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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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savedbygrace57
Guest
prentis
More false Teaching. Those Christ died for were reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,
Says nothing about reconciliation being made possible, that is a downright lie !
More false Teaching. Those Christ died for were reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,
Says nothing about reconciliation being made possible, that is a downright lie !
2bfoundinhim
Member
And to go one step further on the Reconciliation,
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
If God doesn't impute sin anymore, because of His Son, then why do we?
Why do we even still talk about sin anymore. When we should be talking about Reconciliation to the World. This is the Good News
Blessings
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
If God doesn't impute sin anymore, because of His Son, then why do we?
Why do we even still talk about sin anymore. When we should be talking about Reconciliation to the World. This is the Good News
Blessings
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
And to go one step further on the Reconciliation,
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
If God doesn't impute sin anymore, because of His Son, then why do we?
Why do we even still talk about sin anymore. When we should be talking about Reconciliation to the World. This is the Good News
Blessings
The world there cannot be everyone without exception, simply because Christ states that some will die in their sins as unbelievers Jn 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
And Jesus has confirmed that some believe not on Him because they are not of His Sheep Jn 10:26
26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
So not all men's sins without exception were not imputed to them, for they shall die in their sins !
farouk
Member
Ephesians 2 states that salvation is by grace through faith, not of works (often quoted).
The chapter also says that believers are God workmanship, as those who are created in Christ Jesus unto good works, previously ordained by God for them to walk in.
Two important aspects and the chapter deals with both.
The chapter also says that believers are God workmanship, as those who are created in Christ Jesus unto good works, previously ordained by God for them to walk in.
Two important aspects and the chapter deals with both.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
far
Thats right, but many deny that Truth, and say that people are saved by works, something they do !
Thats right, but many deny that Truth, and say that people are saved by works, something they do !
2bfoundinhim
Member
Dear SavedbyGrace:
I don't understand where your coming from, it's sounds like you have a double tongue here. In an earlier post to prentis you say this:
prentis:
The sinner must do something - it's called repent!
SavedbyGrace: (Quote)
Thats works Salvation.Listen to yourself, the sinner must do something to get saved ! You flat out deny that what Christ did saves a sinner..
I assume your speaking against the sinner having to do something to be saved, that its totally by Grace, "This I agree with".
But here you say: (Quote)
Thats right, but many deny that Truth, and say that people are saved by works, something they do !
2
I hate to tell you this but this is also a choice, by what your saying. And according to this standard of judgement
I don't think you understand, that if,.. to choose Him is a work
Then Denying Him or Truth as you say,.... is also a work on the sinners part.
You can't have it both ways, If it is totally by Grace, which I think your saying you believe, (and not by choice or works on our part) then how can the sinner have a choice of denying the Truth if Grace has not been given to them to know the Truth?
Or Repentance has not been Granted to them?
God is the one who opens the ears to hear, and prepares the heart to recieve, not man. If we are not capable of making a choice for God, then we are also not capable of denying either.
Joh 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Joh 5:21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneththem;even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
I don't understand where your coming from, it's sounds like you have a double tongue here. In an earlier post to prentis you say this:
prentis:
The sinner must do something - it's called repent!
SavedbyGrace: (Quote)
Thats works Salvation.Listen to yourself, the sinner must do something to get saved ! You flat out deny that what Christ did saves a sinner..
I assume your speaking against the sinner having to do something to be saved, that its totally by Grace, "This I agree with".
But here you say: (Quote)
Thats right, but many deny that Truth, and say that people are saved by works, something they do !
2I hate to tell you this but this is also a choice, by what your saying. And according to this standard of judgement
I don't think you understand, that if,.. to choose Him is a work
Then Denying Him or Truth as you say,.... is also a work on the sinners part.
You can't have it both ways, If it is totally by Grace, which I think your saying you believe, (and not by choice or works on our part) then how can the sinner have a choice of denying the Truth if Grace has not been given to them to know the Truth?
Or Repentance has not been Granted to them?
God is the one who opens the ears to hear, and prepares the heart to recieve, not man. If we are not capable of making a choice for God, then we are also not capable of denying either.
Joh 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Joh 5:21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneththem;even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
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S
savedbygrace57
Guest
2bf
Correct, Christ did it all ! Christ saves sinners from their sins, they do not do anything !
A Person is not lost because of their work. Yes, unbelief is an evil work ! But you making this point does nothing against the fact, that if one is saved because of something they did, then that constitutes a work salvation, which is flat out denial of scripture. Eph 2:8-9
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Correct, Christ did it all ! Christ saves sinners from their sins, they do not do anything !
A Person is not lost because of their work. Yes, unbelief is an evil work ! But you making this point does nothing against the fact, that if one is saved because of something they did, then that constitutes a work salvation, which is flat out denial of scripture. Eph 2:8-9
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
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2bfoundinhim
Member
Just to be clear on something up front I do not believe anyone can do anything to earn salvation, or attain it. It comes only through God's Grace.
I thought I made that clear in my post.
But I also don't believe that man can choose to deny the Truth either.
I thought I made that clear too.
The point is it is not up to us, it is up to God who does according as He wills and for His Good pleasure.
When you quote this scripture, do actually think that it's our faith and His Grace?
It's not you know.
It's His Grace and His Faith in us, that causes us to believe, for without both we have no choice .
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
2bf
Well I don't care what you say, I do not believe you !
I agree with that statement, but unfortunatley you do not believe it, you just think you do ! It, Salvation by Grace means Salvation is by Election of Grace Rom 11:5-6
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Paul clearly see's salvation by grace without works synonymous with Election of Grace !
Man cannot deny or stop or prevent God from saving him by His Grace ! Thats foolish talk !
I cannot argue with that !
No, I never said that at all ! In fact my presentations have proved that Faith is not of ourselves, it too is the Gift of God, so you have not even understood what I have posted !
There is no choice for man to make in his salvation, the choice is of God ! That is why they are called God's Elect.
by you all the sudden bringing man's choice into the equation, you just denied all what you said, and again contribute salvation to man's choice, which is works !
Well I don't care what you say, I do not believe you !
I agree with that statement, but unfortunatley you do not believe it, you just think you do ! It, Salvation by Grace means Salvation is by Election of Grace Rom 11:5-6
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Paul clearly see's salvation by grace without works synonymous with Election of Grace !
Man cannot deny or stop or prevent God from saving him by His Grace ! Thats foolish talk !
I cannot argue with that !
No, I never said that at all ! In fact my presentations have proved that Faith is not of ourselves, it too is the Gift of God, so you have not even understood what I have posted !
There is no choice for man to make in his salvation, the choice is of God ! That is why they are called God's Elect.
by you all the sudden bringing man's choice into the equation, you just denied all what you said, and again contribute salvation to man's choice, which is works !
2bfoundinhim
Member
I'm sorry SbG, I didn't mean to get off on the wrong foot with you.
I think if you could answer just one question then maybe it will clear this whole thing up, at least between us.
Do you believe that those that "died in their sins" (which I think was your very first reply to me) those that Jesus said this to.
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
And many did die in their sins, I agree.
Was Grace through faith given to them to believe?
I think if you could answer just one question then maybe it will clear this whole thing up, at least between us.
Do you believe that those that "died in their sins" (which I think was your very first reply to me) those that Jesus said this to.
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
And many did die in their sins, I agree.
Was Grace through faith given to them to believe?
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
2bfound
I never hear of that before, that is a strange doctrine to me.
But those Christ died for are given grace inorder to believe, so they believe through grace Acts 18:27
27And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
I never hear of that before, that is a strange doctrine to me.
But those Christ died for are given grace inorder to believe, so they believe through grace Acts 18:27
27And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
2bfoundinhim
Member
It's not a doctrine, it was a question, and since I see that you are not understanding me, and me you, then I will end here.
Blessings
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
2bf
And i answered it.
And i answered it.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
It [Salvation] is not of him that willeth !
Rom 9:12-16
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
It cannot be made more plainer that Salvation is not the result of human will or exertion or effort, all of which equals works ! The word willeth here is the greek word:thelō:
to will, have in mind, intend
a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose
b) to desire, to wish
c) to love
1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing
d) to take delight in, have pleasure
This word implies volition which means:
the act of willing, choosing, or resolving; exercise of willing:
a choice or decision made by the will.
Now how many false teachers and preachers have stated man must make a decision or choice to get saved ? Its countless millions !
They appeal to such passages as Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
or Isa 1:18-19
18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Both of which applied to the Covenant Nation of Israel, and had nothing to do with Gospel Promises !
Paul goes on and writes in Rom 9:16 nor is it of him that runneth ! This word runneth is the greek word trechō:
to run
a) of persons in haste
b) of those who run in a race course
2) metaph.
a) of doctrine rapidly propagated
b) by a metaphor taken from runners in a race, to exert one's self, strive hard
c) to spend one's strength in performing or attaining something
d) word occurs in Greek writings denoting to incur extreme peril, which it requires the exertion of all one's effort to overcome
Salvation is not a result of one's performing, or striving.
Jesus did not mean that one is saved from the penalty of their sins by striving to enter in when He said:
Lk 13:24
Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Nor did Paul mean one can run as to win the prize of Salvation, as though it depended on man 1 Cor 9:24
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
But the Gift of Salvation which is by Grace is not obtained by him that runneth Rom 9:16.
All these terms, running, willing or choosing, striving denotes man's efforts , man's works, actions or deeds..
So if a man says that he is saved by his freewill, then he is saying that he is saved by his own works, exertion, and it is impossible to escape this conclusion. Such teaching contradicts what scripture teaches in so many places such as Rom 9:16
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
One is saved solely by God's Mercy ! Titus 3:5
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
And God's Mercy is discriminatory Rom 9:18
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Which is based on His Election 9:11
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )
Which was determined beforehand Rom 9:23
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
The Mercy here is not a mere offer of Mercy, but it is an Sovereign Application of Mercy, experimental Mercy according to God's Sovereign will on the afore prepared vessels of mercy !
Rom 9:12-16
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
It cannot be made more plainer that Salvation is not the result of human will or exertion or effort, all of which equals works ! The word willeth here is the greek word:thelō:
to will, have in mind, intend
a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose
b) to desire, to wish
c) to love
1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing
d) to take delight in, have pleasure
This word implies volition which means:
the act of willing, choosing, or resolving; exercise of willing:
a choice or decision made by the will.
Now how many false teachers and preachers have stated man must make a decision or choice to get saved ? Its countless millions !
They appeal to such passages as Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
or Isa 1:18-19
18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Both of which applied to the Covenant Nation of Israel, and had nothing to do with Gospel Promises !
Paul goes on and writes in Rom 9:16 nor is it of him that runneth ! This word runneth is the greek word trechō:
to run
a) of persons in haste
b) of those who run in a race course
2) metaph.
a) of doctrine rapidly propagated
b) by a metaphor taken from runners in a race, to exert one's self, strive hard
c) to spend one's strength in performing or attaining something
d) word occurs in Greek writings denoting to incur extreme peril, which it requires the exertion of all one's effort to overcome
Salvation is not a result of one's performing, or striving.
Jesus did not mean that one is saved from the penalty of their sins by striving to enter in when He said:
Lk 13:24
Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Nor did Paul mean one can run as to win the prize of Salvation, as though it depended on man 1 Cor 9:24
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
But the Gift of Salvation which is by Grace is not obtained by him that runneth Rom 9:16.
All these terms, running, willing or choosing, striving denotes man's efforts , man's works, actions or deeds..
So if a man says that he is saved by his freewill, then he is saying that he is saved by his own works, exertion, and it is impossible to escape this conclusion. Such teaching contradicts what scripture teaches in so many places such as Rom 9:16
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
One is saved solely by God's Mercy ! Titus 3:5
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
And God's Mercy is discriminatory Rom 9:18
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Which is based on His Election 9:11
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )
Which was determined beforehand Rom 9:23
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
The Mercy here is not a mere offer of Mercy, but it is an Sovereign Application of Mercy, experimental Mercy according to God's Sovereign will on the afore prepared vessels of mercy !
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
When it is said Salvation is by Grace through Faith, that means every phase of it is of Grace, with no contribution of man at all, except as the passive recipient. Here are some of the elements of Salvation that are of Grace:
Election is of Grace Rom 11:5-6
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
In order for election to be of Grace, it can never take in for consideration the performance of the one elected, thats works ! Rom 9:11
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )
Justification is by Grace Rom 3:24
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Titus 3:7
7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Sanctified by Grace Jn 17:19
And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Eph 5:25-26
25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Believers were even sanctified before the world began Jude 1:
1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
New Birth or Regeneration is by Grace Eph 2:5-6
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
The word quickened is the greek word syzōopoieō and means:
to make one alive together
a) of Christians, with Christ
This word derives it's meaning from the word zōopoieō which means:
to produce alive, begat or bear living young
2) to cause to live, make alive, give life
a) by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate
b) to restore to life
c) to give increase of life: thus of physical life
d) of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life
Hence the New Birth is of Grace !
The believer believed by Grace Acts 18:27
27And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
Repentance is by Grace ! Acts 5:31
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 11:18
18When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
2 Tim 2:25
25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
Glorification is by Grace 1 Pet 1:13
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
Whatever pertains to Salvation, whether one being saved is passive or active, its all by Grace !
Election is of Grace Rom 11:5-6
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
In order for election to be of Grace, it can never take in for consideration the performance of the one elected, thats works ! Rom 9:11
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )
Justification is by Grace Rom 3:24
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Titus 3:7
7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Sanctified by Grace Jn 17:19
And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Eph 5:25-26
25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Believers were even sanctified before the world began Jude 1:
1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
New Birth or Regeneration is by Grace Eph 2:5-6
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
The word quickened is the greek word syzōopoieō and means:
to make one alive together
a) of Christians, with Christ
This word derives it's meaning from the word zōopoieō which means:
to produce alive, begat or bear living young
2) to cause to live, make alive, give life
a) by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate
b) to restore to life
c) to give increase of life: thus of physical life
d) of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life
Hence the New Birth is of Grace !
The believer believed by Grace Acts 18:27
27And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
Repentance is by Grace ! Acts 5:31
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 11:18
18When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
2 Tim 2:25
25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
Glorification is by Grace 1 Pet 1:13
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
Whatever pertains to Salvation, whether one being saved is passive or active, its all by Grace !
Jethro Bodine
Member
This does not teach us that you do not have to want to be saved, or that you don't have to pursue salvation.
What this means is, ultimately, a person is saved because God had mercy on them-period. The actual agent of salvation is the fact that God forgives a person. All the will, and all the running is not what saves a person, but rather the simple fact that God forgives. But that does not remove the necessity of wanting that forgiveness, or running after that forgiveness. But even to possess the ability to will and to run is because God has removed the obstacles to doing that, therefore there is no boast possible in that.
It is by God's grace that we are both saved through forgiveness, and have the capacity to even want that forgiveness. But that hardly means we are not 'to will and to do' that which we do in order to be saved.
The remnant he refers to is a remnant of the Jews, so the works he refers to are the works of the law.
The word 'grace' means 'good will'. Grace can stand for many things; 'forbearance' for instance. It can also stand for kindness, mercy, forgiveness, pardon, beauty. Here Paul is saying if it is God's good will or grace to show them mercy, then it is no longer because they keep the law. If it was because they keep the law, then it would not be grace. For a worker deserves his wages. However his forbearance is still through Jesus Christ. Those who believe in him will be saved.
Saying that is not saying anything more than it is God's kindness, his will. It is God's kingdom afterall. So what's your point? If it is through Christ, then I agree. God's goodwill encompasses everything he promised through Jesus Christ. ie. eternal life.
But do not test God's forbearance. God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance. Romans 2:4
And, 'Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.' Rom. 11:22 Yeah. He is talking to the elect as well.
'What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?' James 2:14 Here James is talking about work and faith. I suppose you would argue with James that if it is by grace then it can not be by works. But the work James is talking about is the work of the gospel - do unto others, love God, follow Jesus, keep his commandments.
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elijah23
Guest
When we behave ourselves, we are not riddled with guilt. So even though the Lord forgives us for our sins, it is better to repent of our sin, since the Lord will allow us to suffer enough to be aware that he wants us to stop sinning.
You know there were maidens who were shut out because they didn't keep their candles lit?
However I understand SBG. Jesus will lose none of his sheep.
I would agree the calling is not works based. But if works don't count, then it really doesn't matter to the one who works if his works don't count for anything. He is in the same place as you - saved by grace. Then again Jesus said 'keep my commandments' and Paul said, 'Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!' 1 Cor. 9:16 And also he said we would receive a reward for building our house with silver, and gold, and jewels. 1 Cor. 3:14 And James said, 'be doers of the word, not just hearers.' James 1:22
I don't know what you hope to gain by your teaching, if your teaching, which is your work, counts for nothing. Is your work all for nothing? According to you, work doesn't save. So why are you working? Why are you working and at the same time telling others their work doesn't count?
I know in the end we are in God's hand, and I agree, no one can change that.
However I understand SBG. Jesus will lose none of his sheep.
I would agree the calling is not works based. But if works don't count, then it really doesn't matter to the one who works if his works don't count for anything. He is in the same place as you - saved by grace. Then again Jesus said 'keep my commandments' and Paul said, 'Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!' 1 Cor. 9:16 And also he said we would receive a reward for building our house with silver, and gold, and jewels. 1 Cor. 3:14 And James said, 'be doers of the word, not just hearers.' James 1:22
I don't know what you hope to gain by your teaching, if your teaching, which is your work, counts for nothing. Is your work all for nothing? According to you, work doesn't save. So why are you working? Why are you working and at the same time telling others their work doesn't count?
I know in the end we are in God's hand, and I agree, no one can change that.