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Satan: Christianity vs Judaism

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Vanguard

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Note: this discussion is for educational purposes only. It is to explore the mythology of Satan, using two different religions that share the same OT of the Bible. There is no intent to try and change anyone's view about Satan. I will merely be stating the facts, and disregarding any fictional or out-of-context accounts.




Christianity

For Christians, Satan is the Devil. He is a fallen angel, the great adversary, the enemy of God, a deceiver, a liar, and responsible for many ungodly things that happen in the world. He tempts us into evil, he brings about misery, suffering, and works to separate us from God. This is pretty much Christianity 101.

There are several instances within the Bible (both the OT and NT) where Satan (the Devil), is at work, mentioned, and is shown to be the biggest adversary to God. The NT clearly depicts a "Satan vs. God" scenario. The Book of Revelation mentions Satan no less than 11 times (literally or implied).

Satan is referenced by many names, to include Lucifer (KJV) , The Serpent, The Prince of Lies, The Fallen One, The Devil, The Deceiver, Old Scratch, etc. Some of the names are folklore based, but none-the-less people use them to refer to Satan. Over the centuries, Satan's story has expanded beyond the scope of the Bible.

The word devil comes from the Middle English use of the word devel, from the Old English dēofol, which represents a Germanic rendering of the Latin diabolus, which borrowed from the Greek diabolos. Note that these renderings only refer to the term "devil" and not the word "satan." The actual name "Satan" comes from the Hebrew word "HaSaTan" (more on this later).

The NT contains the basis for many Christian views about Satan. The Apocrypha contains some references to Satan by way of the Book of Enoch (implied rendering). There his name is believed to be Satariel, Sataniel or Satan'el. They are "angelic" sounding, much like Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel. Thus the belief that Satan was once an angel.

Satan has been included in many literary works such as Paradise Lost and Dante's Inferno. A lot of the mythology about Satan comes not from biblical accounts, but from fictional works. It is important that you separate the two.


Judaism


Under Judaism, Satan is not an adversary of God. He is not a fallen angel. He is not a deceiver. He does not bring about misery, suffering, or tries to separate us from God. None of that is found in the OT, and certainly not in the Hebrew.

The Hebrew word "HaSaTan" is not actually a name, but a title. It means "the Accuser" (or in some renderings, the Adversary). Under their belief, Satan has a specific job given to him by God. He is to bring the sinful before God, accuse them of their sins (crimes), and God passes judgment. If you use a courtroom analogy, Satan is the district attorney and God is the judge. Satan does not work against God, but instead is following God's orders.

An example would be Zechariah chapter 3. Satan brings the high priest Joshua before God, accuses him of his sin, and God renders judgment. Yes God says "The Lord rebuke you, Satan!" but don't take it out of context. The chapter is referring to Joshua allowing his daughters to marry Gentiles, Satan sees it as a sin, and brings him before God (that is his job). God defends Joshua by saying that he has kept His commandments and has done no wrong.

Under Judaism, God is all powerful (omnipotent), all knowing (omniscient) and everywhere (omnipresent). Nothing happens without God's say-so. The flip side is that Satan is a being that was created by God, and has no power. He can't do anything without God's permission or approval. He follows God's orders and carries out his assigned job (thus his title, not name). The story found in the Book of Job illustrates this.

To give Satan power to act without God's approval or permission, means that Satan is a type of god unto himself. Both Judaism and Christianity believe that God is the one true God, the only God, and so Satan can't have power on his own. He is subject to God's will. Satan is not the Devil under Judaism. Orthodox Judaism does not recognize the NT, and they disregard the Christian interpretations based off NT renderings.



Thus we have two different accounts of Satan, his role, and the beliefs surrounding him.
 
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Note: this discussion is for educational purposes only. It is to explore the mythology of Satan, using two different religions that share the same OT of the Bible. There is no intent to try and change anyone's view about Satan. I will merely be stating the facts, and disregarding any fictional or out-of-context accounts.
If you're not going to attempt to change anyone's view, why would you refer to Satan as a "myth?"
 
If you're not going to attempt to change anyone's view, why would you refer to Satan as a "myth?"

I didn't. I said the mythology surrounding him. That is to say the stories about Satan. Some are fact and some are fiction.
 
Judaism and Christianity are both false religions (that is; the sects and denominations of Orthodox Christianity - not those who follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth). However, there are bits and pieces of truth in both religions. With regard to Satan: Judaism, at least as you have described their view above, is 100% Scripturally correct. The fallen religion of Christianity and all of it's divisions (denomination means division - i.e. - numerator and DENOMINATOR = divisor in a mathematical fraction) is filled with unscriptural pagan folklore and fables with regard to Satan. Unfortunately, even if you document the truth from Scripture, orthodox Christians will not give up their beloved idols of the heart (Ezekiel 14:9) no matter what the Scriptures say.
 
Judaism and Christianity are both false religions (that is; the sects and denominations of Orthodox Christianity - not those who follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth). However, there are bits and pieces of truth in both religions. With regard to Satan: Judaism, at least as you have described their view above, is 100% Scripturally correct. The fallen religion of Christianity and all of it's divisions (denomination means division - i.e. - numerator and DENOMINATOR = divisor in a mathematical fraction) is filled with unscriptural pagan folklore and fables with regard to Satan. Unfortunately, even if you document the truth from Scripture, orthodox Christians will not give up their beloved idols of the heart (Ezekiel 14:9) no matter what the Scriptures say.

This actually hits home with me more than anything right now. I grew up as a Southern Baptist, so I attended one of those hell, fire and brimstone type of churches, complete with all the fear factors, "thou shalt not's," the KJV was 100% literal and accurate, etc.

Then I got older, and started realizing that what I thought I knew, wasn't always the case. The more I study theology (and history) I realize that my views have changed on a large variety of subjects. I could never be an Orthodox Jew as I disagree with too many of their beliefs. At the same time, I am no longer a Southern Baptist either. I'm not sure what my "label" would be, other than a Christian.

Regardless, my approach now is to try and separate fact from fiction, and go from there.
 
This actually hits home with me more than anything right now. I grew up as a Southern Baptist, so I attended one of those hell, fire and brimstone type of churches, complete with all the fear factors, "thou shalt not's," the KJV was 100% literal and accurate, etc.

Then I got older, and started realizing that what I thought I knew, wasn't always the case. The more I study theology (and history) I realize that my views have changed on a large variety of subjects. I could never be an Orthodox Jew as I disagree with too many of their beliefs. At the same time, I am no longer a Southern Baptist either.


I'm not sure what my "label" would be, other than a Christian.



Thank you for sharing. I would "label" you a Christian, or a follower of Christ, whom God has "called out of Babylon" (the false church system). Contrary to what orthodoxy thinks, neither Babylon nor the true kingdom of God are physical or exterior. Both are spiritual, both are interior, they are WITHIN US, and they oppose each other. The one is to grow WITHIN US till it "fills the whole earth," and the other is "the earth," which opposes the heavenly realm WITHIN US and is doomed to be "utterly burned with spiritual fire" and to destruction, never to be rebuilt. (this is the summary of the book of Revelation).



We know this because WE ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD:

1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know that YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?"
1 Corinthians 3:17 "If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which TEMPLE YOU ARE."

1 Corinthians 6:19 "Or do you not know that YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT who is in you?"

2 Corinthians 6:16: "For YOU ARE THE TEMPLE of the living God; as God has said, I will dwell IN THEM, and walk in them"




And where does the 'MAN OF SIN' sit; since WE ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD?

2 Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that MAN OF SIN be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God SITTETH IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, showing himself that he is God."


The "man of sin sitting in the temple of God, showing himself to be God," is NOT Satan (another orthodox lie concerning Satan). The 'MAN OF SIN' sitting the 'TEMPLE OF GOD', showing himself to be God is YOU and ME while we still hold onto the false doctrines and false spirits of Babylon. When God calls us out of Babylon, the 'man of sin' is destroyed by "the brightness of His coming" and He rightly sits on the throne of our lives, and we then "follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth" (Revelation 14:4) rather than the lies of Babylon.



It would appear that this is in fact happening with you. And praise God! :amen :nod

It is God who calls us out of Babylon, we do not choose to leave on our own.




It is true that we are among those who are still in Babylon, and we will be in their midst as long as we live:

John 17:15 "I pray NOT that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil."



And Revelation 18:4 complements John 17:15 above; it does not contradict it:

Revelation 18:4 "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."





What happens to HIS PEOPLE who do "come out of her?" Again, the gospel of John complements the book of Revelation and vice-versa. This is what happens to those who come out of Babylon:

Matthew 10:17 "But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues [even modern ONLINE synagogues if you go against their TOS ;)]



John 17:14 "I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world [the worldly religious establishment, Not Pilate and the "world" of Rome].

Matthew 24:9 "Then shall they [God's own people] deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake."

John 16:2 "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yes, the time comes, that whoever kills you will think that he does God service."





It has always been our own spiritual brothers who persecute us the most. It is always our fellow "seed of Abraham" brothers who hate their chosen brothers, such as Joseph. It has been so ever since Cain slew Abel, his own brother.


Genesis 37:4 "And when his brethren saw that their father loved him [Joseph] more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him."

Isaiah 3:12 "As for MY PEOPLE, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them."
[the Great Harlot Babylon is the WOMAN who rules over God's people today]



Christ is indeed "working all things after the counsel of His own will," (Ephesians 1:11) There is no way YOU or ME can call someone out of Babylon; God must do it. People who believe our God of infinite LOVE will brutally torment unbelievers with fire for eternity are so beyond blinded and lost in Babylon WITHIN themselves that only divine intervention can bring them out of such darkness.

The Jesus of God's Word doesn't even pray for, much less "stay and fix the problems" of Babylon. Babylon was "raised up WITHIN EACH OF US" for this very purpose, to be destroyed and "die daily," and to be replaced by a "new man." The "old man [earth] must pass away."



Again, praise God He has called you out. Not many are:

Matthew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
 
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Bringing this back to the top as it is relevant to other popular threads.

:bump
 
Surprised very few people responded to this. Anyone else have a perspective on this subject?
 
Reading the bible from beginning to end. We clearly see progressive relevation. Do you deny that?

Timeout...

There are threads covering how to interpret the Bible, the methods of translation, keeping things in context, the history behind the OT, Judaism vs. Christianity, etc. Rather than rehashing those points here, let me point you to those threads, read over them, then we'll continue this discussion.

Interpreting the Bible: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=48731

Genesis and the Creation of Humans: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=48751

The Book of Revelation: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=48914

The Moment of Death: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=48987

A Study of Lucifer: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=48379

Sink your teeth into those (no need to go beyond the first page on any), try to understand the premise of using context, then come back and we'll talk about "progressive revelation."

I can't wait for this . . .

:popcorn

Hey, I'm being nice!

:readbible
 
Timeout...

There are threads covering how to interpret the Bible, the methods of translation, keeping things in context, the history behind the OT, Judaism vs. Christianity, etc. Rather than rehashing those points here, let me point you to those threads, read over them, then we'll continue this discussion.

Interpreting the Bible: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=48731

Genesis and the Creation of Humans: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=48751

The Book of Revelation: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=48914

The Moment of Death: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=48987

A Study of Lucifer: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=48379

Sink your teeth into those (no need to go beyond the first page on any), try to understand the premise of using context, then come back and we'll talk about "progressive revelation."



Hey, I'm being nice!

:readbible

Where are you getting your degree from?

Progressive revelation is 101. And yes I am being nice too.
 
This actually hits home with me more than anything right now. I grew up as a Southern Baptist, so I attended one of those hell, fire and brimstone type of churches, complete with all the fear factors, "thou shalt not's," the KJV was 100% literal and accurate, etc.

Then I got older, and started realizing that what I thought I knew, wasn't always the case. The more I study theology (and history) I realize that my views have changed on a large variety of subjects. I could never be an Orthodox Jew as I disagree with too many of their beliefs. At the same time, I am no longer a Southern Baptist either. I'm not sure what my "label" would be, other than a Christian.

Regardless, my approach now is to try and separate fact from fiction, and go from there.


Just want you to know the KJV only stuff is not a SBC doctrine. That was something your congregation appears to hold to.

We hold to biblical inerrancy in the original manuscripts.

We hold to the literal METHOD of interpeting scripture.
 
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We hold to biblical inerrancy in the original manuscripts.

Wow. Original manuscripts? If you have them in your possession, it's about time that you share them with the rest of us. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls aren't original manuscripts.
 
No one claims to have the originals.

Oh, you don't?


We hold to biblical inerrancy in the original manuscripts.

Please tell me, how does one hold to biblical inerrancy in the original manuscripts while, at the same time, try to distance herself and her entire denomination from the KJV, if she has never had access to the original manuscripts?
 
Where are you getting your degree from?

An accredited seminary, full of MAs and PhDs. Some are liberal, some are conservative, one is a former Orthodox Jew turned Catholic, but who is more open minded than most.

Your Progressive Revelation is a Christian invention and philosophy. Non-Christians, especially Orthodox Jews, will just shake their heads at you.
 
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