Bible Study Saved by Grace Through Faith, Not by Works #1

[JLB]

And because YOU are trusting in FAITH instead of JESUS to save you, you cant grasp that salvation is not kept by Faith, but rather you are Kept SAVED...= by GOD and CHRIST.

Does Jesus do the believing for us, or do we have to believe to be saved?




JLB

 

[JLB]

This is the means that God uses to put you "in Christ", when you believe.

How does this process work when a person no longer believes?


JLB

 

[JLB]

And because YOU are trusting in FAITH instead of JESUS to save you,

Please explain how having faith in Christ [present tense] is having faith in, or trusting in your faith?


JLB

 

[Kidron]

Does Jesus do the believing for us, or do we have to believe to be saved?




JLB

-
You are getting warmer.

WE give God our Faith ONCE, and He Gives us Eternal Life = Instantly.
WE dont maintain Eternal Life, we are maintained by it, based on the fact that Jesus IS Eternal Life and we have by Salvation literally become a part of Him and He in us. (Christ in you the hope of Glory) ( we are IN Christ).
Salvation literally Joins us To Jesus eternally..... because we have become "bone of His bones and flesh of His flesh".
Redemption is a completed and eternal situation....its not a part time or temporary remedy.
God puts us INTO CHRIST, literally, "the body of Christ", the instant we give him Faith (Trust)....= (Born again)
So that is a completed situation (Redemption) that cant be changed.... as GOD does this and not our Faith.
Our Faith only RELEASES God to complete our Salvation.
Salvation is not temporary, its eternal, because God and Christ finish it for us.

Hebrews 12:2
Philippians 1:6

 

[JLB]

WE give God our Faith ONCE, and He Gives us Eternal Life = Instantly.

Please post the scripture that teaches this?

WE dont maintain Eternal Life, we are maintained by it, based on the fact that Jesus IS Eternal Life and we have by Salvation literally become a part of Him and He in us. (Christ in you the hope of Glory) ( we are IN Christ).

Those who have Him,[present tense] have Eternal life.

Here's the condition: Remain, Abide, Continue.

• If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

• Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 1 John 2:24

• Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9

• Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.1 John 3:24

This word abide contains all the meaning and is synonymous with what we have taught here about this subject:

• Continually: We are told to continue in the faith.

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

• Not to depart: we are told those who depart from Him, are no longer "in Him"... No longer a partaker of Him. No longer have Him.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 1 Timothy 4:1-2

Abide - Strong's G3306 - menō

1. to remain, abide
   
   1. in reference to place
      
      1. to sojourn, tarry
         
         
      2. not to depart
         
         1. to continue to be present
            
            
         2. to be held, kept, continually
            
   2. in reference to time
      
      1. to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure
         
         1. of persons, to survive, live
            
   3. in reference to state or condition
      
      1. to remain as one, not to become another or different
         
2. to wait for, await one
   

All the things you deny that we as a believer, a person who has faith in Jesus Christ, are told to do by the scriptures....
claiming that those who hold fast to the Gospel we first believed, are "trying to save themselves".


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9


JLB

 

[Kidron]

Please post the scripture that teaches this?


JLB

-
"Born Again", is what happens when we "give God our faith ONCE.
Isnt that obvious?
Faith (once) = Born Again (forever).

 

[JLB]

-
"Born Again", is what happens when we "give God our faith ONCE.
Isnt that obvious?
Faith (once) = Born Again (forever).

180 degrees Backwards.

We don't give God our faith.

God gives us faith, when we hear His word.

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

That's why I started by asking you what faith is.

It was then when you made up your own definition of faith, rather than stating what the bibles defines for us, faith is, that I exposed where your doctrine comes from: Your own understanding, rather than acknowledging what God says faith is.

Now we find that your doctrine is 180 degrees backwards, from the scriptures, claiming that we give God our faith, rather than, God giving us faith.


It's no wonder you argue with every scripture Jethro and myself give, about this subject, and how we are to continue in our faith, and continue believing, and continue holding fast the word of the Gospel, the word of faith that we first heard and believed.

It all comes from your "own" understanding.


Those who have Him,[present tense] have Eternal life.

Here's the condition: Remain, Abide, Continue.

• If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

• Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 1 John 2:24

• Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9

• Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.1 John 3:24

This word abide contains all the meaning and is synonymous with what we have taught here about this subject:

• Continually: We are told to continue in the faith.

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith,grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

• Not to depart: we are told those who depart from Him, are no longer "in Him"... No longer a partaker of Him. No longer have Him.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief indeparting from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 1 Timothy 4:1-2


JLB

 

[Kidron]

180 degrees Backwards.

We don't give God our faith.

JLB

-
Faith is trust.
"for as many as BELIEVE", = God redeems, (as soon as they BELIEVE).
This is why Jesus said to them..."IF you can believe <><>THEN<><> all things are possible to those that Believe".
Thats not Jesus believing for you, or He would not have told you to do it.
So,.... any other scriptures you need to twist today, JLB?
Something tells me you are not quite finished yet.

 

[JLB]

-
Faith is trust.
"for as many as BELIEVE", = God redeems, (as soon as they BELIEVE).
This is why Jesus said to them..."IF you can believe <><>THEN<><> all things are possible to those that Believe".
Thats not Jesus believing for you, or He would not have told you to do it.
So,.... any other scriptures you need to twist today, JLB?
Something tells me you are not quite finished yet.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

Faith is a noun.
Faith is divine substance.
Faith comes from God, when you hear Him.


More of your own understanding.

I guess that's why you think we give faith to God, rather than the other way around.

WE give God our Faith ONCE, and He Gives us Eternal Life = Instantly.

Please show the scripture, from the bible, your your opinion.


JLB

 

[smaller]

Jesus told us to say we are unprofitable servants/

Nope. Jesus didn't say we are unprofitable servants.

Uh, yeah. I think I see the hearing problem.

 

[JLB]

Uh, yeah. I think I see the hearing problem.

Glad you finally admitted, you understand the difference.

Hopefully you also see the difference between, a non literal saying, and a literal saying, so you don't keep mixing the two together.


JLB

 

[smaller]

Glad you finally admitted, you understand the difference.

Hopefully you also see the difference between, a non literal saying, and a literal saying, so you don't keep mixing the two together.

JLB

Some hear a lot. Some hear in part. Some can't hear whatsoever. That's how God set the system of hearing His Words.

Mark 4:24

 

[JLB]

Some hear a lot. Some hear in part. Some can't hear whatsoever. That's how God set the system of hearing His Words.

Mark 4:24

Some mix together that which is non-literal with that which is literal... which I suppose comes from not being able to read, or rather not understanding what is written.

Paul called it not rightly diving the word.

Example:

Nope. Jesus didn't say we are unprofitable servants.

He said to for us to say, after we have done what we are told: we are unprofitable servants only doing what we are told.

6 So the Lord said, “If you have faith as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be pulled up by the roots and be planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you. 7 And which of you, having a servant plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and sit down to eat’? 8 But will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare something for my supper, and gird yourself and serve me till I have eaten and drunk, and afterward you will eat and drink’? 9 Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not.10 So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.’” Luke 17:6-10

Jesus said to obey what we are told to do.

When we have obeyed what we have been commanded to do, we are to say, We have done what was our duty to do.

Taking the position that we did what we were told to do, not that we ourselves originated this work, but rather we, in and of ourselves are unprofitable servants, we only did what we were commanded to do, which is the definition of faith.

Unprofitable servants who do not do [disobedience] what they are told or entrusted to do is an entirely different position.

Jesus didn't call the ones who did what He commanded them to do: Unprofitable servants.

He told them to say this about themselves, AFTER, they had obeyed and done what they were commanded to do.

This is the way He wanted His Apostles to represent Him, and His Kingdom. HUMILITY. FAITHFULNESS. HONOR

• We have done what was our duty to do... - "we are unprofitable servants" = Humility

Verses -

• Not doing what they were told to do... - then making excuses - unprofitable servant = Rebellion

Matthew 25 -

24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you havewhat is yours.’

26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

These were called unprofitable servants by Jesus.


JLB

 

[smaller]

Some mix together that which is non-literal with that which is literal... which I suppose comes from not being able to read, or rather not understanding what is written.

Paul called it not rightly diving the word.

JLB

All of Gods Word is Spiritually literal and applicable to every believer. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4

The difficulties we all tend to have with reading about works is that we never seem to be able to realize that we all have works both good and evil. It's not a one way only subject if we are honest. It's exceptionally difficult to find believers who are honest about their own evil works. Believers are in denial on this side of the coin by their flesh natures.

 

[JLB]

All of Gods Word is Spiritually literal and applicable to every believer. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4

The difficulties we all tend to have with reading about works is that we never seem to be able to realize that we all have works both good and evil. It's not a one way only subject if we are honest. It's exceptionally difficult to find believers who are honest about their own evil works. Believers are in denial on this side of the coin by their flesh natures.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

Those who do evil, and sin, are of the devil.

He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

Those who practice evil and live sinful lives, after they have been given the Spirit of Grace, are likened to the earth that drinks in the water, and produces thorns and briers, in which it is god for nothing but to be burned.

• Grace is God power given to you, unmerited, [unearned] for you to have the ability to accomplish that which you could not, without it.
• Grace is the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of Grace.
• Grace empowers us to have victory over the sin nature, as well as the devil who empowers it.

The new born again nature, is empowered by the Spirit of God to overcome sin, and the devil through the faith we have been given.
He has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness.

To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 2 Peter 1:1-4


Having been given these thing's that empowers us to live godly lives, by which we overcome the corruption that is in the world through lust... if we live our lives practicing the works of the flesh, and obey unrighteousness, though we have all things that pertain to life and godliness, then we are likened to the earth that drinks in the rain, and produces thorn and thistles, and briers, in which it is good for nothing but to be burned.


4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. Hebrews 6:4-8



JLB

 

[smaller]

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

Those who do evil, and sin, are of the devil.

That's why I like Paul. He was honest:

Romans 7:
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

I tend to start any scriptural discourses with works on the above scriptural bed to see how honest others might be, OR if they are simply in denial of and delusional over the obvious.

 

[JLB]

That's why I like Paul. He was honest:

Romans 7:
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

I tend to start any scriptural discourses with works on the above scriptural bed to see how honest others might be, OR if they are simply in denial of and delusional over the obvious.

I guess you didn't keep reading:

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:6

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

• I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16

• And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:7-8

• He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
• He who sins is of the devil.

Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 2 Peter 1:2-4


Thank God for the Holy Spirit, who empowers to live Victorious Lives.


His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness.



JLB

 

[smaller]

I guess you didn't keep reading:

I don't read scriptures to try to eliminate other scriptures. That's a very poor methodology.

 

[JLB]

I don't read scriptures to try to eliminate other scriptures. That's a very poor methodology.

...as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue. 2 Peter 1:3

His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness...

Do you believe this?


Read the context of Romans 7, together with Romans 6 & 8.

That way you want keep taking things out of context.

And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24


JLB

 

[smaller]

Read the context of Romans 7, together with Romans 6 & 8.

That way you want keep taking things out of context.

There is nothing that reading in context will do to eliminate Paul's statements of fact. That much is certain. It's more of a question of who wants to "own up" to the facts.