[_ Old Earth _] Science and Christianity go hand in hand

[soma]

Many people today view science and religion as two radically different ways to understand the world, but religion and science strengthen each other's belief because they are both concerned with what is true. They were not meant to live alone in isolation, divorced from each other so tear down the barricades that divide them because faith and reason are meant to live happily together. Reason does not destroy faith, but fulfills it so we can use our intelligence as a path to spiritual awareness and when our intellect can say no more, our instinctive spiritual view of life will take over. This provides us with a kind of intuitive perception of God as He is reflected in creation......
Let the scientists and the Christians go on developing methods to understand the universe because with their discoveries and inventions we can split apart the physical and spiritual sides of life and gain knowledge because the more we know of the individual things, the more we know of the whole. The relationship between our human nature, the world and the beyond is made understandable, as we perceive that life is a relative and intricate part of an undivided whole. We just have to be careful not to get engulfed by the particular things and lose sight of the total picture.

 

[evanman]

Many times science comes to perpetuate and promote lies.

Science is not always concerned with truth!

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

Many times science comes to perpetuate and promote lies.

Science is not always concerned with truth!

That's a falsehood. If at any time a scientist or group of scientists is allowing political, religious, social, etc, forces determine his or her conclusions, then they are not being scientificially rigorous. Science is concerned with the synthesis of theories which describe the way that the world works and has worked in the past.
The fact that science, to be rigorous, must be tested, means that it is not able to escape the scrutiny of the entire community.

 

[keebs]

Science is not always concerned with truth!

Actually, the whole appeal of science is that it is only concerned with the truth...

 

[Blazin Bones]

Science is not always concerned with truth!

Actually, the whole appeal of science is that it is only concerned with the truth...

The opinionated truth, but yes, it does seek truth most of the time.

 

[Featherbop]

Science is not always concerned with truth!

Actually, the whole appeal of science is that it is only concerned with the truth...

But when you factor in human nature, bias, liberal agendas, and pressure on scientists from the majority of the community......you get nothing even closely resembling truth.

 

[keebs]

Human nature, bias, liberal agendas, and pressure from scientists do not change the fact that a tossed baseball falls back to earth...

 

[Blazin Bones]

Human nature, bias, liberal agendas, and pressure from scientists do not change the fact that a tossed baseball falls back to earth...

Why exactly are you argueing the existence of gravity Keebs? God created Gravity, what's so hard to beleave about that?

 

[keebs]

I wasn't arguing the existence of gravity...I was trying to make the point that human opinion does nothing to change how the universe actually functions

 

[Blazin Bones]

I wasn't arguing the existence of gravity...I was trying to make the point that human opinion does nothing to change how the universe actually functions

That's rather odd then, why do you keep pointing at gravity then Keebs?

As to human opinion having nothing to do with the way the universe functions, you are absolutely correct. The God who created both humans and the universe has controll over them. 8-)

 

[keebs]

That's rather odd then, why do you keep pointing at gravity then Keebs?

I was using gravity as an example of a scientific theory because you'd have to be crazy to claim that it is a hoax.

 

[Blazin Bones]

Who's claiming that it is a hoax Keebs?

 

[keebs]

Nobody was claiming it's a hoax. I was merely using gravity as an example of a scientific theory to show that science doesn't change because human opinion does. I could easily reword my post to say something like "Human opinion does not change the way the world works, and thus does not change science", but I posted my reply the way I did because I thought it sounded better.

 

[ThinkerMan]

Here is where I see the difference between the two "sides".

1. Science: It can be independently proven. You, I, anyone can work to prove or disprove its claims.

You can read the method and the data. You can scrutonize the information. You can conduct your own test.

Indeed, the independent verification of scientific theories is probably its most important mechanism.

That is why we (pro-science) always ask for proof. Why SPECIFICALLY is wrong with the method or data or analysis when someone challenges a theory.

2. Religion.

Hearsay. As someone who has not been "personally revealed" it is all hearsay.

For Christianity, I must depend on Jewish writings 3,000 years ago to define the origins of life and universe. I must believe Paul as to what God wants, and the anonomous authors of four stories about a person who lived 40-70 years before they put pen to paper.

In short, hearsay evidence is being introduced to trump that which is independently verifyable. That is where the problems lies.

That is what I see as the difference between the two. I don't mean to write this to claim that religion is always in error, nor am I claiming that its claims must be false.

What I am saying is that because science can be independently verified, I will trust those results when they are in conflict with the hearsay claims of the bible, because the miraculous deeds of gods are not a sole function of Christianity.

All theist religions make similar claims of miracles. You all agree with me that those others are false. Why are the claims of this specific religion tome, the bible, not worthy of that same objectivism?

 

[Gary]

"Thinker"Man: "... All theist religions make similar claims of miracles."

Gary: Utter rubbish. Islam makes no such claims. Muhammad performed no miracles. Even the Quran recognises that fact.

 

[keebs]

Gary: Utter rubbish. Islam makes no such claims. Muhammad performed no miracles. Even the Quran recognises that fact.

And the angel Gabriel delivering Allah's words to Muhammad is not considered a miracle?

 

[keebs]

An even better resource for Muhammad's miracles:

http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfse ... icleid=106

 

[Gary]

Gary: Utter rubbish. Islam makes no such claims. Muhammad performed no miracles. Even the Quran recognises that fact.

Keebs: And the angel Gabriel delivering Allah's words to Muhammad is not considered a miracle?

Gary: No. The Qur'an says that Allah did not give Muhammad power to perform miracles (al-An`am 6:109-112; bani Isra'il 17:92-97; al-Kahf 18:10; al-`Ankabut 29:49-50), that he was a mortal like anyone else (Ha Mim Sajdah 41:6) and that he was an ordinary man, (bani Isra'il 17:90-96).

:wink: :wink:

 

[Gary]

try the Quran....

http://www.quranbrowser.com/cgi/bin/get ... 0;29:49-50

Still so sure keebs? Your article refers to the Hadith (not the Quran!)

 

[keebs]

No...my article specifically says the Qur'an...and you're latest link doesn't even work.