Satan: Christianity vs Judaism

[Gordon]

I am no where near as good as you guys with scripture but I notice a difference too. In the NT there is so much more talk of demons and a kingdom set against God. I don't really know how to put what is really going on in a spiritual context about how these demons often mentioned in the NT effect us today.

 

[for_his_glory]

Just because Judaism doesn't believe in Satan doesn't mean this evil spirit angel does not exist. Many Hebrews are still waiting for coming Messiah so does that mean Jesus was not the prophesied Messiah. Many say the KJV Bible is a false book as it differs from the original writings, which by the way the original writings were that of the Prophets and Apostles giving their eye witness accounts of God, but yet who of us can read Aramaic as that was the original language even before the Greek. Just because someone has gone to Seminary School and has some degree in theology does that make them an expert in all truths. Why is it a child can understand and know God, but adults lean upon their own understanding by the way they are taught from whatever religion they are involved with or just from their own logic. I just don't get it. If one is truly in Christ by that Spiritual renewal/rebirth then why are they not hearing the Holy Spirit speak to them in all truths of what God has already spoken for the word of God never comes back void, but is made void in ones life by the way it is being taught.

 

[P31Woman]

An accredited seminary, full of MAs and PhDs. Some are liberal, some are conservative, one is a former Orthodox Jew turned Catholic, but who is more open minded than most.

Your Progressive Revelation is a Christian invention and philosophy. Non-Christians, especially Orthodox Jews, will just shake their heads at you.

Well of course Orthodox Jews would not agree with me. They don't want to admit the Messiah has come.

It's not an "invention" it's what you can see in black and white. God does not tell us everything about himself, satan, man, salvation, etc in the first chapter of the book. It's a progressive revelation.

The Jewish cannon is a mystery. The mystery is solved in the New Testament.

 

[Vanguard]

Back to the topic: Satan according to Judaism and Christianity...

 

[P31Woman]

Back to the topic: Satan according to Judaism and Christianity...

Christian faith knows that satan is the accuser. We know more than the Jews who only read the first half of the book.

 

[Vanguard]

Christian faith knows that satan is the accuser. We know more than the Jews who only read the first half of the book.

Actually both Judaism and Christianity know Satan as the accuser, as that is what his title Ha-SaTan means in Hebrew. No it is not how you are referring to him. Most Orthodox Christians will actually say that Satan is the adversary (of God), not accuser, as both can be translated from the Hebrew.

Well of course Orthodox Jews would not agree with me. They don't want to admit the Messiah has come.

The Jewish cannon is a mystery. The mystery is solved in the New Testament.

Go back and read the OP on this thread. If you wish to discuss Christian vs. Judaism views on the Bible, we can start another thread.

No I am not Jewish, but have studied Judaism in-depth.

 

[ezrider]

I would agree that the mythology that has come to characterize Satan has certainly clouded any resemblance to his true nature, and has served to perpetuate wild imaginations to the understanding of certain scripture. Satan is most certainly the accuser, as the book of Revelations declares:

Rev 12:9-10
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

But Satan is more than simply the accuser of our brethren, Satan’s power comes from the Law, and without the Law, he is nothing. In fact, Satan could be looked at almost synonymously with the law, for it is the law that accuses us. Now before anyone flies off the handle here, Satan is not the only one who was identified as the accuser; Jesus identified Moses as the accuser.

John 5:45
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

I don’t think there are many that would argue that the law isn’t synonymous with Moses, just as it is with Satan.

Now if I may take a little liberty, there is an analogy here for those who see who see the King of Tyrus in Ezekiel 28 as a type for Satan. We are told that he was the anointed cherub that covereth, and that he was perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him. In looking at the law, it was seen as perfect, yet a flaw was found in it: the law in and of itself could not give life, only death. In this archetype, the anointed cherub covered the mercy seat, or in other words, sought to hide or prevent mercy. Yet through the law and the prophets we know that God demanded mercy.

Micah 6:8
8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God.

But mercy does not come from the law, mercy can only come through faith. This was demonstrated through the ministry of Jesus:

Mark 2:6-10
6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, 7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? 8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? 9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? 10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins.

Matt 23:23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

I could go on and on with scripture in the vein of judge not lest ye be judged, and yet that is the essence of our battle against the principalities and powers, it is a spiritual battle concerning the law; which bring us back to Satan and the law as our accuser. When we try to walk by the law according to the flesh, it is easy to develop a sense of self-righteousness and pride, and then we take on the role of accuser as we condemn others for not following the law, when in fact the law according to the flesh should form in us a sense of humility.

James 4:7-11
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

Jude 1:8-10
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

 

[enlightened]

When did the 'jewish' beliefs concerning Satan begin? And, since Satan, Lucifer, and the devil are the same person, can you tell me the first lie he told, which was the first lie ever told, according to Jesus (JN8:44)? Note: since you are able to use multiple translations, an ability you think is admirable, lets use the KJV only, so there is no disagreement as to the WORD we use, O.K.?

 

[Vanguard]

When did the 'jewish' beliefs concerning Satan begin? And, since Satan, Lucifer, and the devil are the same person, can you tell me the first lie he told, which was the first lie ever told, according to Jesus (JN8:44)? Note: since you are able to use multiple translations, an ability you think is admirable, lets use the KJV only, so there is no disagreement as to the WORD we use, O.K.?

I have a better idea. Let's use the KJV and try to support it with Byzantine texts, Alexandrian texts, Critical texts, and a Hebrew-Greek-English Interlinear Bible so that we can be 100% certain what the actual WORD refers to.

Of course we need to further define which KJV you want. There have been over a dozen revisions since 1611.

 

[P31Woman]

I have a better idea. Let's use the KJV and try to support it with Byzantine texts, Alexandrian texts, Critical texts, and a Hebrew-Greek-English Interlinear Bible so that we can be 100% certain what the actual WORD refers to.

Of course we need to further define which KJV you want. There have been over a dozen revisions since 1611.

Why in the world would anyone want to do that?

I trust my God to have the ability to communicate to me plainly when I read his Word with the guidance of His Holy Spirit living within me.

It appears to me you are trying to have people question the reliability of our bible. As Satan said "did God really say that"?

 

[Vanguard]

Why in the world would anyone want to do that?

I trust my God to have the ability to communicate to me plainly when I read his Word with the guidance of His Holy Spirit living within me.

It appears to me you are trying to have people question the reliability of our bible. As Satan said "did God really say that"?

Because every single English translation of the Bible uses one or more of those sources. Some sources are incomplete. Some are older or younger than others. Some have clearly defined mistranslations or misinterpretations. Some are biased. Some are considered corrupt. If you want to get down to the nitty gritty, that's how you go about it.

"Our Bible" is dependent on which source it used. Why do you think there are so many variations (besides copyrights)?

totopic

 

[P31Woman]

Because every single English translation of the Bible uses one or more of those sources. Some sources are incomplete. Some are older or younger than others. Some have clearly defined mistranslations or misinterpretations. Some are biased. Some are considered corrupt. If you want to get down to the nitty gritty, that's how you go about it.

"Our Bible" is dependent on which source it used. Why do you think there are so many variations (besides copyrights)?

totopic

What you just said is that someone else far more educated than I has done the work for me. Great! Now I can move on to something more important.

I trust my medical doctors too.

 

[P31Woman]

An accredited seminary, full of MAs and PhDs. Some are liberal, some are conservative, one is a former Orthodox Jew turned Catholic, but who is more open minded than most.

Your Progressive Revelation is a Christian invention and philosophy. Non-Christians, especially Orthodox Jews, will just shake their heads at you.

Do you have a problem with the Christian view of scritpure? It appears to me that you supporrt "non chrisitan" views of scripture.

 

[P31Woman]

This actually hits home with me more than anything right now. I grew up as a Southern Baptist, so I attended one of those hell, fire and brimstone type of churches, complete with all the fear factors, "thou shalt not's," the KJV was 100% literal and accurate, etc.

Then I got older, and started realizing that what I thought I knew, wasn't always the case. The more I study theology (and history) I realize that my views have changed on a large variety of subjects. I could never be an Orthodox Jew as I disagree with too many of their beliefs. At the same time, I am no longer a Southern Baptist either. I'm not sure what my "label" would be, other than a Christian.

Regardless, my approach now is to try and separate fact from fiction, and go from there.

What Southern Baptist doctrines do you reject. You can find our Statement of Faith at www.sbc.net

 

[P31Woman]

Originally Posted by P31Woman


Progressive Revelation.

We have a clearer picture in
the New Testament than they had in the Old Testament.

Based off what?

Common sense and scripture

 

[Mike]

Regardless, my approach now is to try and separate fact from fiction, and go from there.

I've got to tell you, Vanguard, it sounds like you completed the separation process a while ago, moved past your threshold of indisputable evidence, and moved on to convincing others of your "truths" that have been hidden from His people all these centuries. I see no indication that there is anything you are unconvinced of. You might have received more responses had you not made it clear in the OP that there was nothing up for discussion.

just sayin'...

 

[Vanguard]

It's all good. This was designed to be more of an informative and reference thread.

 

[Guest]

I trust my God to have the ability to communicate to me plainly when I read his Word with the guidance of His Holy Spirit living within me.

Ask Vanguard what he thinks you mean by this statement.

 

[Vanguard]

Ask Vanguard what he thinks you mean by this statement.

I don't interpret what others think. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I respect that.

What I do is correct people when they take verses out of context, and erroneously apply them to what they think. If people use verses within context and it supports their ideas, I agree with them and move on.

Big difference.

 

[Carolyn]

I believe that the serpent (satan) first dèceived Eve in the garden. Jesus said he was the deceiver from the beginning. If Judism doesn't embrace this, perhaps they have been deceived. He is the father of lies and in that way, bringing false accustiòns agaist us, Yes he is also the accusar. Isn't that the meaning of the word devil?