Scriptures that appear to Teach against limited Atonement !

[savedbygrace57]

Those who oppose the scripture truth of limited or particular atonement, that is , Christ died only to save some of mankind as opposed to His death being a provision for all mankind as an opportunity for them to be saved, contingent upon them, their Faith, or their repentance or their water baptism, and ect, whatever it maybe, they do not believe that Christ cross work saves alone in and of itself. When I say cross work, that includes, His Obedient Life, His death, burial, and resurrection and His present ascension on the right Hand of His Father with all power given in His Hand, and having received of the Father the Holy Spirit of promise to apply His saving benefits to each chosen vessel of mercy He died for, hence accomplishing their full salvation with Eternal Glory.

The first scripture text we will look at is 1 tim 4:

10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

The word Saviour is the greek word Soter and means:

saviour, deliverer, preserver

Now, there is a sense by which God, the Living God is the Saviour of all men without exception in that He is our providential preserver, all creatures exist for God's purposes and we are preserved[in a providential way] until such purposes have been fulfilled.

Scriptures that denote this: Neh 9:6

Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

You see, God gives us life physical and preserves it, maintains it. All creatures are dependent upon God even for their natural lives.

Job 7:10

I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?

acts 17:


24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

25Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

God giving life to all, thats part of preserving them, being their Saviour.

Now, in this manner, the Living God is the Saviour to all men without exception, giving them their due rain and sunshine, unto the Just and Unjust. as it reads:

Matt 5:45

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

 

[savedbygrace57]

So as we continue to look at 1 tim 4:10, we have seen that God in a very general and providential manner is the Saviour/ Preserver of all men without exception, that is saved and unsaved.

But then He ad's another comment, especially to them that believe. The word especially is the greek word malista:


especially, chiefly, most of all, above all

Now some say other translations of the gk have the word "namely" as to say:

10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, namely of those that believe.

Also, if we study the word chiefly, one of its meanings is particularly or even specifically.

So the the text could read without violation of the word malista :

10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specifically or particularly of those that believe.

This of course would confirm particular atonement !

So the word malista,appears to be a word or expression to clarify what is being said, so that the proper ideal may be conveyed.

Because if the ideal of all men without exception had the Living God as a Saviour, why add the clarifying remark, let the statement stand alone as like:

10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men.

But Paul does not write it like that, he being guided by the Holy Ghost to add that additional comment.

Now, even though I agree that God in a providential manner is the Saviour of all men without exception, this is not what Paul is referring to in this context.

This context has to do with His spiritual Labor in the Gospel and those things He endures in that regard:

The Labor and suffering reproach is for the ministry sake . 1 pet 4:


14If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

The word labor is used in conjunction with His ministerial efforts 1 cor 15:

10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

gal 4:

11I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

And so He says they Trust in the Living God who is the Saviour all men, both jew and gentile.

See, Paul's primary call and choice was for the ministry unto the gentiles, and so He Trusted God in that, He knew it was God's purpose that gentiles would now Trust in God or in Christ Matt 12:

18Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

19He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.

20A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.

And for that cause, Paul suffered reproach and labored Knowing that God in Christ is the Saviour of not just the jews, but all men.

A Saviour saves, not make it possible. Jesus saves from and out of death. How can you merely make it possible for a dead person to be saved out of or from death, they have to me made alive. Its ridiculous to even think that one Has a Saviour from sin and still dies in their sins.

So, I cannot see how 1 tim 4 10 teaches against particular atonement, in fact, it confirms it..

 

[savedbygrace57]

If a Man stops by the flower Shop and purchases some flowers for His wife, and He writes on the card, Honey, these are especially for you, does that mean that they were also in a lesser degree for someone else too, but they are just especially for her ? Of course not, that would be none sense, they were especially for her, and only for her..

 

[Sinthesis]

So are you saying that the Life Preserver of all men only works if one believes in it, making one's belief efficacious?

 

[childeye]

And Esau said, and in where did you love me? And God said, in that I loved Jacob.

 

[savedbygrace57]

John 1:29



John 1:

29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

This is the testimony of the scripture and John the baptist, that the Lamb of God taketh away the sin of the world. If the world here meant every single person without exception, that all have had their sins taken away, then why are not all without exception saved and made new creatures ? Many will say , because of unbelief, but unbelief is a sin. Its a sin like others that are excluded from the kingdom and will have its part in the lake of fire Rev 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

How therefore can a man die of unbelief if Jesus has taken away His sins ? You may as well say one was healed, but yet will die of cancer ! To say that Christ stripes alone healed them He died for as per 1pet 2:

24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

And then yet one who has been healed will be cast into the lake of fire for unbelief is the same as one being healed of all their diseases and then dying of cancer.. So Jn 1:29 cannot mean every sinner without exception, its talking about the scope of redemption, that its universal, and not limited to national israel.

 

[savedbygrace57]

2 Cor 5:19 -



2 Cor 5:

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Note: This is the same world as Jn 1:29 !

God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself [This is a reconciled world] Now those who believe a lie, think that the world here includes all mankind without exception, but the next statement in the verse limits the word world [kosmos] to God's Elect or called and Chosen by the words Their and Them .

Now understand here, when this reconciliation took place Their Trespasses were not counted or charged against them, because Jesus having them charged to Him, paid for them in full. A comparison verse pertaining to those having not charges laid against them is Rom 8:

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

It is God's elect that has not their trespasses imputed unto them, because it is Christ that died for them.

So this text proves that world is limited to certain ones in the world, the elect or called of God.

Let it be known also, that the word world in scripture can mean:

any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

So for instance, the collection of all the Sheep, is a world, The collection of all the Church or called out ones is a world.

The collection of all the[spiritual] seed of Abraham from among the jews and gentiles is a world. The collection of particulars !

The word particular means :

Of, belonging to, or associated with a specific person, group, thing, or category; not general or universal: has a particular preference for Chinese art. Separate and distinct from others of the...

 

[savedbygrace57]

1 Tim 2:4



Another scripture that appears to Teach against limited atonement but does not is 1 Tim 2:

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Does this scripture teach that God desires all men without exception or is it that God desires all men without distinction to be saved and come into the Knowledge of the Truth.

The word for will is the greek word thelo and means:

to will, have in mind, intend

a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

b) to desire, to wish

c) to love

1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

d) to take delight in, have pleasure

So God determines, purposes to save all men in view, its His wish or desire, His pleasure.

In that case we should know that it cannot have reference to everyone without exception for the simple fact that whatever God desires, wants, determines and purposes, That He does or performs, notice Job 23:

13But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

14For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

Ps 115:

3But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

Notice here, God has done whatsoever He hath pleased. The word pleased here is the Hebrew word chaphets and means:

to delight in, take pleasure in, desire, be pleased with

a) (Qal)

1) of men

a) to take pleasure in, delight in

b) to delight, desire, be pleased to do

2) of God

a) to delight in, have pleasure in

b) to be pleased to do

Its the same as the greek word thelo in 1 Tim 2:4 To take delight in, have pleasure in.

And that which is such the case, He does it, He performs it, He brings it about..

So if God Almighty desired all without exception to be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth, He shall bring it about !

 

[Sam21]

1 Tim 2:4



Another scripture that appears to Teach against limited atonement but does not is 1 Tim 2:

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Does this scripture teach that God desires all men without exception or is it that God desires all men without distinction to be saved and come into the Knowledge of the Truth.

The word for will is the greek word thelo and means:

to will, have in mind, intend

a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

b) to desire, to wish

c) to love

1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

d) to take delight in, have pleasure

So God determines, purposes to save all men in view, its His wish or desire, His pleasure.

In that case we should know that it cannot have reference to everyone without exception for the simple fact that whatever God desires, wants, determines and purposes, That He does or performs, notice Job 23:

13But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

14For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

Ps 115:

3But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

Notice here, God has done whatsoever He hath pleased. The word pleased here is the Hebrew word chaphets and means:

to delight in, take pleasure in, desire, be pleased with

a) (Qal)

1) of men

a) to take pleasure in, delight in

b) to delight, desire, be pleased to do

2) of God

a) to delight in, have pleasure in

b) to be pleased to do

Its the same as the greek word thelo in 1 Tim 2:4 To take delight in, have pleasure in.

And that which is such the case, He does it, He performs it, He brings it about..

So if God Almighty desired all without exception to be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth, He shall bring it about !

Acts 26:24 you are beside yourself,much learning has made you mad. That was a scripture so I was not attacking you, friend,your attempts to present logic are askew,you are simply not making any sense.

 

[savedbygrace57]

1 Tim 2:4 cont



Also coming into the Knowledge of the Truth is an act of Divine Sovereignty, the Knowledge here is The Gospel, the Word of Truth Eph 1:13

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Col 1:5

For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

God gives Knowledge of Salvation to His People Lk 1:

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

God by an act of Divine Fiat shines the Saving Knowledge into our Hearts 2 Cor 4:

5For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

6For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

So if God desired all men without exception to be saved and come into a Knowledge of the Truth as 1 Tim 2:4 points out, then He would command it so, by giving them the Light of the Gospel in their hearts, not just in their heads, for its as easy as Him saying "Let there be Light" and Gospel Light would dispel our darkness.

Notice the picture paul uses to make this point. Lets look at Gen 1:

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

You see, Giving Light is up to God's will and power, its not an offer, but an arbitrary act of His Divine Will to accomplish His Purpose.

And giving Spiritual Knowledge through the Gospel is up to God's Sovereign Purpose. For its not God's will that all men without exception have this Knowledge Matt 13:

10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

The Mysteries of the Kingdom of heaven is another name for The Gospel..

Mark calls them that don't receive this saving Knowledge as those which are without Mark 4:11

And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Those who are not counted in the number of God's elect, they do not receive a Saving Knowledge of the Truth..and we can be certain that God is not desiring that they should !

 

[savedbygrace57]

1 Tim 2:4 cont -



Since saving Knowledge of the Truth is Sovereignly given to God's People Lk 1:


77To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, see 1 Tim 2:4

We should know this scripture is not meaning that God desires or wills the salvation of all men without exception and that they come into the knowledge of the Truth, because He did not choose all men without exception, if He did, the end of result would be this 2 Thess 2:

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

God's Sovereign Choice of one to Salvation always results in Two things #1. Sanctification of the Spirit, which is New Birth and #2 Belief of the Truth,

So all those men that God desires to be saved and come into the Knowledge of the Truth, will according to that same will be regenerated by the Spirit and believe the Gospel of Truth. James 1 says in vs

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

This is the same Truth referred to in 1 Tim 2:4..

Also, we know it cannot be God's will for all men without exception to come into the Knowledge of the Truth, because God is so pleased that many believe a lie, those of which He himself sends a strong delusion 2 Thess 2:

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

This is in contrast to those He chose to salvation through sanctification [regeneration] of the Spirit and belief of the Truth vs 13..

 

[savedbygrace57]

1 Tim 2:4 cont -



So what does paul mean in 1 Tim 2:4 ? This can be only understood as he was a New Covenant Minister of the Gospel 2 Cor 3:

5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

And as such he was appointed a minister of the new covenant not to the jews, but unto the gentiles 1 Tim 2:6-7


6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

7Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

This also lets us know that the gentiles were to be recipients of the New Covenant Jer 31:31-34.

Now with this in mind, he recognized Christ as the Mediator 1 Tim 2:5, this would be the Mediator of the New Covenant Heb 8:6,8. So it would be a mistake to view His mediator office in 1 Tim 2:5 as different from His mediator office in Heb 8:6-8; 12:24.

The All men God desires to be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth are the all men to whom the Spirit will apply the New Covenant transactions and blessings unto, the Spiritual Israel, the Spiritual Judah, which are comprised of all men without distinction. So God desired for these all men without distinction, what the New Covenant Promises to bestow upon them, Namely Salvation and a Saving Knowledge Heb 8:10-11


10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

God Promised to bestow Salvation by a spiritual working inwardly, which is regeneration Titus 3:5 which is a saving work, and saving knowledge of Himself vs 11 " They shall all know me" That is in a saving and spiritual way, through the Gospel, and thats what God willed and desired in 1 Tim 2:4

 

[savedbygrace57]

1 Tim 2:4 cont



So Christ New Covenant Blood of which He is Mediator 1 Tim 2:5 accomplished the will and desire of His Father; Through His work upon the cross, all the men He [God] wants and desires to be saved and to come into the Knowledge of the Truth, Christ has or will deliver or fulfill His Fathers wish or will, thats why its written in Isa 53:10

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

This word pleasure is the hebrew word chephets and means:


delight, pleasure

a) delight

b) desire, longing

c) the good pleasure

d) that in which one takes delight

Notice, that the desire of the LORD shall Prosper in His hand.

The word prosper means :

to advance, prosper, make progress, succeed, be profitable

to make prosperous, bring to successful issue, cause to prosper

It means to " To be effected " as in 2 Chron 7:11

11Thus Solomon finished the house of the LORD, and the king's house: and all that came into Solomon's heart to make in the house of the LORD, and in his own house, he prosperously effected.

So lets see what we have here. Based upon His bruising, which signifies His death, this Servant of the LORD shall rise from the dead [prolong His days] and the pleasure , the desire, the longing of the LORD shall prosper, be successful, shall be effected in His hand.

Now if the Lords desire is for all men to be saved and come into the Knowledge of the Truth, and that word will which is the greek word thelō and means :

to will, have in mind, intend

a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

b) to desire, to wish

c) to love

1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

d) to take delight in, have pleasure

Then it stands to reason that the Lord Jesus Christ will or has effected that will or desire of His Fathers, or how else can it be True that the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand ?

If their are some men whom The Father desires to be saved and to come into the Knowledge of the Truth, and Christ through His death, burial and resurrection and present intercession for them does not deliver or make good to the Fathers desire, then How can it be said that the Pleasure of the Lord prospers in His hand ? How can it be successful ?

So in essence, those who believe that 1 Tim 2:4 is Gods desire for all men without exception, and that some of those will perish in their sins without being saved and coming into the Knowledge of the Truth, then you are saying that Christ is a failure in accomplishing the Fathers will or desire or delight..

 

[savedbygrace57]

1 Tim 2:4 cont -



It is written in Isa 53:10, that the pleasure [desire, delight,longing] of the Lord shall prosper [be accomplished] in His[Jesus Christ] Hand. And we linked this with the Fathers will and desire it is to have all men saved and that they come into the knowledge of the Truth. So, that puts the responsibility into the Hands of His Son, to do His will, His Pleasure.

The Will or Pleasure or desire of the Lord [The Father God] shall prosper in His Hand.

Another confirmation that Paul has in mind the blessings of the New Covenant in 1 Tim 2:4, is that Paul mentions all types of prayers for all classes of men vs 1-3

1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.



This denotes he had an eye to the New Covenant Promise that all classes and types of men would come to Know God Heb 8:11b

11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Now could it be the ALL here is the same ALL in 1 Tim 2:4 ?

Notice again how the classes of men are mentioned in Heb 8 " from the least to the greatest. The least would imply the poor and common, and the greatest would imply Kings and people in Authority.

So 1 Tim 2:4 is Paul's acknowledging the benefits and applications of the New Covenant Blessings upon all sorts, types and classes of men. For Just think of the blessing it would be if God converted some that were in government during their time, when political rulers in those days set themselves against the cause of Christ and persecuted believers more so than in our days.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Comments on 1 Jn 2:2



You see, those whom God spoke of to Abraham, that He had made Abraham a Father of, in the many nations, were also Abraham's seed of promise, as Isaac was. Gal 4:28. Abraham's seed was in every nation covering the scope of the whole World.

Abraham was made the Father of many nations, not just the nation of israel, his descendants according to the flesh. Now Abraham had a spiritual seed in the nation of israel [remnant] but He also had a seed in Egypt, Ethiopia, USA, Russia, Germany, South America, even every nation on earth. So when we read 1 Jn 2:2, that He [Jesus Christ, the seed of Abraham Gal 3:16] is the propitiation or reconciliation not only for our sins [jews] but also for the whole world [gentiles] it is simply stating, that Christ is the propitiation for the entire seed of Abraham of the Many Nations of the world. Because remember in order to make this reconciliation or propitiation, this redemption, He must have had a kinsmen redeemer relationship with them of which He did, for they were all of one Father, one purpose from before the foundation Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Heb 2:11

11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Jn 17:23-24

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

 

[savedbygrace57]

What about 2 Pet 3:9 ?



2 Pet 3:9

9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Many today have wrested this scripture out of its context to falsely suppose and teach that God wills the Salvation of all mankind, or that He is not willing that any of all mankind Perish in their sins.

There are so many ways to refute that falsity and to show that this scripture no way supports such an falsehood.

The will of God here referred to here is an effectual will, the greek word here used boulomai not only is His will but also His will of counsel, that counsel of His will, according to which He effectually works Himself.

to will deliberately, have a purpose, be minded


The word is used here of God James 1:18

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

So the Apostle Peter is referring to those whom God has purposed, and resolved that they shall not Perish, but whom He has resolved to save.

Again the word is used with God willing to show the Immutability of His counsel Heb 6:17

17Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

Yes it was the immutability of His counsel that He of His own will beget He us with the word of Truth James 1:18 !

So those of you who think that 2 Pet 3:9 is God just wishfully willing that those whom He is not willing to perish,have a possibility of perishing, then you have been deceived. They will not Perish, but will obtain Salvation. Notice vs 15 of the same passage:

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;

 

[savedbygrace57]

2 Pet 3:9



The Apostle Peter here has as his aim to explain why it was so long for Christ to come in Judgment on this world. It was in order that none of the elect would perish but that they too would obtain the Salvation with Eternal Glory in Christ Jesus as Paul states here. 2 Tim 2:10

10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Peter perhaps wrote this epistle in 67-68 Ad right before His being put to death. And God had elect yet to be born into the world. So Christ would delay His coming until all the elect of all generations up unto the very last one, would delay until they all had been born sinners and experience the Salvation of the Lord. So they all must come to repentance before the Second Coming of their Lord.

When Peter wrote the Lord is Longsuffering to us-ward, by us He means the elect, and even possibly, he may even mean all jewish elect, or those of the jewish nation, of which he and they, those he was now writing were a part of. I personally would rather believe that peter did also mean the gentile elect as well, in view of His valuable lesson God taught him with Cornelius, though after that, he remained primarily a laborer amongst the jews as per Gal 2:7

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

The gist however is that God still had many elect, whether jew or gentile that needed to be born sinners and experience their salvation by Christ, and so the Second Coming could not occur until the very last one has been granted gospel repentance.

 

[Eventide]

Here's one;

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

This verse is consistent with the overall theme of Romans.. that there are none righteous, no not even one.. and that all men IN ADAM are under the same condemnation.. and that by the righteousness of one (Christ, the Last Adam), the free gift has come upon all men.. Romans 3 teaches us that this grace is UNTO ALL and that it is UPON ALL that believe in Jesus.

 

[smaller]

Everyone believes in 'limited' atonement whether they understand the matters or not.

For example, none of us would say that 'atonement' would apply to, oh, let's say, a physical chair, or a plant, etc etc.

So, in that sense atonement is undoubtedly 'limited.'

Atonement is factually both unlimited and limited. It is unlimited as it applies to mankind, and limited as it applies to things that are not mankind. The understanding that is put forth by the determinist camp is unsound in this matter.

WHY?

Let's look at Paul for the example. Paul had 'evil present' with him. Paul even had a devil. For those who bother to look up the scriptures, these matters are presented in a personal way by Paul in Romans 7:17-21 & 25, and 2 Corinthians 12:7.

Yes, Paul had a devil, a messenger of Satan put upon him by God no less, and it is reasonable to presume that the 'evil present' with Paul was that devil. We would all certainly say the devil in any form is presumably evil.'

So, in the matters of atonement, Paul himself had unlimited atonement, and the evil present with Paul, the messenger of Satan had zero atonement.

Both limited and unlimited atonement can be understood much better in viewing it this way, rather than trying to segment mankind. Segment your 'self' and you would understand that the evil present with any of us has zero atonement. All sin is factually of the devil who is undoubted associated with every sin in all of us and that working has zero atonement available, even when we are pawned by that working.

There are many more examples in the text that point to this matter. Another presentation is for unbelieving Israel. The unbelievers of Israel 'again' had something that was/is not them. What is Israel that is not Israel? The 'spirit of stupor' that was put upon them so they could not believe.

Unlimited atonement again applies to mankind who is Israel, but 'not' to the spirit of stupor that causes unbelief. Both of these 'entities,' mankind and the spirit of stupor exist together. Atonement applies to one and not the other.

There is no atonement available for the devil or his workings in mankind in any of us. Determinists would have us believe that all of 'their sins' are overlooked, while the sins of unbelievers are not. The factual case is none of our workings of the devil are atoned for the devil, but sins will not be accounted to mankind.

It's as simple as that.

enjoy!

s

 

[Eventide]

I think that it's pretty obvious that Christ didn't die for evil.. although the context of Limited Atonement is that Christ did not die for all men in Adam.. and imo that's nonsense.