Scarifies

[for_his_glory]

>>>I said: >>>Jesus taught Sinner who repent of his sins, better than the righteous who never sins.
I just agree with Jesus!! never intend for you to repent because you disagree with me. we both disagree with each other.

Luke 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

It is more joyous that even if one who repents as this is another brought into the kingdom of God. We all rejoice like the angels in heaven when someone comes to the Lord because it is a great victory, Luke 15:10.

Thank you for clarifying what you meant about me needing to repent.

>>>I am sure, my shoes or coat comes from an animal was slaughter and his meat went to Mcdonald, and the skin went to the shoes factory, is this animal was a sacrifice?

Does your shoes and coat cover your sins as a blood atonement as was done by God for Adam and Eve? That is the point of Genesis 3:21 for without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin, Hebrews 9:22

 

[Hopeful 2]

Do I make U turn from my evil and bad deeds and repent, or I keep doing the bad deeds till God appear to me and ask me to do better?

He won't appear to you, so turn from sin or perish.

Q: what's happen if I don't repent?

Your name will not be in the book of life on the day of judgement and you will be tossed into the lake of fire. (Rev 20:12)

Do I have to seek God for guidance, or He will appear to me to guide me?
Thank you

Why would he appear to you when He didn't appear to anyone else ?
You are seeking guidance right now !
Heed what I write.

After your turn from sin, the next thing is (water) baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
These two steps are recorded in Acts 2:38, spoken by Peter to others seeking guidance.
He added that if you are true to these tenets you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Tempo]

Luke 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

It is more joyous that even if one who repents as this is another brought into the kingdom of God. We all rejoice like the angels in heaven when someone comes to the Lord because it is a great victory, Luke 15:10.

>>> This is my great dilemma!!!
Look at these Beautifull verses you post and may find hundreds more God Almighty revealed to his prophets, and we still taught, that we are sinners and God won't accept us till an innocent man die!!!
It's all over the Holy Bible from cover to cover, repentance, repentance, repentance.

Thank you for clarifying what you meant about me needing to repent.

>>>We all sometimes read things differently, no worries.

Does your shoes and coat cover your sins as a blood atonement as was done by God for Adam and Eve? That is the point of Genesis 3:21 for without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin, Hebrews 9:22

>>>again, what I am trying to say is: verse 3:21 does not indicate in any shape or forum what God did was a sacrifice.
1) If it was a sacrifice, to whom God offer it? is there another God bigger than God?
2) I see it, God like a loving mother was teaching them how to eat and dress.
3) When Adam and Eve disobey God, before they ate from the tree of knowledge or after?

for without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin, Hebrews 9:22

>>>David committed a great sin, right?
How God forgave him, by sacrifice or by repentance?
How God forgave the Ninevites in the book of Jonah? by blood sacrifice or by repentance?

Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?

As you see God requirement does not include any blood sacrifices, its only:
1) to be just
2) love mercy.
3) be humble

Thank you

 

[for_his_glory]

>>> This is my great dilemma!!!
Look at these Beautifull verses you post and may find hundreds more God Almighty revealed to his prophets, and we still taught, that we are sinners and God won't accept us till an innocent man die!!!
It's all over the Holy Bible from cover to cover, repentance, repentance, repentance.


>>>We all sometimes read things differently, no worries.

>>>again, what I am trying to say is: verse 3:21 does not indicate in any shape or forum what God did was a sacrifice.
1) If it was a sacrifice, to whom God offer it? is there another God bigger than God?
2) I see it, God like a loving mother was teaching them how to eat and dress.
3) When Adam and Eve disobey God, before they ate from the tree of knowledge or after?


>>>David committed a great sin, right?
How God forgave him, by sacrifice or by repentance?
How God forgave the Ninevites in the book of Jonah? by blood sacrifice or by repentance?

Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?

As you see God requirement does not include any blood sacrifices, its only:
1) to be just
2) love mercy.
3) be humble

Thank you

Well by what you belief Jesus wasted His time offering up Himself for a sacrifice. Think about that. From the beginning it has always been by repentance and faith.

 

[Hopeful 2]

>>> This is my great dilemma!!!
Look at these Beautifull verses you post and may find hundreds more God Almighty revealed to his prophets, and we still taught, that we are sinners and God won't accept us till an innocent man die!!!
It's all over the Holy Bible from cover to cover, repentance, repentance, repentance.

If Jesus had not died, and more importantly been raised from the dead, we wouldn't be able to permanently turn from sin (repent of sin).
Paul uses that fact when He explains what else happens at our water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin in Romans 6.
It is written..."What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Without Jesus' death, we would not have His blood to wash us from our own past sins.
By taking part in His death and burial, our own old man is destroyed and we can be raised with Christ to walk in a new kind of life.
The result is in verse 7...freedom from sin !
The OT Jews could never do that.

>>>We all sometimes read things differently, no worries.

>>>again, what I am trying to say is: verse 3:21 does not indicate in any shape or forum what God did was a sacrifice.
1) If it was a sacrifice, to whom God offer it? is there another God bigger than God?
2) I see it, God like a loving mother was teaching them how to eat and dress.
3) When Adam and Eve disobey God, before they ate from the tree of knowledge or after?


>>>David committed a great sin, right?
How God forgave him, by sacrifice or by repentance?
How God forgave the Ninevites in the book of Jonah? by blood sacrifice or by repentance?

Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?

As you see God requirement does not include any blood sacrifices, its only:
1) to be just
2) love mercy.
3) be humble

Thank you

 

[Tempo]

Well by what you belief Jesus wasted His time offering up Himself for a sacrifice. Think about that. From the beginning it has always been by repentance and faith.

>>>Good question.
As I said before, God never ask us for blood, especially the blood of human. He condemn this practice and ask us not to do it.
Look at Jer. 7:22, where God deny when He deliver the commandment to the Jews, He never told them about blood sacrifices instead, He told them to obey his voice.
Now, you will ask, what about all these sacrifices in the book of Lev. ?
Yes, I agree it's in there But, look at it again.
It was prescriptions as a (penalty) for sins committed (unintentionally).
To prove that here is my question:
What's the sacrifice for the crime of (killing), blood? no.
what's the sacrifice for the crime of (disobeying) the parents, blood? no
How about committing crime of (adultery) , blood? no
How about the crime of (stealing), blood? no.
And more and more.
Like I said before, After David committed a big sin, did he slaughter an animal? no, he just confesses his sin to God, and he was forgiven.
Ninevite are a good example, did God accept their repentance because they shed blood and sacrifice animals or because they repent from their sins?

I hope this answer your question.

 

[for_his_glory]

>>>Good question.
As I said before, God never ask us for blood, especially the blood of human. He condemn this practice and ask us not to do it.
Look at Jer. 7:22, where God deny when He deliver the commandment to the Jews, He never told them about blood sacrifices instead, He told them to obey his voice.
Now, you will ask, what about all these sacrifices in the book of Lev. ?
Yes, I agree it's in there But, look at it again.
It was prescriptions as a (penalty) for sins committed (unintentionally).
To prove that here is my question:
What's the sacrifice for the crime of (killing), blood? no.
what's the sacrifice for the crime of (disobeying) the parents, blood? no
How about committing crime of (adultery) , blood? no
How about the crime of (stealing), blood? no.
And more and more.
Like I said before, After David committed a big sin, did he slaughter an animal? no, he just confesses his sin to God, and he was forgiven.
Ninevite are a good example, did God accept their repentance because they shed blood and sacrifice animals or because they repent from their sins?

I hope this answer your question.

When you begin to understand the full context of the scriptures that teach on blood sacrifices then you might understand it better. I'm not going to sit and argue about this. I gave what I understand about the blood.

 

[Tempo]

If Jesus had not died, and more importantly been raised from the dead, we wouldn't be able to permanently turn from sin (repent of sin).

>>>Didn't Jesus said: if you forgive your brother sins, God will forgive your sins? no blood needed.
Didn't David was forgiving by only confessing his sins? no blood needed.
Didn't the Ninevite were forgiving by turning from their evil deeds? no blood needed.

Ecclesiastes 12:13
When all has been heard, the conclusion of the matter is this: Fear God and keep His commandments, because this is the whole duty of man. (No blood or death mention!)

I trust God will honor his commandment.

 

[Consecrated Life]

>>>Thank you both for your respond.
Some said, he was killed because he was (the king of the Jews) which was a crime.
Some will say, because of (Envy).
So, it doesn't matter who killed him.
My question: If he was killed for (crime) he committed, or they thought he committed then:
Neither the Jews nor the Romas have any intention of offered him as a scarifies To God.
We agree this practice (crucifixions) done on daily bases.
How Jesus became a scarifies to God, and not just (criminal) like anyone crucified and killed?

Not like anyone else Because Jesus Christ alone already having the Power of eternal Life is the only man who ever walked this earth who could never die unless He chose to do so.
No person could ever cause him to do die, not Jews , not romans, not anyone unless He chose it for Himself on behalf of my sins and your sins.

Jhn 10:18
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

 

[Hopeful 2]

>>>Didn't Jesus say: if you forgive your brother sins, God will forgive your sins? no blood needed.

Yes.

Didn't David was forgiving by only confessing his sins? no blood needed.

No blood was used/needed, but David paid a heavy price, including the loss of his son with Bathsheba.
Then the kingdom itself.

Didn't the Ninevite were forgiven for turning from their evil deeds? no blood needed.

Yes, blood not needed.

Ecclesiastes 12:13
When all has been heard, the conclusion of the matter is this: Fear God and keep His commandments, because this is the whole duty of man. (No blood or death mention!)
I trust God will honor his commandment.

He will.
Blood is no longer used for the atonement of sins.
That was the OT, Jewish method, of sanctification; the blood of bulls, goats, and sheep, to pay for all manner of uncleanness.
But those methods were just presages of our Lord's willingness to suffer and die so we can now live without sin.
It was the ultimate sacrifice.
In the beginning of Genesis, blood was "life".
Jesus gave His life (blood) so men could have life eternal.

 

[Tempo]

Yes.

>>> So, why Jesus changes his mind?

No blood was used/needed, but David paid a heavy price, including the loss of his son with Bathsheba.
Then the kingdom itself.

>>> Please see: Ez. 18:4, 18:20
Still his repentance saved him, and he was forgiving.

Yes, blood not needed.

>>>Again, if it was (repentance), good enough then, why not now?

He will.
Blood is no longer used for the atonement of sins.

>>>It never was (Jer. 7:22)
It was ONLY for sins committed (unintentionally) as (penalty) only.
Where is the mercy of God if a poor man committed sin and he can't afford to buy a goat or sheep?

That was the OT, Jewish method, of sanctification; the blood of bulls, goats, and sheep, to pay for all manner of uncleanness.

>>>Beside why you stop on blood only??
where is the money, the flour, burning incense and the repentance which God command too?

All? would you please show me how many goats or sheep required if someone caught: stealing, work on the Sabbath, murder, rape, kidnapping or even disobeying his parents?
Is there any sacrifices or blood to cover the above sins beside repentance?

But those methods were just presages of our Lord's willingness to suffer and die so we can now live without sin.
It was the ultimate sacrifice.

>>>But Jesus taught before he died, every man will be judged according to his own deeds. (Matt. 16:11).
and after he died (Rev. 20:12).
and God warned us, that He will judge us according to our own deeds (Job 34:10), (Ps. 28:4), (Jer. 25:14), (Hosea 12:2)
No blood needed.

In the beginning of Genesis, blood was "life".

>>> Let's agree on what is a sacrifice.
sacrifice means in Hebrew: Qurban, which means to give something for the sake of God, (to be near) him.
Sacrifices were giving from the creature to the Creator, we both agree, I think.
In Genesis, as you and me been told and taught, God made a sacrifice to cover Adam's sin.
Question: Is there any other God bigger than God to offer him a sacrifice?

Jesus gave His life (blood) so men could have life eternal.

>>>God hates sacrifices, especially human blood (Deut. 12:31) -(2 king 21:6)
How God Almighty hate for us to do something because He consider it bad, and He will do the same bad thing??

 

[Hopeful 2]

>>> So, why (did) Jesus changes his mind?

I can only forgive those who sin against me.
Sins against God must be forgiven by God.

>>> Please see: Ez. 18:4, 18:20
Still his repentance saved him, and he was forgiving.

I don't see any repentance from sin in Ezec. 18.

>>>Again, if it was (repentance), good enough then, why not now?

What repentance ?

>>>It never was (Jer. 7:22)
It was ONLY for sins committed (unintentionally) as (penalty) only.
Where is the mercy of God if a poor man committed sin and he can't afford to buy a goat or sheep?

Do you see any cases like that in the OT ?

>>>Beside why (so) you stop on blood only??
where is the money, the flour, burning incense and the repentance which God command too?

What ever was appropriate under the OT Law, was required.

All? would you please show me how many goats or sheep required if someone caught: stealing, work on the Sabbath, murder, rape, kidnapping or even disobeying his parents?
Is there any sacrifices or blood to cover the above sins beside repentance?

I can't say, as the OT Law is not in effect anymore so I don't study it.

>>>But Jesus taught before he died, every man will be judged according to his own deeds. (Matt. 16:11).
and after he died (Rev. 20:12).
and God warned us, that He will judge us according to our own deeds (Job 34:10), (Ps. 28:4), (Jer. 25:14), (Hosea 12:2)
No blood needed.

Not since He spilled His own blood, forming a New Covenant.
"For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." (Matt 26:28)

>>> Let's agree on what is a sacrifice.
sacrifice means in Hebrew: Qurban, which means to give something for the sake of God, (to be near) him.
Sacrifices were giving from the creature to the Creator, we both agree, I think.
In Genesis, as you and me been told and taught, God made a sacrifice to cover Adam's sin.

What did God sacrifice ?

Question: Is there any other God bigger than God to offer him a sacrifice?

No.
There is only one God.

>>>God hates sacrifices, especially human blood (Deut. 12:31) -(2 king 21:6)
How God Almighty hate for us to do something because He consider it bad, and He will do the same bad thing??

The blood sacrifices of the OT accomplished nothing.
It was a bandage for sin.
The blood of Christ, freely offered to take away the sins of the world, is effectual.
It is a cure for sin instead of just a bandage.

 

[Tempo]

I can only forgive those who sin against me.
Sins against God must be forgiven by God.

>>>Agree.
But God more merciful than me and you. He forgives us when we turn back to him and ask him for forgiveness.

I don't see any repentance from sin in Ezec. 18.

>>>It was a respond to David's son death as a punishment for his (David) sin.

What repentance ?

>>> David. when he sins against God, he confesses his son to God, and he was forgiving.

Do you see any cases like that in the OT ?

>>>David and Ninevites.

What ever was appropriate under the OT Law, was required.

I can't say, as the OT Law is not in effect anymore so I don't study it.

>>>Did Jesus teach not to fellow the OT?

What did God sacrifice ?

>>>too many people believe God offer a sacrifice in Gen. 3:21. if you do, to whom He (God) offer the sacrifice?

No.
There is only one God.

>>>Agree. Just like Jesus said God the father is the only true God.

The blood sacrifices of the OT accomplished nothing.
It was a bandage for sin.

>>>Agree. It was manmade practice the Jews bought with them from Egypt, God never command (Jer. 7:22)

The blood of Christ, freely offered to take away the sins of the world, is effectual.
It is a cure for sin instead of just a bandage.

>>>if this true, then why Jesus said, everyone will be judge according to his seeds.

Why he wastes his time and kept commanding others to repent and do good deeds instead of telling them, just wait till I die and believe, and my blood will wash your sins?
I am sure you know about the rich man who asked him how to get to haven.
What Jesus answer was?
wait till I die, or fellow the Law?

 

[Hopeful 2]

>>>Agree.
But God more merciful than me and you. He forgives us when we turn back to him and ask him for forgiveness.

He will only hear you if that is the last time you commit a sin.
It is written in John 9 that "God heareth not sinners".
If a man's repentance from sin is true, he won't sin again and God will forgive him when he is baptized. (Acts 2:38)

>>>It was a respond to David's son death as a punishment for his (David) sin.

I still see no repentance from sin in Ezec. 18.

>>> David. when he sins against God, he confesses his sin to God, and he was forgiven.

Yes he was, but things changed at the end of the OT.
Before that, all men walked in the flesh and had no alterative.
In the NT, we can kill the old man and be reborn of God's seed and walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.

>>>David and Ninevites.

OT examples for OT men.

>>>Did Jesus teach not to fellow the OT?

Yes, some of it.

>>>too many people believe God offer a sacrifice in Gen. 3:21. if you do, to whom He (God) offer the sacrifice?

I don't believe that.

>>>Agree. Just like Jesus said God the father is the only true God.
>>>Agree. It was manmade practice the Jews bought with them from Egypt, God never command (Jer. 7:22)
>>>if this true, then why Jesus said, everyone will be judge according to his seeds.

"Deeds" not "seeds".
The ones being judged are all men.
Some will find their names in the book of life, while others won't.

Why he wastes his time and kept commanding others to repent and do good deeds instead of telling them, just wait till I die and believe, and my blood will wash your sins?

It will be too late then.
The person missed the opportunity to glorify God on earth.

I am sure you know about the rich man who asked him how to get to haven.
What Jesus answer was?
wait till I die, or fellow the Law?

The essence of Jesus' answer was...Love God with all your might and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
It is the law of Christ for the NT.

 

[gordon777]

>>> This is my great dilemma!!!
Look at these Beautifull verses you post and may find hundreds more God Almighty revealed to his prophets, and we still taught, that we are sinners and God won't accept us till an innocent man die!!!
It's all over the Holy Bible from cover to cover, repentance, repentance, repentance.


>>>We all sometimes read things differently, no worries.

>>>again, what I am trying to say is: verse 3:21 does not indicate in any shape or forum what God did was a sacrifice.
1) If it was a sacrifice, to whom God offer it? is there another God bigger than God?
2) I see it, God like a loving mother was teaching them how to eat and dress.
3) When Adam and Eve disobey God, before they ate from the tree of knowledge or after?


>>>David committed a great sin, right?
How God forgave him, by sacrifice or by repentance?
How God forgave the Ninevites in the book of Jonah? by blood sacrifice or by repentance?

Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?

As you see God requirement does not include any blood sacrifices, its only:
1) to be just
2) love mercy.
3) be humble

Thank you

We see in the beginning that God is not left undisturbed by what man did to each other. ( Cain killing Abel.) and God early on, ( after the flood as God condemned the old world to show being saved by water would be required too.) shows that the shedding of mans blood, required the shedding of that mans blood also.

God also told us how the life is in the blood. ( Genesis 4:4.)

So from the beginning, God gave these testimonies, and we have to believe in them, because they were not acceptable deeds done on earth by man, ( God had made man in the image of God.)



Genesis 4:4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.



We were also told about the blood, how the life is in the blood, when God had made an offering for the Hebrews , to make atonement for their souls, and said it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul. ( because the life is in the blood, and God also requires life for life. Exodus 21:23.)



Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Exodus 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,




It is not too much of a dilemma, to add being just, merciful and humble, with the blood of Christ, shed for many for the remission of sins. ( God disturbed from the beginning, required mans blood shed, and gave an atonement in the blood for the Hebrews.)

We first learn of the ways of the Messiah, of meekness, ( humble/meek lowly of heart.) of justice, ( He is just lowly.) and of mercy,. ( He gives rest to all that ,labour and are heavy burdened.)



Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.




Now we can understand how we can do what is right with the Lord, is was all along going to be in belief of the Messiah Jesus Christ, HIs shed blood no longer has the requirement of mans blood being shed, nor the atonement of the blood of bulls of calves, HIs blood satisfied the Lord, who we saw had been disturbed by man from the beginning.

Also the first testament had transgressions against God. ( the same disturbance against God had also come by the Hebrews) and required redemption.

Jesus mediates the new testament, to give to the called the promise of eternal inheritance. ( first promised to Abraham, so all are called together by faith.)



Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.