What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Bible Study Salvation through sanctification

Does God’s plan of salvation include sanctification?

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 100.0%

  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    6
Wrg1405 said:
Why would you say that?
Click to expand...
“And unto the Angel of the Church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the Creation of God; I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot: I would you were cold or hot. So then because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue you out of My mouth. Because you say, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that you are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked (Rev. 3:14-17).

Jesus sent a Message to each of the seven Churches of Asia; of these, Laodicea was the last. This particular Church constitutes the conclusion of the Church Age, and represents the time in which we now live. In other words, the modern Church is the Laodicean Church, and the Laodicean Church is the modern Church. Unfortunately, the Message given by Christ is not very positive.

The Laodicean Church is actually an apostatized Church, which means that it has departed from the Truth. It is neither “cold” nor “hot,” but rather “lukewarm.” As a result, Jesus said, “I will vomit you out of My mouth.” And thus is the modern Church!

The Seventeenth Verse, sadly and regrettably, describes the modern Church to the proverbial “T”. In not only the United States, but also over the balance of the entire world, the modern Church has never been richer, at least regarding material things. It is “increased with goods,” which again speaks of material things, but definitely not spiritual things. In the modern Church, “faith” has been reduced to “things,” instead of what the correct object ought to be, which is the Cross of Christ. The modern Church basically claims that “it has need of nothing.” It is lukewarm, rich, increased with goods, and sees no need for anything else.

But what did Jesus say with respect to the answer of the Laodicean Church?

He described this Church, first of all, as “wretched.” The word in the Greek refers to a test that has been given, and the one taking the test has failed.

Second, Christ called this Church “miserable.” It means “to be pitied.”

Third, He referred to it as “poor,” meaning that it literally was, at least in His eyes, a spiritual beggar.

Fourth, He called it “blind.” The word, as used here, actually means “to be lifted up in pride.”

Fifth, and last of all, He described it as “naked.” It refers to being spiritually naked.

So, as is obvious, Jesus’ summation of the Laodicean Church was not very positive. Considering that this Church characterizes the modern Church, i.e., refers to what the Church is presently, the situation is dire indeed!

At the beginning of John’s Vision, Christ is pictured as standing in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks, which represent, as stated, the Church. Now, He is no longer in the midst of the Churches, but rather is standing outside, knocking at the door, and saying, “If any man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me” (3:20).

The essence of that particular invitation shows that the Lord is no longer dealing with the institutionalized Church as a whole, but rather is dealing with individuals. While He has always dealt with individuals, now He is dealing only with individuals. This shows that the Church has completely apostatized, except for the Remnant who truly love the Lord (Rom. 9:27).“

— Donnie Swaggart (taken from the “Word for Every Day”)
Donnie Swaggart
 
iLOVE said:
He described this Church, first of all, as “wretched.” The word in the Greek refers to a test that has been given, and the one taking the test has failed.
Click to expand...
Does this apply to
Romans 7:24
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
 
Wrg1405 said:
Does this apply to
Romans 7:24
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
Click to expand...
Yes! Any Believer who attempts to live for God outside of god's Prescribed Order, which is "Jesus Christ and Him Crucified," will, in fact, live a wretched and miserable existence. This life can only be lived in one way, and that way is the Cross.

Luke 9:23 - And He said to them all, If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.

Denial of self is recognizing my moral and spiritual poverty; for I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing (Romans 7:18). It is knowing and understanding that I am unable to serve God in my own will power, self-will, strength, ability, and power. We see this in the first three "Beatitudes."

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:3

Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Matthew 5:4

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5

Take up his cross is seen in Matthew 5:6; Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

I am filled by God's provisions (GRACE) found in Christ by placing my Faith exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified (Believing who Jesus is, and what Jesus has done). Therefore I receive all the benefits of this "Resurrection Life" by understanding that we have been planted together [Christ and ourselves] in the likeness of His Death [Romans 6:5, Psalm 103:2].

Romans 8:13, Zechariah 4:6 - Without Jesus you can do nothing (John 15:5)!!!!!

Without the knowledge of the Cross for sanctification, you will die (spiritually).

The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

JSM
 
Wrg1405 said:
Is not the remnant Israel?
Click to expand...
"Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s Righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the Righteousness of God (Rom. 10:1-3).

The main purpose of the Holy Spirit giving us, through Paul, Chapters 9 through 11 of Romans was not, as stated, for Prophetical analysis, even though that, in measure, was given, but rather to warn the Church. If the Church follows in Israel’s footsteps by being ignorant of God’s Righteousness or by refusing God’s Righteousness, attempting, as Israel, to establish its own righteousness, the Church will be cut off just as Israel was cut off.

Concerning this, Paul said, “For if God spared not the natural branches (Israel), take heed lest He also spare not you (refers to the Church, as is obvious). Behold, therefore the goodness and severity of God (don’t mistake the Goodness of God for license): on them which fell, severity (speaks of Judgment which came on Israel, God’s chosen People); but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His Goodness (proclaims the conditions; the continuing of that “Goodness” pertains to continued Faith in Christ and the Cross): otherwise you also shall be cut off” (Rom. 11:21-22).

“God’s Righteousness” is that which is afforded by Jesus Christ, gained by and through the Cross. The only way that God’s Righteousness can be given to anyone is by virtue of the Cross, which demands Faith on the part of the recipient. If one attempts to gain righteousness by any other manner, the Lord refers to it as “self-righteousness,” and it is unacceptable — totally unacceptable!

I ask the following question:

How much is the modern Church preaching the Cross? The answer screams back at us, “Precious little!”

The Church has already apostatized. The Church Age opened with Christ standing in the midst of the candlesticks, in which the candlesticks represent the Church (Rev. 1:12-13). At the close of the Church Age, which pertains to the present time, we no longer find Christ in the midst of the Church, but rather outside, knocking on the door, trying to get it (Rev. 3:17-20). The Lord is, in fact, no longer dealing with the institutionalized Church as a whole, but rather with individuals only.

To be sure, the Lord has always dealt with individuals, but now it is only individuals.

“If any man hear My Voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me” (Rev. 3:20). So, who presently is saved?

It is the same now as it was with Israel of old.

Paul said, “Even so then at this present time (Paul’s day) also there is a Remnant according to the election of Grace (definitely speaks of Predestination, but not as many think; it is the “Remnant” that is elected or predestined, not who will be in the Remnant).

“And if by Grace (the Goodness of God, all made possible by the Cross), then is it no more of works (no one can point to their works as grounds for Salvation): otherwise Grace is no more Grace (if works are mixed with Grace, they nullify Grace). But if it be of works, then is it no more Grace (works can never produce Grace): otherwise work is no more work” (for example, Water Baptism, if acted upon wrongly, nullifies its true meaning; this also holds true for all other great Ordinances of the Lord) (Rom. 11:5-6).

As there was a “Remnant” in Israel who were saved, meaning that most were lost, likewise, there also is a “Remnant” in the modern Church who are saved, but only a Remnant. Israel had rejected much of that which was of the Lord, but when they rejected the Cross, there was nothing left. They were cut off. The modern Church has done the same thing. It has rejected much which is of the Lord, but now it is rejecting the Cross. As with Israel, if the Cross is rejected, that means the Righteousness of God is rejected, and that means the Church is also cut off — except for the “Remnant.”

Are you in the Remnant?

The only way that anyone can be in the Remnant is by accepting Christ and what Christ did at the Cross. There is no other way!"’

—Donnie Swaggart (taken from the “Word for Every Day”)
Donnie Swaggart
 
iLOVE said:
"Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s Righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the Righteousness of God (Rom. 10:1-3).

The main purpose of the Holy Spirit giving us, through Paul, Chapters 9 through 11 of Romans was not, as stated, for Prophetical analysis, even though that, in measure, was given, but rather to warn the Church. If the Church follows in Israel’s footsteps by being ignorant of God’s Righteousness or by refusing God’s Righteousness, attempting, as Israel, to establish its own righteousness, the Church will be cut off just as Israel was cut off.

Concerning this, Paul said, “For if God spared not the natural branches (Israel), take heed lest He also spare not you (refers to the Church, as is obvious). Behold, therefore the goodness and severity of God (don’t mistake the Goodness of God for license): on them which fell, severity (speaks of Judgment which came on Israel, God’s chosen People); but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His Goodness (proclaims the conditions; the continuing of that “Goodness” pertains to continued Faith in Christ and the Cross): otherwise you also shall be cut off” (Rom. 11:21-22).

“God’s Righteousness” is that which is afforded by Jesus Christ, gained by and through the Cross. The only way that God’s Righteousness can be given to anyone is by virtue of the Cross, which demands Faith on the part of the recipient. If one attempts to gain righteousness by any other manner, the Lord refers to it as “self-righteousness,” and it is unacceptable — totally unacceptable!

I ask the following question:

How much is the modern Church preaching the Cross? The answer screams back at us, “Precious little!”

The Church has already apostatized. The Church Age opened with Christ standing in the midst of the candlesticks, in which the candlesticks represent the Church (Rev. 1:12-13). At the close of the Church Age, which pertains to the present time, we no longer find Christ in the midst of the Church, but rather outside, knocking on the door, trying to get it (Rev. 3:17-20). The Lord is, in fact, no longer dealing with the institutionalized Church as a whole, but rather with individuals only.

To be sure, the Lord has always dealt with individuals, but now it is only individuals.

“If any man hear My Voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me” (Rev. 3:20). So, who presently is saved?

It is the same now as it was with Israel of old.

Paul said, “Even so then at this present time (Paul’s day) also there is a Remnant according to the election of Grace (definitely speaks of Predestination, but not as many think; it is the “Remnant” that is elected or predestined, not who will be in the Remnant).

“And if by Grace (the Goodness of God, all made possible by the Cross), then is it no more of works (no one can point to their works as grounds for Salvation): otherwise Grace is no more Grace (if works are mixed with Grace, they nullify Grace). But if it be of works, then is it no more Grace (works can never produce Grace): otherwise work is no more work” (for example, Water Baptism, if acted upon wrongly, nullifies its true meaning; this also holds true for all other great Ordinances of the Lord) (Rom. 11:5-6).

As there was a “Remnant” in Israel who were saved, meaning that most were lost, likewise, there also is a “Remnant” in the modern Church who are saved, but only a Remnant. Israel had rejected much of that which was of the Lord, but when they rejected the Cross, there was nothing left. They were cut off. The modern Church has done the same thing. It has rejected much which is of the Lord, but now it is rejecting the Cross. As with Israel, if the Cross is rejected, that means the Righteousness of God is rejected, and that means the Church is also cut off — except for the “Remnant.”

Are you in the Remnant?

The only way that anyone can be in the Remnant is by accepting Christ and what Christ did at the Cross. There is no other way!"’

—Donnie Swaggart (taken from the “Word for Every Day”)
Donnie Swaggart
Click to expand...
Your words or DS words?
 
Romans 9:27
27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:
“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
 
We must not be ignorant of Satan's devices!

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God (Gal. 5:19-21).

The manner and way that one can tell if one is truly following Christ, and, by that, we refer to placing one’s Faith in Christ and the Cross, and maintaining his Faith in that manner, is that the “works of the flesh” are no longer in our life. The only way, and we mean the only way, that the Believer is going to be free from the “works of the flesh” is by the method which we have just mentioned: Faith in Christ and the Cross. If one resorts to Law in any measure, to self-effort regarding rules and regulations, etc., such a Believer is going to fail the Lord. The Holy Spirit simply will not help such a Believer. As we have previously stated, the reason the Holy Spirit will not help is that such a person is committing “spiritual adultery,” and the Holy Spirit will have no part of that, as should be obvious.

Let us say it in another way:

There is only one way for victory over “works of the flesh,” and that is by the Power of the Holy Spirit, Who performs His Work exclusively within the parameters of the Finished Work of Christ. In other words, what the Holy Spirit does in our lives constitutes a legal work. That’s why Paul said, “For the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the Law of sin and death” (Rom. 8:2).

As we have also previously stated, victory over the “Law of sin and death,” which characterizes “works of the flesh,” can only be brought about through “the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus,” which is the most powerful Law on the face of the Earth, but yet the only Law that is more powerful than the “Law of sin and death.”

We should look very thoughtfully at this list of “works of the flesh” (Gal. 5:19-21). While all of us might concur to the wickedness of the first four, we very little think of “idolatry,” “witchcraft,” “hatred,” “heresies,” etc.

Please, however, note carefully:

Every single Preacher in the world who is preaching something other than Christ and the Cross is preaching “heresy,” which is a “work of the flesh.” Furthermore, anything that we place as a substitute for Christ and the Cross is judged by God as “idolatry.”

Paul tells us here that if we refuse God’s Way, which is the Way of the Cross, which means that these “works of the flesh” are going to run unchecked within our lives, even growing steadily worse, the end result can most definitely be the loss of the soul. So God’s Way of the Cross is not one option among several. It is the only option!”

— Donnie Swaggart (taken from the “Word for Every Day”)
Donnie Swaggart
 
iLOVE said:
ONLY the remnant will be saved.
Click to expand...
And you are part of the remnant?
If so why so?

What seperates you me and others on here?

Maybe start another thread on this matter.
I don't want to detract from this thread.

It's a good one that does not need to be bombarded by the Swaggarts and long postings of theirs that you post.
 
Wrg1405 said:
And you are part of the remnant?
If so why so?

What seperates you me and others on here?
Click to expand...
The only way that anyone can be in the Remnant is by accepting Christ and what Christ did at the Cross. There is no other way! In others words the Believer Faith must be placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and the Finished Work at Calvary Cross, i.e., "The Blood of Jesus." This is sanctification!
 
Wrg1405 said:
Can you expand a bit please?
Not sure whether you mean can a born again Christian lose their salvation.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind by the statement you made that this does not become OSAS vs OSNAS which is no loner allowed to be discussed.
 
It is by "Grace" through "Faith" that the "Temple" is built (our Temple). The "Temple was to be built under Solomon; not the sound of a hammer, not the sound of a tool, i.e., not one sound of mans labor.

The only thing that God will accept from any Believer is "Faith" in His Son Jesus and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won, i.e., The Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus. ONLY!!!!!!!

Because the Believer is in Christ, all commandments are kept by the Holy Spirit which is impossible for any Believer to keep. If Christ is a law-keeper than the Believer is a law-keeper.

Romans 8:13 says, "If you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live." Paul warns the Believer, he said, "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, (the) sin (nature) revived, and I died (failed God by sinning, using the flesh) (Romans 7:9)." Zechariah 4:6

The sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit mortifies the deed of the flesh by changing my condition into my position which is perfect and Holy because God has declared us justified (not guilt and innocent).

As a Christian we were "set free" the moment we are saved - "made free" speaks of a process. "Set Free," i.e., instantaneous - "Made Free, " i.e., You should know the truth and the truth shall make you free (John 8:32, John 14:6). "Made Free" = sanctification.

Two kinds of peace
1. Justifying Peace - This is Peace with God, a legal standing. Rom. 8:7; Eph. 2:14-15

2. Sanctifying Peace - This is the Peace of God in the heart. Rom. 8:6; 14:19; 15:13; Gal. 1:3

The first is the result of a legal standing. The second is the result of the Work of the Holy Spirit. The first is static, never fluctuates, the second changes almost from hour to hour. The first, every Christian has, the second, every Christian may have.
 
iLOVE said:
The only way that anyone can be in the Remnant is by accepting Christ and what Christ did at the Cross. There is no other way! In others words the Believer Faith must be placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and the Finished Work at Calvary Cross, i.e., "The Blood of Jesus." This is sanctification!
Click to expand...
What's your thoughts on justification?
 
for_his_glory said:
Keep in mind by the statement you made that this does not become OSAS vs OSNAS which is no loner allowed to be discussed.
Click to expand...
Yes I know this.
And it was not an argument I was looking for or to debate.

Was just a bit confused by the word "Unsanctified"

I'm sure brother JLB will clarify for me.
 
Wrg1405 said:
What's your thoughts on justification?
Click to expand...
Justification delivers us from the penalty of sin, while sanctification delivers us from the power of sin.

Those who walk in the spirit will always have shortcomings (acts of sin) until the trump sounds. We must rejoice in whatever Glory we are in. God is the potter and we are the clay. He moves us from glory to glory and faith to faith. No man or woman can change their life without the Holy Spirit. Can an Ethiopian change the color of his skin? Can a leopard take away its spots? Neither can you start doing good, for you have always done evil (Jeremiah 13:23). The scripture says before He formed me in my mothers womb He approved me.

This is why we must understand what justification is and why it is the first subject in the book of Romans. It lays down the foundation as I go through sanctification.

Justification gives me the ability to get back up from every failure no matter how many times and stand up and go through this process and learn it. Justification gives us a legal standing with God that is not cancelled because of the acts of sin. So if I fail (and we will) at this same thing a thousand times - God forbid! We are a work in progress. Remember Jesus said I did not come to condemn (John 3:17).

Justification is not what we do, and not what I am, and not what I worked for. It is what Jesus did and my faith in it that gives me the standing with God that I need to carry on my Christian experience. Sometime I do it well, and sometimes I do it not so well, but his justifying Grace will not fail unless my faith fails. It is just if I have never sinned and just if I have always obeyed.

Pastor Loren Larson
 
iLOVE said:
Justification delivers us from the penalty of sin, while sanctification delivers us from the power of sin.

Those who walk in the spirit will always have shortcomings (acts of sin) until the trump sounds. We must rejoice in whatever Glory we are in. God is the potter and we are the clay. He moves us from glory to glory and faith to faith. No man or woman can change their life without the Holy Spirit. Can an Ethiopian change the color of his skin? Can a leopard take away its spots? Neither can you start doing good, for you have always done evil (Jeremiah 13:23). The scripture says before He formed me in my mothers womb He approved me.
Click to expand...

No problems with that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top