Satan ...'saved' ...by Your Gospel Beliefs ?

[Jay T]

OK, Let's see if satan believes the same thing you do.

#1.) Does satan believe in Christ's, 'Death, Burial, and Resurrection' ?
Yes or No

#2.) Does satan believe in Christ's 2nd coming ?
Yes or No

#3.) Does satan know the Bible definition of Sin ?
Yes or No

 

[gingercat]

Yes to all of the three. He is very learned. He is just disobedient. Doesn't that sound familiar? Many of us have the Bible knowledge. We just don't like to be obedient.

 

[Jay T]

Yes to all of the three. He is very learned. He is just disobedient. Doesn't that sound familiar? Many of us have the Bible knowledge. We just don't like to be obedient.

OK, Now, we're getting into what James 2 says......
James 2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[gingercat]

Yes to all of the three. He is very learned. He is just disobedient. Doesn't that sound familiar? Many of us have the Bible knowledge. We just don't like to be obedient.

OK, Now, we're getting into what James 2 says......
James 2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Yes, they are all admonishments for us to be obedient to Him. Many of us want to ignore them.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

This is the exact problem with the church. It takes something and gets so off balance with it.

No, our works cannot save us. Salvation is only of Jesus. But does that mean we have no responsibiltity to act? Heavens no!

Works are a very important part of the covenant between us and the Redeemer.

We need to have balance in our theology and not get so turned around with one idea that we dismiss or talk around something that God is telling us.

This is the one area that is having this done today.

 

[Khristeeanos]

Revelation 20:10
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[wavy]

Hmmm...

Seems "works" are bad things then only when the topic is whether or not Torah commandments should be followed...

 

[Jay T]

Hmmm...

Seems "works" are bad things then only when the topic is whether or not Torah commandments should be followed...

That is only because satan has come as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14,15).....to present his version of the gospel, which men want to believe instead, of what God says.

 

[AVBunyan]

Hmmm...

Seems "works" are bad things then only when the topic is whether or not Torah commandments should be followed...

That is only because satan has come as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14,15).....to present his version of the gospel, which men want to believe instead, of what God says.

And what would that Gospel be Jay that is so satanic?

 

[Lyric's Dad]

The word "works" has become like a cuss word in today's church. People don't see though that works are still attached to salvation.

Repenting is a work. Exercising faith is a work. Living a good life and shunning the world is a work.

How many people here would use the Lord's name in vain just because they can? Well, that is following the commandments. How about trying not to hate? Not stealing? Etc?

Following the commands of God have always been the expectation.

When Jesus said He came to fulfill the law, He also said is was not abolished. He came to fulfill so it could be kept. Only through His perfection can the commands be met perfectly. We try the best we can but in the end, His grace perfects us.

 

[Solo]

Works for salvation is an error in understanding, works after salvation is predestined. Both are of God; salvation is of God not of works, after salvation works are from God dwelling in the saints, not of sinful man.

 

[bbas 64]

Good Day, All

Edwards has addressed this issue as have many others:

http://www.puritansermons.com/pdf/edwards1.pdf

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Works for salvation is an error in understanding, works after salvation is predestined. Both are of God; salvation is of God not of works, after salvation works are from God dwelling in the saints, not of sinful man.

I do not claim that works are FOR salvation. Salvation is only by and through the grace of Jesus Christ and NOTHING we could ever do could earn that. This of course does not at all lessen our responsiblity to do the works of God.


Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

John 8:39
They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

John 10:37
If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:22
And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 John 3:24
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.




I do not disagree that it is only through the atonement of Jesus Christ that any see life eternal but I also know that our deeds are an important part of our Christian life. God expects us to do the things of God, not just give them lipservice.

The most important work that He has given us is to love. Without it we are useless to Him. Our faith is therefore dead.

 

[Solo]

The only way to be saved is by God the Father drawing us to himself through his Son Jesus Christ by the work of God the Spirit. Whenever we are born of God's Spirit we become a new creature that is dragging around a sinful flesh. No good thing dwells in the flesh, and the only way that believers can live a life of love is by walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh. The only way God's truth can be interpreted correctly is when believers walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

Do not grieve the Holy Spirit by walking in the flesh. Don't believers know that they are sealed until the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit, and we will never see the wrath of God. Only those who are not saved will suffer the wrath of God.

The flesh sins but the inward man, the new creature born of God does not sin.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:9

 

[AVBunyan]

If a man believes he can lose his salvation or give it up in any way then he is trusting works to get him to glory for works are a part of his salvation - it won't work!

 

[Solo]

If a man believes he can lose his salvation or give it up in any way then he is trusting works to get him to glory for works are a part of his salvation - it won't work!

That is how I see it. Without salvation being the work of God, no man would be saved or kept.

 

[gingercat]

Everyone knows that we can not saved by works. But If we are saved, works have to come along. It is so simple logic. Why are so many churches having problems with the good deeds? When you fight so much against good works I can not help but wonder if you are really accepting Him as Lord too.

 

[guibox]

The word "works" has become like a cuss word in today's church. People don't see though that works are still attached to salvation.

Repenting is a work. Exercising faith is a work. Living a good life and shunning the world is a work.

How many people here would use the Lord's name in vain just because they can? Well, that is following the commandments. How about trying not to hate? Not stealing? Etc?

Following the commands of God have always been the expectation.

When Jesus said He came to fulfill the law, He also said is was not abolished. He came to fulfill so it could be kept. Only through His perfection can the commands be met perfectly. We try the best we can but in the end, His grace perfects us.

By golly, Lyric. That is the best explanation I have heard on this forum yet. You almost sound like an SDA! :D Actually, no. Even better than some. I post on a very conservative SDA forum and I said your last line too: "We try the best we can but in the end, His grace perfects us".

I nearly got stoned.

To them, we can keep ALL the commandments perfectly, and by the end of the age, God's people will NOT be sinning. If they do they will be lost.
Sounds great doesn't it? :roll:

Anyway, amen to your words!

 

[D46]

It seems it is possible to lose out with God according to scripture.

James 5:19-20 (KJV) Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Here, he is talking to believers-not infidels. Is it not very possible to have been in church all your life, get pulled away through desires of the flesh and abandon your relationship with God in favor of feeding those desires...whatever that may entail? I think so.

James 5:19
Err from the truth; depart from the faith and practice of the gospel. Convert him; turn him from his error to the belief and practice of truth and duty. Brethren in Christ who turn aside from the path of truth and duty, must be brought into it again, or they will perish; and he who, from love to Christ and to them, is instrumental in doing this, and thus saving their souls from death and hiding a multitude of sins, will be hailed by them as an everlasting benefactor.

From death: eternal death, unto which he was hastening while he continued in the error of his way, which led him toward destruction.

You either can loose your salvation through your own self or there is truth in the OSAS gospel. Both are mutually exclusive.

 

[Klee shay]

Hi JayT :D

James 2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Can faith save him; James asks - but does he answer with a yes or no?

Even so - he goes on - in other words, 'inspite of the fact I provide you with no answer, let me make the point about faith and works'. I don't believe James was saying whether faith alone or faith plus works was salvation - he begged to ask the question however to make a point.

What was that point? Faith without works is dead. Since he didn't answer whether Faith will save him or not; do we know that dead faith means no salvation?

James was very eloquent in making a very good point. Yes indeed, faith without works is dead. He failed to answer however whether dead faith for a lack of work - but faith in Jesus nonetheless; still meant salvation. He wanted to inspire people to get out there and start using their faith to perform great works - but even today with Jesus written in our hearts; he inspires us to do works on an everyday basis. That doesn't mean we will all do amazing things. It is the heart which must work however; and maybe that is what James was trying to say.

Works without faith was considered exactly the same as faith without works. So was he saying that we must work to prove our faith, or was he saying that we must reconcile the heart in how we believe and act?

Just my thoughts. :wink: