Satan: Christianity vs Judaism

[n2thelight]

And?

Just to say he(satan)dosn't work alone!!!!!!!

 

[Deborah13]

One of my favorite stories, and a large part of why Catholics believe in possession and exorcism. If you continue reading the rest of that chapter, the demons (the KJV uses devils...interesting that it is plural...is there more than 1 satan?) begged not to be sent to the abyss (does not say sheol or hades) and had to ask for Jesus' permission before they could do anything, to include leaving the man and going into the swine. Even in possession they are subject to God's will.

The swine ran into the water and drowned. Does that mean that demons/devils can drown, even though they are not a physical being? Just a thought.

Matthew 9:32-34

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

32 As they were going out, (A)a mute, (B)demon-possessed man [a]was brought to Him. 33 After the demon was cast out, the mute man spoke; and the crowds were amazed, and were saying, “(C)Nothing like this has [b]ever been seen in Israel.” 34 But the Pharisees were saying, “He (D)casts out the demons by the ruler of the demons.”

It appears the Jewish Pharisees believed in demons and that there was a ruler of demons. Or Matthew or God was lying?
?
5 Constantly, night and day, he was screaming among the tombs and in the mountains, and gashing himself with stones. 6 Seeing Jesus from a distance, he ran up and bowed down before Him; 7 and shouting with a loud voice, he *said, “[a](D)What business do we have with each other, Jesus, (E)Son of (F)the Most High God? I implore You by God, do not torment me!” 8 For He had been saying to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!” 9 And He was asking him, “What is your name?” And he *said to Him, “My name is (G)Legion; for we are many.” 10 And he began to implore Him earnestly not to send them out of the country. 11 Now there was a large herd of swine feeding [b]nearby on the mountain. 12 The demons implored Him, saying, “Send us into the swine so that we may enter them.” 13 Jesus gave them permission. And coming out, the unclean spirits entered the swine; and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea, about two thousand of them; and they were drowned in the sea.

Country = G5561 - GK chora - a space lying between two places or limits
Root word =G5490 - GK chasma - a gaping opening, chasm, a gulf

Why wouldn't they want to be sent here? Who would be their host parasites that they are. Might take them awhile to find another? Anyway Jesus was casting them out and they asked Him to send them into the pigs instead. He basically said, OK and the pigs went crazy and killed themselves and the demons were left without a host. Pretty clever....Who knows where they went after that.
No where does it ever say that they had to ask permission to possess they were asking Him to change what He was going to do.

"Oh honey please, I have the credit card, don't drop me off at Walmart! Take me to Macy's!" Oh alright... Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Oh and by the way, I have been doing a little research on what the Jews believe about Gehenna. It appears there isn't much agreement at all. In one sect they believe there is fire there, some believe it's in the filament, some believe it's under the whole earth.

But it appears the most prevalent belief is that the unrighteous will go to Gehenna. However, the longest amount of time they can spend there is 12 mths, then they will be pure enough to enter Gan Eden.
Which may be why the RCC believes in pergatory.

 

[Vanguard]

Oh and by the way, I have been doing a little research on what the Jews believe about Gehenna. It appears there isn't much agreement at all. In one sect they believe there is fire there, some believe it's in the filament, some believe it's under the whole earth.

But it appears the most prevalent belief is that the unrighteous will go to Gehenna. However, the longest amount of time they can spend there is 12 mths, then they will be pure enough to enter Gan Eden.
Which may be why the RCC believes in pergatory.

Yes, just like with Christianity, there are divisions within Judaism. There's Orthodox Jews (who have some sub-divisions), Conservative Judaism, Reform Judaism, Reconstructionist Judaism, Humanistic Judaism, and Messianic Judaism who believe that Jesus was the Messiah. The differences may lie in a particular interpretation or doctrine, or be governed by which text a particular doctrine is based off of (the same with us, although our's become more complicated because of having to translate). Judaism and Christianity are not the only religions to have an idea of torment/purging by fire. The RCC more than likely did evolve their idea of Purgatory from Gehenna, considering Catholicism came after Judaism by way of Christ and Peter.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

How can God judge the dragon and his angels, condemning them to the lake of fire if He God were making them do what they do, wouldn't He be judging them for what He did?

satan and his angels were judged before this age that we are in now

The first earth age was the time spoken of in Genesis 1:1, II Peter 3, and Jeremiah 4:18 to the end of the chapter.

Mankind did not exist in the flesh, however the animal world did. It was far more expanded then what is common in this earth age. An example of this is in the elephant world, where there are three known species existing today, living in the world. In the first earth age, there were over thirty types that have been dug up.

All souls were created in the first earth age, and lived in what we call their soul bodies. The reason that we find no fossils today dating back beyond 6,000 to 10,000 years is because man did not exist in the flesh body. All souls were in existence then.

It was also in the first earth age that Satan, the most beautiful of all angels allowed his pride to overcome him, and the fall, of not only Satan came, but one third of all souls that existed then also fell.
This brought about the Fall of Satan, and the end of the first age. It is because of that fall, or "toho va boho" the destruction, where by all animals and living forms on earth came to an end.

8414 tohuw (to'-hoo); from an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; figuratively, a worthless thing; adverbially, in vain: KJV-- confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) naught, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.

922 bohuw (bo'-hoo); from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin: KJV-- emptiness, void.

Satan who was called Lucifer back then was a good guy and had great responsibilities given to him by God. But one day that all changed.

Isaiah 14:12-17
V12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

The name 'Lucifer' is Strong's 1966 and means heylel (hay-lale'); from 1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star.

Strong's number 1984 is a primitive root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence, to make a show, to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causatively, to celebrate; also to stultify.

The fall from heaven this is talking about happened in the first earth age. Lucifer use to be Satan's name but it was changed by God. For more information on his names see our Other names for Satan study. Lucifer is the fake morning star, Jesus Christ is the true morning Star.

Earlier in the thread, the name "Lucifer" was discussed briefly. It seemed pretty interesting about the Babylonian king:

Isaiah 14:12 possibly gives Satan’s pre-fall name as Lucifer.

Satan’s pride led to his fall. Notice the many “I will†statements in Isaiah 14:12-15.

Nope. The entire chapter 14 is talking about a Babylonian King (most likely Nebuchadnezzar II). See here: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=48379

The Wikipedia article, "Lucifer", mentions Nebuchadnezzar II, along with other possible identities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

 

[Guest]

Isaiah and Ezekiel are both talking about Satan. It's referring to his pride. Notice in Isaiah 14:13-14 says ascend into Heaven, be like the most high. This scripture is talking about the pride of Satan! Also notice in Ezekiel 28:12 and Ezekiel 28:15 says perfect in beauty and perfect in thy ways. They are talking about Lucifer.

Lucifer was the most glorified angel in Heaven before he sinned and fell from Heaven. Satan means 'resister' or 'opposer'. The word 'devil' means 'slanderer' and thus refers to someone who tells malicious lies about others. By rebelling, he made himself Satan/resister/opposer. Only after he willingly took a course of opposition and resistance to God was he called Satan. He, also being called 'Devil' is due to him slandering God's name..of which he told the first recorded 'LIE' in the bible at Genesis 3:4..

I think what scripture is saying here is that Satan ALWAYS had control of Babylon, spiritually. My question is, were these kings in Isaiah and Ezekiel human kings, Satan working in these human kings, or was it Satan himself. I think in Isaiah it was Satan working in the human king Nebuchadnezzar II here and Satan himself in Ezekiel, King of Tyre. I'm not sure about Tyre though, was the King of Tyre Satan himself or was he a human king.