Bible Study Saved by Grace Through Faith, Not by Works #1

[JLB]

There is nothing that reading in context will do to eliminate Paul's statements of fact. That much is certain. It's more of a question of who wants to "own up" to the facts.

The facts of truth are plainly stated for all to see.

Those who walk after the flesh, to practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24

Why would you think that after we are given all things that pertain to life and godliness, that we have no power from God to live Victorious godly lives, pleasing to God.

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 2 Peter 1:2-4

His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness,...

If we do sin, then we confess our sin, and He is faithful to forgive us.


As baby Christians, who are learning to walk with God, learning what the scriptures teach, there is much mercy and kindness from God to overlook the many faults and sins we commit, as a father doesn't expect a baby to do anything but cry and crap, and make a mess.

However, when that child grows up and has been taught what the father expects, that child is held more and more accountable, in which the father does indeed correct the child he loves.

Likewise our heavenly Father loves us and corrects us, and also warns us over and over throughout the scriptures and also pleading with us by His Spirit that lives within us, not to love the world or the things of this world, but to love righteousness, and do what is right.

If we who have been given His divine nature and been empowered with His Spirit, choose to ignore the leading and guiding of His spirit, as well as what the scriptures teach, and continue to practice the works of the flesh, living immoral, ungodly lives, then we can expect to eat the fruit of own own way.

There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death. Proverbs 14:12

Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”? James 4:4-5


Please stop ignoring what the scriptures say, but read the whole counsel of God, and stop taking a verse out of context, and mixing idiomatic phrases together with literal phrases, to form your own doctrine.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16

If you walk in the flesh, you will become a slave to sin.

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16


JLB

 

[JLB]

There is nothing that reading in context will do to eliminate Paul's statements of fact. That much is certain. It's more of a question of who wants to "own up" to the facts.

Here is the facts:

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. James 4:7


JLB

 

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Here is the facts:

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. James 4:7

JLB

It's always a shame when believers don't recognize, as Paul did, that they do works that are both good and evil, which should be simple common sense. Common sense and being honest to scripture has departed any who make such claims, that they do not do evil or they do not SIN.

IF believers can't stand in Paul's own shoes making the SAME CLAIMS Paul did, they are simply not following the 'truthful' narratives that Paul laid out for himself, and us in the process.

We do live by every Word of God. Even the Words we run from and insulate ourselves from. Light is meant to be against the works of darkness that we DO have to be cast off.

Romans 13:12
The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

When we say we don't have these we are not telling the truth.

Paul told the truth, and in that he demonstrates the fruit of HONESTY.


Romans 7:
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

1 Timothy 1:
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

It is the SAME honesty demonstrated by the publican here, and God BLESSED HIM for it and JUSTIFIED him for it:

Luke 18:
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Many who think they are following Jesus do not follow Him to HIS conclusions.

 

[JLB]

It's always a shame when believers don't recognize, as Paul did, that they do works that are both good and evil, which should be simple common sense.

Please show the scriptures that teach us it is somehow "ok" to do works of evil.

IF believers can't stand in Paul's own shoes making the SAME CLAIMS Paul did, they are simply not following the 'truthful' narratives that Paul laid out for himself, and us in the process.

Here is what Paul taught:

6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16


12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13


9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10


16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21


And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24


God has given all things that pertain to life and godliness.

Those who practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.

If you walk in the Spirit, you will not practice the works of the flesh.


Those are Paul's words, that can not be denied.


You have been shown over and over where you err in your "interpretation's" of many scriptures which causes you to ignore the plain words that Paul taught us.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Luke 18:
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Many who think they are following Jesus do not follow Him to HIS conclusions.

Yes when we come to Jesus this is the attitude we are to have before Him.


Do you think this is somehow a license to sin, and obey unrighteousness?



JLB

 

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Please show the scriptures that teach us it is somehow "ok" to do works of evil.

Never said it was. But the most obvious thing to consider about works is what Paul said. Not our ideas and conjurings about how those statements of fact were not true for him and are likewise true for us.

We are not better than Paul.

 

[JLB]

Romans 7:
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Yes there is sin within our flesh, that is why we are to crucify our flesh, and by the Spirit put to death it's sinful deeds.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. James 4:7

We have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Never said it was. But the most obvious thing to consider about works is what Paul said. Not our ideas and conjurings about how those statements of fact were not true for him and are likewise true for us.

We are not better than Paul.

Paul taught us these things:

6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sinleading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16


12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13


9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10


16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21


And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24



JLB

 

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Paul taught us these things:

6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

Please by all means don't stop at vs. 8:

Romans 2:9
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Romans 7:
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Let's not dance past the obvious.

 

[JLB]

Romans 2:9
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Yes, can you see that those of us who are Christians who does evil, is within the consideration of "every soul".

Your doctrine says that we are somehow forced to do evil and are helpless to fight it's lustful desires.

This is not biblical.

God has given all things that pertain to life and godliness.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21


And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24

Those who practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.

If you walk in the Spirit, you will not practice the works of the flesh.


JLB

 

[smaller]

Yes, can you see that those of us who are Christians who does evil, is within the consideration of "every soul".

Your doctrine says that we are somehow forced to do evil and are helpless to fight it's lustful desires.

It's not "my" doctrine. Jesus said evil is an internal matter and having evil as an internal matter is NOT an option. So did Paul.

Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20, Mark 7:21-23, Romans 7:7-13 & 19-21

And so did God, here:

Deuteronomy 30:15
See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

This is not biblical.

The conjecture you are trying won't work.

 

[JLB]

Romans 7:
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Let's not dance past the obvious.

I see you are back to taking a verse out of context and ignoring the rest of what Paul said about this matter.

For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

But I see another law.... Paul discovered that he had to be proactive, in suppressing the desires of the sin within his flesh, and taught us to do the same...by the Spirit.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Paul had discovered that under the law, though he desired to do good, he was powerless against the evil contained within his flesh...

Here is his conclusion - Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


Here is the full context:

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.


12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 7:18-8:13


The answer is to not allow the deeds of the flesh to manifest, by putting them to death, by the Spirit.

He tells the Galatians this same thing -

And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16


Paul makes it clear to them and to us, the consequences of practicing the works of the flesh.


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21



JLB

 

[JLB]

It's not "my" doctrine. Jesus said evil is an internal matter and having evil as an internal matter is NOT an option. So did Paul.

Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20, Mark 7:21-23, Romans 7:7-13 & 19-21

And so did God, here:

Deuteronomy 30:15
See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

The flesh is not internal.

And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16


JLB

 

[JLB]

It's not "my" doctrine. Jesus said evil is an internal matter and having evil as an internal matter is NOT an option. So did Paul.

Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20, Mark 7:21-23, Romans 7:7-13 & 19-21

And so did God, here:

Deuteronomy 30:15
See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;


The conjecture you are trying won't work.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21


JLB

 

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19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

JLB

It is a very common thing for "works" salvation proponents to avoid the scriptural facts that evil is internal and present within us.

Romans 7:21, Heb. 10:22

This 'stains' any 'work' that we do. Gal. 5:17 and makes any of our own supposed "righteousness" like filthy rags that they are.

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthyrags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.