SALVATION IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

[GodsGrace]

This is a simple thread:

How does the Catholic Church understand salvation?

1. How is a person "saved" in the CC? I'd like to say that this expression was not used years ago, at least not that I know of, and within the laity.
It is used today.

2. How would you explain the difference between Justification and Sanctification?

If you post from the CCC, could you please also use your own words? (which I believe you do anyway).


This might clear up some misunderstandings that Protestants have as to salvation in other churches/denominations.

I hope some also speak of what their understanding is so that it could be cleared up. (Protestants).

 

[Mungo]

This is a simple thread:

How does the Catholic Church understand salvation?

1. How is a person "saved" in the CC? I'd like to say that this expression was not used years ago, at least not that I know of, and within the laity.
It is used today.

2. How would you explain the difference between Justification and Sanctification?

If you post from the CCC, could you please also use your own words? (which I believe you do anyway).


This might clear up some misunderstandings that Protestants have as to salvation in other churches/denominations.

I hope some also speak of what their understanding is so that it could be cleared up. (Protestants).

A good topic.
At the risk of over-simplifying I'll try to keep my initial comments simple.
We can go into the complications later if necessary.

Regarding the theology of salvation (soteriology) Protestants and Catholics differ widely on this but use the same terminology with different meanings.

In general Protestantism has a legalistic and extrinsic view whereas Catholicism has a grace based and intrinsic view (though differing on the nature of grace).

Salvation has four aspects - Sanctification, Redemption, Forgiveness, and Justification, though For Catholics sanctification and justification are virtually synonymous and occur together.

Each has a past, present and future dimension.

The Council of Trent, in session 6, went into great detail on the topic of Justification.
Justification is both and event and a process so Catholics refer to Initial Justification (an event) and Progressive Justification (a process - or perhaps better a series of events) leading to Final Justification (an event) when we enter heaven.

Initial Justification is effected by (water) baptism.

 

[JLB]

This is a simple thread:

How does the Catholic Church understand salvation?

1. How is a person "saved" in the CC? I'd like to say that this expression was not used years ago, at least not that I know of, and within the laity.
It is used today.

2. How would you explain the difference between Justification and Sanctification?

If you post from the CCC, could you please also use your own words? (which I believe you do anyway).


This might clear up some misunderstandings that Protestants have as to salvation in other churches/denominations.

I hope some also speak of what their understanding is so that it could be cleared up. (Protestants).

There is no such thing as a Catholic or Protestant in the kingdom of God. Those are just man made labels that are designed to divide the Church.


The is only one way to receive eternal salvation.

One.

It's by obeying Jesus Christ.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Hebrews 5:9

There's not a Catholic way or a Protestant way.

There is only Jesus' way.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6




JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

There is no such thing as a Catholic or Protestant in the kingdom of God. Those are just man made labels that are designed to divide the Church.


The is only one way to receive eternal salvation.

One.

It's by obeying Jesus Christ.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Hebrews 5:9

There's not a Catholic way or a Protestant way.

There is only Jesus' way.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6


JLB

I agree.
Anyone in any denomination could belong the the Church of God, the Body of Christ, the Kingdom.

I'll state that salvation is the same for everyone.

They have to be born of the Spirit.
IOW it has to be acknowledged that God exists

The person must follow the rules of Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace]

A good topic.
At the risk of over-simplifying I'll try to keep my initial comments simple.
We can go into the complications later if necessary.

Regarding the theology of salvation (soteriology) Protestants and Catholics differ widely on this but use the same terminology with different meanings.

In general Protestantism has a legalistic and extrinsic view whereas Catholicism has a grace based and intrinsic view (though differing on the nature of grace).

Salvation has four aspects - Sanctification, Redemption, Forgiveness, and Justification, though For Catholics sanctification and justification are virtually synonymous and occur together.

Each has a past, present and future dimension.

The Council of Trent, in session 6, went into great detail on the topic of Justification.
Justification is both and event and a process so Catholics refer to Initial Justification (an event) and Progressive Justification (a process - or perhaps better a series of events) leading to Final Justification (an event) when we enter heaven.

Initial Justification is effected by (water) baptism.

Please explain justification.

 

[JLB]

I'll state that salvation is the same for everyone.

They have to be born of the Spirit.

Amen!!!

 

[evenifigoalone]

A good topic.
At the risk of over-simplifying I'll try to keep my initial comments simple.
We can go into the complications later if necessary.

Regarding the theology of salvation (soteriology) Protestants and Catholics differ widely on this but use the same terminology with different meanings.

In general Protestantism has a legalistic and extrinsic view whereas Catholicism has a grace based and intrinsic view (though differing on the nature of grace).

Salvation has four aspects - Sanctification, Redemption, Forgiveness, and Justification, though For Catholics sanctification and justification are virtually synonymous and occur together.

Each has a past, present and future dimension.

The Council of Trent, in session 6, went into great detail on the topic of Justification.
Justification is both and event and a process so Catholics refer to Initial Justification (an event) and Progressive Justification (a process - or perhaps better a series of events) leading to Final Justification (an event) when we enter heaven.

Initial Justification is effected by (water) baptism.

So I know that Catholics are definitely not believing OSAS (once saved always saved). I guess my question is..... do they view salvation as "more good deeds than bad deeds means you go to heaven", or something else?
And, how do they reconcile Jesus' sacrifice being "enough" to get us to heaven with it? Are they like "you have to do all the Good Catholicy things to see heaven", or are those things just considered as aids that help us stay in salvation?


Genuine questions btw, I'm not trying to argue against Catholicism like others may be.

 

[GodsGrace]

So I know that Catholics are definitely not believing OSAS (once saved always saved). I guess my question is..... do they view salvation as "more good deeds than bad deeds means you go to heaven", or something else?
And, how do they reconcile Jesus' sacrifice being "enough" to get us to heaven with it? Are they like "you have to do all the Good Catholicy things to see heaven", or are those things just considered as aids that help us stay in salvation?


Genuine questions btw, I'm not trying to argue against Catholicism like others may be.

Great questions!

 

[WIP]

I guess my question is..... do they view salvation as "more good deeds than bad deeds means you go to heaven", or something else?

Not believing in OSAS doctrine does not equate to believing what you posted above. That is one of the misconceptions of those that follow the OSAS doctrine.

Here's how I see it and I think the Catholic church may see it very similarly. One that has placed his/her trust in the Lord, Jesus, has no desire to do anything that is not worthy of that loyalty, trust, belief, love..... Therefore, they will strive to follow His commands as best they can, always. Not just when it suits them but always. When Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep my commandments," (John 14:15 NKJV) was more than just a commandment. It was also a fact. If we love Him, we will keep His commandments as witness of that love.

Will we succeed 100%? No, but that is why we so much need Him, our Savior. He knows and understands that we will make mistakes but as we abide in His love with humble hearts, we have His promise of forgiveness (1 John 1:9).

 

[evenifigoalone]

Not believing in OSAS doctrine does not equate to believing what you posted above. That is one of the misconceptions of those that follow the OSAS doctrine.

Here's how I see it and I think the Catholic church may see it very similarly. One that has placed his/her trust in the Lord, Jesus, has no desire to do anything that is not worthy of that loyalty, trust, belief, love..... Therefore, they will strive to follow His commands as best they can, always. Not just when it suits them but always. When Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep my commandments," (John 14:15 NKJV) was more than just a commandment. It was also a fact. If we love Him, we will keep His commandments as witness of that love.

Will we succeed 100%? No, but that is why we so much need Him, our Savior. He knows and understands that we will make mistakes but as we abide in His love with humble hearts, we have His promise of forgiveness (1 John 1:9).

My question was more based on wondering if they teach that following the sacraments is necessary for salvation.

 

[GodsGrace]

My question was more based on wondering if they teach that following the sacraments is necessary for salvation.

Sacraments are not necessary for salvation except for baptism.
And even that could be described better, but not now, I don't think it's necessary.

Sacraments are understood to be a VISIBLE way for God to demonstrate His love for us.
It's a way for Him to give us grace. Which we really need. It's called a sign from God.
A visible sign.

Although Jesus mentioned 2 specific sacraments: Baptism and Marriage, the CC believes in 7 sacraments:
Baptism
Confirmation
Communion
Reconciliation
Sacrament of Healing
Holy Orders
Matrimony

I can see a biblical reference to each one...

 

[Mungo]

Please explain justification.

From the Catholic Dictionary
"The process of a sinner becoming justified or made right with God. As defined by the Council of Trent, "Justification is the change from the condition in which a person is born as a child of the first Adam into a state of grace and adoption among the children of God through the Second Adam, Jesus Christ our Savior" (Denzinger 1524). On the negative side, justification is a true removal of sin, and not merely having one's sins ignored or no longer held against the sinner by God. On the positive side it is the supernatural sanctification and renewal of a person who thus becomes holy and pleasing to God and an heir of heaven.|"

 

[Mungo]

So I know that Catholics are definitely not believing OSAS (once saved always saved). I guess my question is..... do they view salvation as "more good deeds than bad deeds means you go to heaven", or something else?
And, how do they reconcile Jesus' sacrifice being "enough" to get us to heaven with it? Are they like "you have to do all the Good Catholicy things to see heaven", or are those things just considered as aids that help us stay in salvation?


Genuine questions btw, I'm not trying to argue against Catholicism like others may be.

1. God is holy and perfect, and He tells us to be holy and perfect as he is holy and perfect.
“…but as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct; since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy." (1Pet 1:15-16)

“You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” (Mt 5:48)

2. Unless we are clean (holy and perfect) we will not enter heaven for a life of communion with God.
“But nothing unclean will enter it” [The new Jerusalem – Heaven] (Rev 21:27)

3. Unless we are holy we will not see God.
“Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12;14)

4. We are urged to become pure and holy, without blemish
“But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace.” (2Pet 3:13-14)

“[Jesus Christ] who gave himself for us to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good deeds.” (Ti 2:14)

But don't get me wrong here. The work of becoming pure and holy is not our work, but the work of Christ and the Holy Spirit. But we have to co-operate.

Grace is free (Eph 2:8) but that doesn’t mean that we have no part to play in receiving grace.
Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God. (Rom 5:1-2).

We have been given access to grace.
Working together with him, then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain. (2Cor 6:1).
We have not only to access grace but we have to accept it.

 

[Cooper]

I agree.
Anyone in any denomination could belong the the Church of God, the Body of Christ, the Kingdom.

I'll state that salvation is the same for everyone.

They have to be born of the Spirit.
IOW it has to be acknowledged that God exists

The person must follow the rules of Jesus.

It is more about accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, rather than following any rules.

 

[Cooper]

So I know that Catholics are definitely not believing OSAS (once saved always saved). I guess my question is..... do they view salvation as "more good deeds than bad deeds means you go to heaven", or something else?
And, how do they reconcile Jesus' sacrifice being "enough" to get us to heaven with it? Are they like "you have to do all the Good Catholicy things to see heaven", or are those things just considered as aids that help us stay in salvation?


Genuine questions btw, I'm not trying to argue against Catholicism like others may be.

Living a good life does not save, it is more about accepting the Saviour into your heart and life and following him always.

 

[Cooper]

Sacraments are not necessary for salvation except for baptism.
And even that could be described better, but not now, I don't think it's necessary.

Sacraments are understood to be a VISIBLE way for God to demonstrate His love for us.
It's a way for Him to give us grace. Which we really need. It's called a sign from God.
A visible sign.

Although Jesus mentioned 2 specific sacraments: Baptism and Marriage, the CC believes in 7 sacraments:
Baptism
Confirmation
Communion
Reconciliation
Sacrament of Healing
Holy Orders
Matrimony

I can see a biblical reference to each one...

When I take the sacraments, I am simply doing as Jesus said, which was to "do this in remembrance of me." Only a believer would do this, so that person has already committed their life to Jesus.

 

[jaybo]

Not believing in OSAS doctrine does not equate to believing what you posted above. That is one of the misconceptions of those that follow the OSAS doctrine.

Here's how I see it and I think the Catholic church may see it very similarly. One that has placed his/her trust in the Lord, Jesus, has no desire to do anything that is not worthy of that loyalty, trust, belief, love..... Therefore, they will strive to follow His commands as best they can, always. Not just when it suits them but always. When Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep my commandments," (John 14:15 NKJV) was more than just a commandment. It was also a fact. If we love Him, we will keep His commandments as witness of that love.

Will we succeed 100%? No, but that is why we so much need Him, our Savior. He knows and understands that we will make mistakes but as we abide in His love with humble hearts, we have His promise of forgiveness (1 John 1:9).

Great post!

 

[GodsGrace]

From the Catholic Dictionary
"The process of a sinner becoming justified or made right with God. As defined by the Council of Trent, "Justification is the change from the condition in which a person is born as a child of the first Adam into a state of grace and adoption among the children of God through the Second Adam, Jesus Christ our Savior" (Denzinger 1524). On the negative side, justification is a true removal of sin, and not merely having one's sins ignored or no longer held against the sinner by God. On the positive side it is the supernatural sanctification and renewal of a person who thus becomes holy and pleasing to God and an heir of heaven.|"

This is a very big difference.
Justification and Sanctification are understood differently the Catholics and Protestants.
One of the major differences is just plainly how we call each...

To Catholics it's called Justification and means exactly the same as Protestants understand it.

Then we have the split.

Catholics call the next step ongoing-justification.
Protestants call the next step Sanctification.

But it means exactly the same.

The difference MIGHT BE that Protestants think of Sanctification as ongoing throughout one's life - and whose life should be getting better and better in pleasing God and obeying God.

Catholics state that Sanctification is immediate and not another stage.

What does this mean?
If a Catholic loses sanctification through a sin...he also is no longer justified.
If a Protestant loses sanctification, it is a lapse but he still retains his justification (salvation).

 

[Mungo]

This is a very big difference.
Justification and Sanctification are understood differently the Catholics and Protestants.
One of the major differences is just plainly how we call each...

To Catholics it's called Justification and means exactly the same as Protestants understand it.

Then we have the split.

Catholics call the next step ongoing-justification.
Protestants call the next step Sanctification.

But it means exactly the same.

The difference MIGHT BE that Protestants think of Sanctification as ongoing throughout one's life - and whose life should be getting better and better in pleasing God and obeying God.

Catholics state that Sanctification is immediate and not another stage.

What does this mean?
If a Catholic loses sanctification through a sin...he also is no longer justified.
If a Protestant loses sanctification, it is a lapse but he still retains his justification (salvation).

One difference between Catholic and Protestants is that Protestants tend to think in all or nothing terms.
Catholics think in terms of growth (and I suppose decline).
Mortal sin totally breaks our relationship with God and total loss of grace.
But venial sin damages our relationship with God and we lose some grace from our souls.
(We see santifying grace as a quality of the soul).

Another important difference (as I understand it) is that Protestants tend to see this in legal and behavioural terms whilst Catholic thinking is in real terms. So when we are justified we are made righteous. Protestants see this in legal and behaviousral terms but in Catholic thinking righteousness is a real quality of the soul. It can grow and decline. Thus justification can grow and decline.

Regarding Sanctification, think of it as holiness. We can grow in holiness and become less holy.

It's a complicated subject. I think what I have written is correct Catholic thinking but I may not have got it quite right.

 

[jaybo]

One difference between Catholic and Protestants is that Protestants tend to think in all or nothing terms.
Catholics think in terms of growth (and I suppose decline).
Mortal sin totally breaks our relationship with God and total loss of grace.
But venial sin damages our relationship with God and we lose some grace from our souls.
(We see santifying grace as a quality of the soul).

Another important difference (as I understand it) is that Protestants tend to see this in legal and behavioural terms whilst Catholic thinking is in real terms. So when we are justified we are made righteous. Protestants see this in legal and behaviousral terms but in Catholic thinking righteousness is a real quality of the soul. It can grow and decline. Thus justification can grow and decline.

Regarding Sanctification, think of it as holiness. We can grow in holiness and become less holy.

It's a complicated subject. I think what I have written is correct Catholic thinking but I may not have got it quite right.

You don't have it right! There is nothing in the Bible about mortal sin and venial sin. Those are manufactured, unScriptural terms.