Salvation/Works Question...

[cosmicutopia]

If salvation is not by works, and we can do nothing to earn our way into God's family, how am I supposed to deal with verses that demand all people to repent and obey Christ's commandments? If we obeyed and repented, we would have something to boast about and we would've earned, or worked our way up the spiritual ladder to God (which is impossible).

Can we therefore conclude that it is impossible to do those things which Chist commands and demands without his will and him first drawing us? (John 6:44) This makes our free will in salvation impossible right?

 

[theLords]

What?

Would you mind posting the verses you are talking about?

Why would:

John 6:44 (ESV)
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me(A) draws him. And(B) I will raise him up on the last day.

take away someone's free will?

 

[cosmicutopia]

How can one who is dead make any choices or believe?

The verse means no one can come to Jesus without God's drawing, correct?

Which means, our choice to repent and obey doesn't get us saved, correct?

(I'm just looking for answers here)

 

[Alabaster]

How can one who is dead make any choices or believe?

The verse means no one can come to Jesus without God's drawing, correct?

Which means, our choice to repent and obey doesn't get us saved, correct?

(I'm just looking for answers here)

The choice to choose Christ and life---salvation---is made while living.

 

[cosmicutopia]

The choice to choose Christ and life---salvation---is made while living.

Let me specify that I meant spiritually dead here.

So we have a final say in our salvation by believing then? Isn't this unbiblical?

Us choosing Christ is us earning or "working" our way into heaven isnt it?

 

[Alabaster]

Let me specify that I meant spiritually dead here.

Oh! OK. We are all spiritually dead until God lights us with His spark of faith.

So we have a final say in our salvation by believing then? Isn't this unbiblical?

God comes after us. We respond to His call. That is biblical.

Us choosing Christ is us earning or "working" our way into heaven isnt it?

No, we receive the reward of heaven based on what Jesus has done on our behalf---we cannot gain it ourselves. It's a free gift. Jesus has stood before the Judge and taken the blame for our crimes, so we can walk free.

 

[farouk]

It's 'not of works', as Paul in Ephesians 2.9 says.

Verse 8: its 'by grace...through faith'.

 

[cosmicutopia]

Oh! OK. We are all spiritually dead until God lights us with His spark of faith.


God comes after us. We respond to His call. That is biblical.



No, we receive the reward of heaven based on what Jesus has done on our behalf---we cannot gain it ourselves. It's a free gift. Jesus has stood before the Judge and taken the blame for our crimes, so we can walk free.

So is it biblical then to say that it is impossible for someone to respond to Jesus' numerous claims to repentance and obedience unless God has first drawn them?

 

[Jael]

Let me specify that I meant spiritually dead here.

So we have a final say in our salvation by believing then? Isn't this unbiblical?

Us choosing Christ is us earning or "working" our way into heaven isnt it?

We can't choose Christ until the Father draws us to Him. Even the faith through which we are saved is given to us by God:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. (KJV)

We can't drum it up on our own, and we can't take credit for it - it comes from Him. So no, our faith is not earning our way to heaven.

So is it biblical then to say that it is impossible for someone to respond to Jesus' numerous claims to repentance and obedience unless God has first drawn them?

Yes, I believe that is true.

Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him...(KJV)

He is truly the author and finisher of our faith.

 

[Alabaster]

So is it biblical then to say that it is impossible for someone to respond to Jesus' numerous claims to repentance and obedience unless God has first drawn them?

Jesus does draw everyone, but until that faith is instilled, and that revelation of Jesus as the Saviour is received, and one responds to receive, one is not saved.

Jesus, regarding His impending crucifixion:

John 12:32 NLT
And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.

 

[Hitch]

So is it biblical then to say that it is impossible for someone to respond to Jesus' numerous claims to repentance and obedience unless God has first drawn them?

Jesus said

But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear

and he wasnt kidding. You are correct.

 

[farouk]

We can't choose Christ until the Father draws us to Him. Even the faith through which we are saved is given to us by God:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. (KJV)

We can't drum it up on our own, and we can't take credit for it - it comes from Him. So no, our faith is not earning our way to heaven.



Yes, I believe that is true.

Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him...(KJV)

He is truly the author and finisher of our faith.

Jael:

Those are great passages from Ephesians 2 and John 6, which emphasize our debt to the wondrous grace of God in the Gospel!

BTW: are you named for the Biblical Jael, victorious over Sisera (if I'm not mistaken?)

God bless.

 

[Jael]

Jael:

Those are great passages from Ephesians 2 and John 6, which emphasize our debt to the wondrous grace of God in the Gospel!

BTW: are you named for the Biblical Jael, victorious over Sisera (if I'm not mistaken?)

God bless.

Thanks! Yes, I chose my username after her.

 

[stovebolts]

I've always wondered why whenever people mention work, they automatically assume something is earned. I've also noticed that they always post Ephesians 2:8-9, but never ever post verse 10.

What if we put the emphasis on verse 10? How would that change our view of work?

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Thoughts?

 

[farouk]

I've always wondered why whenever people mention work, they automatically assume something is earned. I've also noticed that they always post Ephesians 2:8-9, but never ever post verse 10.

What if we put the emphasis on verse 10? How would that change our view of work?

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Thoughts?

S:

Works are as a result of faith. In fact, the Lord Jesus said, 'By their fruits ye shall know them'.

But this is very different from thinking our good works will somehow earn us favor with God, from the perspective of the believer's salvation.

 

[Hitch]

I've always wondered why whenever people mention work, they automatically assume something is earned. I've also noticed that they always post Ephesians 2:8-9, but never ever post verse 10.

What if we put the emphasis on verse 10? How would that change our view of work?

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Thoughts?

But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Even the idea of grace can be carried too far.

 

[beardedad]

It is the grace of God that saves us not anything that we do. I see salvation as a gift Jesus gave us when he died for our sins on the cross and became the finial sacrifice.
Ephesians II
8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God; 9 Not of works, that no man may glory.
These works are not vain works done on our own accord or merit, but works done by the grace of God, when one is in a state of Grace or "right relationship" with God
Paul was writing to the Ephesians that works could not get them into heaven. That they could not boost about how much they helped someone, how much money they gave or anything that they did, that their works would not get them a place in heaven. Paul was restating what Jesus already said that it was a gift that he gives us.

 

[dadof10]

Us choosing Christ is us earning or "working" our way into heaven isnt it?

...Or, put another way, "accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior" is a WORK, right? According to most Protestant traditions to DO it is NECESSARY for salvation, right?

 

[dadof10]

I've always wondered why whenever people mention work, they automatically assume something is earned.

I think it's a misunderstanding of the word "works" and Paul's reaction to works of the Law, which is specifically what he's talking about in his epistles (hi Drew). Within Judaism there always was (and still is) the idea that God saves those who keep the Law and that a good Jew is entitled to salvation based upon this. This idea is what Paul is railing against.

When discussing charity, love, keeping the commandments, etc., a more accurate word would be obedience. It has less of an "earn" and more of a "duty" connotation to it. Nowhere in Scripture are charity, love, etc. called "works".

Neither is "accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior" called a "work", but it still MUST BE DONE to be saved.

There are things we MUST DO in obedience to God that affect our salvation, then there are "works", which don't.

I think that's the confusion. Not everything done is a "work".

 

[WIP]

I think too often we tend to worry too much about legalism to the point of denying the works of our faith. We don't have to be afraid of the works. Works comes by faith. Faith without works is dead. I think we need to just allow ourselves to give in, follow, and serve Jesus and if that means we outwardly show our devotion then so be it.