Salvation - gift or reward or both?

[PeterJens]

Cause and effect.
Belief in Jesus means we will be saved.

Condition is faith, reward is salvation.

But faith is a gift given by God, a revelation to our hearts.

Some hate the word earnt so much they deny faith leads to salvation. Their hatred is so deep they cannot answer this question because it breaks their theology even though they know we are righteous because we believe.

Spiritual realities are hard, except Jesus is all in all, our rock and our defender. When all stand before Him better they know the truth now and repent than break and are destroyed at judgement.

God bless you

 

[PeterJens]

I did not expect this silence from the reformed and easy believism group, but they lie about their foundation, and we assume they believe the cause and effect relationship. Turns out they do not because it implies a condition, an earning, which they hate.

By implication they are saved without choice or faith, which is heresy.

I am reformed in many ways, except faith is our life and a gift from God. And faith is salvation, is our heart, our daily prayer, our daily reality. God bless you.

 

[PeterJens]

Indoctrination - imagine you are speaking to a liar who is faking their position but appears shinny white. Your tactic is to show they sin as much as you, by sinning and winding them up.

A verse says God will complete the good work in you that he began.

Sadly the good work has not begun, simply because there is no faith in there is a real good work at all.

Salvation to these lost folk is only a gift because there is nothing else they have but failure, and no belief God does and is changing them.

Only the lost would think sinning will prove the gospel is true, such a lie only comes from the enemy.

 

[JLB]

I did not expect this silence from the reformed and easy believism group, but they lie about their foundation, and we assume they believe the cause and effect relationship. Turns out they do not because it implies a condition, an earning, which they hate.

By implication they are saved without choice or faith, which is heresy.

I am reformed in many ways, except faith is our life and a gift from God. And faith is salvation, is our heart, our daily prayer, our daily reality. God bless you.

The condition of eternal life is to believe.

The idea of unconditional election for salvation is a unbiblical myth.

To understand the biblical meaning of the word believe, a person only has to read the scriptures to determine that believe carries the meaning of obey, as we can see in the following scriptures.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9



The person must perform the action of believing and therefore obeying the Lord, in order to be saved.


This concept flies in direct opposition to the Calvinist narrative that God unconditionally elects some for salvation while unconditionally electing others for eternal damnation.



JLB

 

[PeterJens]

The condition of eternal life is to believe.

The idea of unconditional election for salvation is a unbiblical myth.

To understand the biblical meaning of the word believe, a person only has to read the scriptures to determine that believe carries the meaning of obey, as we can see in the following scriptures.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9



The person must perform the action of believing and therefore obeying the Lord, in order to be saved.


This concept flies in direct opposition to the Calvinist narrative that God unconditionally elects some for salvation while unconditionally electing others for eternal damnation.



JLB

It was these calvinists who were silent.
What appeared illustrative was they could not agree cause belief, effect salvation.

This is such an obvious connection throughout the christian church and theology, I was surprised how they reacted. The idea of a condition, an action of man as part of salvation to them is so wrong it must be evil.

It shows love and participation have passed them by, dogmatic security is there foundation.

 

[JLB]

It was these calvinists who were silent.
What appeared illustrative was they could not agree cause belief, effect salvation.

This is such an obvious connection throughout the christian church and theology, I was surprised how they reacted. The idea of a condition, an action of man as part of salvation to them is so wrong it must be evil.

It shows love and participation have passed them by, dogmatic security is there foundation.

It’s the way of covenant relationship.

It’s the way of marriage.



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

What does it matter what a man teaches if it does not line up with the full context of scripture. It only makes them lacking Spiritual knowledge preaching another gospel for which all who will believe them be without excuse before the Lord on the day of judgement. There are two doctrines being one of Christ and theories of man as one of these doctrines are enmity against God.

God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.

The word Faith is the Greek word PISTIS and was translated "faith" 239 times. It was also translated "believe" 1537 times. Faith is not only the conviction of God in our lives, it is the trust that we have in Him; that He is who He says He is, and will do what He has promised in our lives. We, through faith, begin to live our lives according to His Word. If we do not apply what we believe to our lives, we do not have faith in what we believe.

Salvation means to be whole mind, body and soul as we surrender our will to God and allow his will to work in our lives by applying Gods word to every aspect of our lives. This allows us to know the mind of Christ and all the promises of God for our own well being so we can face anything that tries to come against us while here on this earth so we can triumph and be victorious through the grace and mercy of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus. Grace pardons us and mercy loves us unconditionally.

 

[Knotical]

Considering that none of us have earned salvation, much less deserve it, in any way then you must assume that we could never be "awarded" salvation. We are saved by GRACE through faith. Grace is when we are given something we do not deserve, which means we have not earned it, therefore, it cannot be awarded to us. Salvation is not a participation trophy.

 

[Who Me]

Not a very gracious series of post.

If faith is a gift from God, then the result of that faith is not a reward but is also a gift.
Eph2:8+9.
Also if salvation is whole the work of Jesus. That is he felt with sin, unrighteousness, guilt etc and gave his righteousness, innocence etc then it is a gift.

How one view salvation boils down to does ones view glorify God or man.
Is it all of God or is man able to boast about his contribution?

 

[PeterJens]

Considering that none of us have earned salvation, much less deserve it, in any way then you must assume that we could never be "awarded" salvation. We are saved by GRACE through faith. Grace is when we are given something we do not deserve, which means we have not earned it, therefore, it cannot be awarded to us. Salvation is not a participation trophy.

I know this feeling. But there is something deeper that is missed. Man was made in God's image to walk with Him. Every person has this sense yet sin breaks us, binds us.

Jesus died because He wanted us with Him. Washed, cleansed and changed, but still us. And we need to do something, no matter how small, it is up to us. It is why Jesus spent 3 years with the disciples, so they knew what a friend Jesus is. But we must respond, we must take ownership, we must walk, we must repent and believe. This is no small thing it is all of us on the altar.
And the reward is Jesus, is the walk, is life eternal, is endless joy and praise.
Theology can stop the kingdom in our hearts like anything else. We need Jesus and we need to ask confess repent and believe.

 

[JLB]

Considering that none of us have earned salvation, much less deserve it, in any way then you must assume that we could never be "awarded" salvation. We are saved by GRACE through faith. Grace is when we are given something we do not deserve, which means we have not earned it, therefore, it cannot be awarded to us. Salvation is not a participation trophy.

Grace is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28-29


Grace is the God given, unmerited ability to do what we can not do, on our own without it.

The Spirit of grace empowers us to walk in the trut, to walk in love, to walk in righteousness; to walk according to the Spirit, in which we are led by the Spirit.


For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Romans 8:13-14




JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

It's when we submit to Christ surrendering our will to know the will of the Father is when we pick up our cross and follow after Him.

How do we do this? Read the rest of the chapter.

 

[PeterJens]

Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

It's when we submit to Christ surrendering our will to know the will of the Father is when we pick up our cross and follow after Him.

How do we do this? Read the rest of the chapter.

I get the feeling from some is they think we do things, so it must be wrong.
What they do not realise is through walking in obedience, God makes us into different people, moulds us and changes us. These very actions, intentions, desires, hopes and fears belong to the Kingdom, not to this world.

It is like exercise. If we constantly use a muscle it gets stronger. The world is so close to truth, the right way, the way of love, yet drip by drip, cynicism, hurt, pain, bitterness, envy, hatred, loathing, unforgiveness, jealousy, creep in and cloud the soul until hurting others is our best reaction, people fear to come to close, we lash out, thorns and thistles are our badge, and they wonder where this nice person has gone.

So in the Kingdom acts of love, acts of faith, acts of forgiveness and grace start to cleanse, purify and build a child of God. The blood of Christ starts to minister to our consciences, we see people bound to their past, their failures and successes incapable of movement, yet still breathing. As freedom takes root, so our ministry increases, our words grow, our actions pour forth, our reactions become a blessing and people start to want us to be there, and not disappear. Truth seems to arrive when we do, and peace, the peace that passes understanding as Gods Holy presence in us is made manifest. God bless you

 

[Prycejosh1987]

Belief in Jesus means we will be saved.

Condition is faith, reward is salvation.

But faith is a gift given by God, a revelation to our hearts.

It depends on lifestyle. Belief alone is not sufficient because muslims believe in Jesus. Jews believe in Jesus as a teacher, Its all about lifestyle most importantly and showing the belief.