just have to re dig into the bible again some more I do like taking steps to make my life easier probably a reason I became an engineer I am a bit inherently lazy the whole let's make our life hard on purpose thing I just can't do I revert right back to logic and trying to make things easier

You know...Jesus said it right, His burden is indeed light. It's more often when we try to do thing our way that things get so tangled up.

I think of my own life...I was single until I was 38 and remained a virgin throughout all that time. One might say that was a heavy burden...but, when I see the women who struggle with broken relationships, unplanned pregnancies, single motherhood...I came into my marriage completely "baggage free". My husband did as well. The years of loneliness and yes, even sexual frustration, were hard...but our marriage is very solid and relatively burden free.

And, digging into the Bible is always a good idea!!!

 

[theLords]

maybe we were in rebellion but I had zero conviction over it and could not reconcile the ot and nt why should king David have 300 wives but I have to give up 8 of prime sex time it did not wash so I did not feel bad at all and the pastor could not prove to me the piece of paper was a strict biblical mandate

I appreciate your honesty. Do you know why you couldn't find conviction? (1 Timothy 4:1-2) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

You valued your own lust, more than you revered or loved your Holy God, and He wept over you and your wife's sin. And, when He convicts you and helps you to come into an understanding of the horrid-ness of your sin, it will be you two that are sobbing tears of deep repentance. And, that's okay, because you will be restored to Him, and be able to warn others like you, of the dangerous and sinful road they are on committing fornication.

 

[handy]

highlife, again I do wonder what your testimony is...why you consider yourself a Christian?

The fact that you had 0 conviction over living a sinful lifestyle can only mean that you either have quenched the Spirit, or that you truly are not a Christian in the first place.