Scriptures that appear to Teach against limited Atonement !

[savedbygrace57]

2 Pet 2:1

1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Many believe this scripture supports the erroneous teaching that Jesus Christ died for all mankind, but the scripture says nothing of the sort.

The First thing to note is that Peter calls these teachers false teachers, which is to also mean false brethren as per 2 Cor 11:26

In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;

This denotes, that in spite of their profession of Faith, they were not True believers of the Household of Faith.

The whole assumption is made because of the word phrase bought them.

Denying the Lord [despot] that bought them. The word for bought is the greek word agorazō and means:


to be in the market place, to attend it

2) to do business there, buy or sell

3) of idle people: to haunt the market place, lounge there


The word denotes ownership, making someone or something one's property.

What the word does not mean is redeem, as in exagorazo and means to buy out as in Gal 3:13;4:5

13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

It is also not the word lutroo which means:

"to release on receipt of ransom" (akin to lutron, "a ransom"), is used in the Middle Voice, signifying "to release by paying a ransom price, to redeem"

Titus 2:14

14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

1 Pet 1:18

18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

We know that bought in 2 Pet 1:1 cannot have this meaning because these are redeemed from all iniquity and from vain conversation or manner of life, which is impossible for a false teacher.

So the Point is, we can be bought without necessarily being redeemed.

One can be owned by Jesus Christ, He their Master, but not redeemed by Him , by His blood.

Notice Matt 13:

37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Notice that in vs 38 the field is the world kosmos This same world is Identified as His Kingdom in vs 41, His being the Son of Man of vs 37

So until this separation at the end of the age, both the Tares and Wheat are in His Kingdom or His World.

All things are under His feet as The Mediatorial King over the Church.

Eph 1:22

And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Underneath this headship are False teachers in the Church. Paul said their heresies must be, in order that those who are approved of God may be made manifest. 1 Cor 11:19

19For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Thats a purpose of God and Christ to permit false teachers among the True Believers, that they which are approved may be made manifested or evident.

Now that word heresies here in 1 Cor 11:18 is the same word in 2 Pet 2:1

So those false teachers were owned or bought for that purpose in Christ Church.

They were permitted [by being ordained Jude 1:4] into the covenant community of God's People, to promote these damnable heresies, that God's True Covenant People might be made manifest. This is all God's doing and Purpose.

Both their heresies and denying the Lord were purposed for them to do, ordained or written before hand for them to do.

So, 2 Pet 2:1 supposing to teach that Christ died for all without exception, that He shed His blood for these False teachers, can not be supported from this scripture, and most certainly from the ones to follow in that context of that chapter.

 

[savedbygrace57]

More on Heb 2:9



Heb 2:9

9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

I know those who wrest this scripture and impose upon it their own dark counsel, would say this is a proof text that Christ died for every human being of mankind, though it by no means state that, and context shows different, but the statement is more in line with what follows and adds clarification, that He [ Christ] by the Grace of God tasted death, for no others but for the Children which God hath given Him ! vs

13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Christ was given a seed, a offspring, children, by God the Father. They were given as His Portion Deut 32:9

9For the LORD's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

Again, they were given to Christ ! John 17:2,9

2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.


9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

Now these all given [The Children] took part of Adam, in flesh and blood, He [ Their Head and Spiritual Father] took part of the same and to this purpose Heb 2:

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And so He tasted death for every one of the Children God gave Him..

 

[Sinthesis]

So the Point is, we can be bought without necessarily being redeemed.

So what currency did Jesus use to buy the un-redeemed?

 

[savedbygrace57]

More on Heb 2:9



Heb 2:

9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

This tasting death for every man is synonymous with His offering Himself as a sacrifice for their sins. Now what are the results of His offering Himself ? Lets read Heb 10:10

10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering[or tasting of death] of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Notice, all for whom Christ tasted death for, or other words He was made an offering for, by that offering they are sanctified. The word sanctified here is the greek word hagiazo and means:

to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow to separate from profane things and dedicate to God

consecrate things to God

dedicate people to God

to purify

to cleanse externally

to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin to purify internally by renewing of the soul

They are set apart for the service of God, also they are free from legal guilt of sin before God !

Also in the greek, the word is in the perfect tense , and passive voice, meaning that in the past they were once and for all with results into the future, Made Holy, set apart for the service of God, and free from guilt legally before God by the blood of Christ, His offering, His Tasting death.

So for those of you who hold the erroneous view that Heb 2:9 is teaching that Christ tasted death for every man without exception, you have just declared that all men without exception are set apart for the purpose of God, Made Holy and Have been freed from guilt of sin legally. Thats universalism, everyone in the world without exception is saved from their sins. That is the logical conclusion to that erroneous view.

 

[savedbygrace57]

More on Heb 2:9 - Today, 01:56 PM



Heb 2:9

9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

In determining whether or not this tasting of death was indeed for all men without exception of all mankind, which it never states, we can know for sure by the end results or effects that this Tasting of Death or Christ shedding His blood, they are the same, accomplished for all those He died for, even the results that are recorded in this very same epistle.

We looked at previously how that scripture teaches that all those Christ offered Himself for or Tasted death for, they are the same, that He sanctified them once and for all by that Offering. Heb 10:10

10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

We seen how this word sanctified is in the perfect tense, denoting a once and for all accomplishment in the past. We looked at how God's servants are sanctified before they come out of the womb Jer 1:5

Once again Heb 13:12 states that the Purpose of His death outside the camp was to sanctify the People with His blood or His tasting death Heb 13:

12Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Now, lets look at another accomplishment of Christ Tasting Death, and what it achieved for them.

It perfected them before God. Notice Heb 10:14

14For by one offering[His tasting of death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Now this verse is loaded with Truth of what Christ tasting of death accomplished.

1 st it perfected them that He tasted death for. The word perfected is the greek word teleioō and means:

to make perfect, complete

to be found perfect

to consecrate as in Heb 7:28

28For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Now of course this perfection is first of all Legally before God, this is How God the Judge sees and declares all for whom Christ tasted death in behalf of, because thats How well pleased and satisfied He is with His Sons substitutionary work and blood shed, His tasting of death for its benefactors.

The word perfected here also is in the perfect tense. Hence, their perfection, legally, has been done completely once and for all time. Its in the indicative mood meaning this is a simple statement of fact.

So those of you who advocate that Christ in Heb 2:9 tasted death for every man in the world of mankind, then you are erroneously stating, that all mankind without exception has been legally perfected, made perfect before God for all time, forever

 

[Former Christian]

Savedbygrace57

“Those who oppose the scripture truth of limited or particular atonement, that is , Christ died only to save some of mankind as opposed to His death being a provision for all mankind as an opportunity for them to be saved, contingent upon them, their Faith, or their repentance or their water baptism, and ect, whatever it maybe, they do not believe that Christ cross work saves alone in and of itself. When I say cross work, that includes, His Obedient Life, His death, burial, and resurrection and His present ascension on the right Hand of His Father with all power given in His Hand, and having received of the Father the Holy Spirit of promise to apply His saving benefits to each chosen vessel of mercy He died for, hence accomplishing their full salvation with Eternal Glory.â€

As an opposer of the limited or particular atonement idea, I have this to say. You’re certainly entitled to your opinion. But what you said just as certainly doesn’t apply to me or any other such opposer I know of. You have created a straw man and are beating it to death. And you are interpreting Scripture accordingly instead of just believing what Scripture says.


“1 Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.â€

God is the savior of all, but the salvation is only experienced by those who believe into Christ. It has nothing to do with any limitation on the atonement itself.


“John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.â€

It just says what it says. The lamb of God takes away the sins of the world. Not just a few in the world. Again the atonement relates to the whole world. Only those who are in Christ experience the atonement.


“2 Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.â€

Verse 17, Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

All are reconciled. The reconciliation is only experienced by those who are in Christ. The reconciliation itself isn’t limited. Paul didn’t say, “and hath committed unto us the word of A PARTIAL reconciliation.â€


“1 Tim 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.â€

The statement is straightforward. Sorry you can’t believe it as is. It’s a glorious statement concerning the compassion of God.


“1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.â€

Again, sorry you can’t believe it as is.


“2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.â€

Since the context has to do with the end times, I fail to see how disagreeing with your view is taking this out of context.


“2 Pet 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.â€

Well, I agree. Even I don’t see how this applies to either side.


“Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.â€

Straightforward.


“So those of you who advocate that Christ in Heb 2:9 tasted death for every man in the world of mankind, then you are erroneously stating, that all mankind without exception has been legally perfected, made perfect before God for all time, foreverâ€

Interesting thought, but hardly what the verse or its context is implying.


Please interpret Romans 5:18 and its context.

FC

 

[savedbygrace57]

fc:

As an opposer of the limited or particular atonement idea, I have this to say. You’re certainly entitled to your opinion.

In my opinion as you call it, you oppose the Truth of scripture.

“Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.”

Read the thread, in fact, I am currently explaining this very scripture.

 

[Former Christian]

Savedbygrace57

"In my opinion as you call it, you oppose the Truth of scripture."

Or you do by your constant interpretation. The Bible has something to say other than your interpretations.

Interpret Romans 5:18.

FC

 

[savedbygrace57]

fc:

Interpret Romans 5:18.

Do it yourself, I am not here to do as you ask me to do. You already don't agree with the Truth's I am now presenting. I am not at your beck and call.

 

[Former Christian]

Savedbygace57

As I suspected.

Thanks

FC

 

[savedbygrace57]

Savedbygace57

As I suspected.

Thanks

FC

You are more than welcome, anytime..

 

[GRITS]

Savedbygrace57

"In my opinion as you call it, you oppose the Truth of scripture."

Or you do by your constant interpretation. The Bible has something to say other than your interpretations.

Interpret Romans 5:18.

FC

Former Christian, did you especially want Savedbygrace to answer the question? Because I believe Eventide has already given a very good interpretation of Romans 5:18

This verse is consistent with the overall theme of Romans.. that there are none righteous, no not even one.. and that all men IN ADAM are under the same condemnation.. and that by the righteousness of one (Christ, the Last Adam), the free gift has come upon all men.. Romans 3 teaches us that this grace is UNTO ALL and that it is UPON ALL that believe in Jesus.

 

[Eventide]

Former Christian, did you especially want Savedbygrace to answer the question? Because I believe Eventide has already given a very good interpretation of Romans 5:18

This verse is consistent with the overall theme of Romans.. that there are none righteous, no not even one.. and that all men IN ADAM are under the same condemnation.. and that by the righteousness of one (Christ, the Last Adam), the free gift has come upon all men.. Romans 3 teaches us that this grace is UNTO ALL and that it is UPON ALL that believe in Jesus.

Thank you !

I think that it's basically impossible for any Calvinist to be convinced otherwise though.. especially people like sbg.. scripture doesn't even matter anymore.. Calvin trumps Christ every time. Very sad but we see it day after day, post after post..

 

[jasoncran]

all doesnt mean all to those that are calvinist. it should be interpreted as some. that is they way they come across.

 

[Former Christian]

Grits, Eventide, Jasoncran

Savedbygrace57 starts threads just to proclaim. He doesn’t like anyone to oppose. He is like the Catholic Church, in the sense that he believes he is the true Church of Jesus Christ. Surely he knows he has a lot of rivals for that position in Christianity.

He is one of the kind that brought me to my present position. My present realization that Christianity doesn’t express the intention of the Bible. It probably doesn’t show. But I’m actually thankful for his kind for waking me up to the truth. Not his truth, of course.

I thought of starting a thread giving the other side, what to me is the Biblical side. I’m not much given to quoting the Bible anymore. Because “everybody don’t understand the Bible alikeâ€, as the song goes. So I just give what I believe in the form of prose.

I showed something from Genesis once and had it called a fairy tale. I don’t think that individual realizes he insulted the Bible, not me. I gave little if any commentary. All I did was to put the pieces together in away that clearly showed that it had a definite position on the matter at hand. So I think that my trying to give what I believe from a Biblical position would probably just be considered a private opinion. And my present stance against Christianity isn’t conducive to anyone thinking otherwise.

FC

 

[savedbygrace57]

Ransom for All !

1 Tim 2:6

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

This is another scripture the unlearned have taken and forced it to mean that Christ died for all men without exception; But this scripture teaches no such thing, yet it teaches that those whom Christ gave Himself for, all of them were actually ransomed and that the fact of it will be made known to all it concerns in due time.

The All here are the Many Here Matt 20:28

Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

So the All means all of the Many which were actually ransomed, not offered to be or made it possible to be, but ransomed, by the paid blood of Christ.

The word ransom in 1 Tim 2:6 is antilytron and means:

what is given in exchange for another as the price of his redemption, ransom

The ransom is Christ blood in exchange for the captive soul. This demands the release to the one captive as the root of antilytron implies. Its the word lytron and means:

the price for redeeming, ransom

a) paid for slaves, captives

b) for the ransom of life

2) to liberate many from misery and the penalty of their sins

They are liberated from any penalty of their sins, which death, spiritual is one of them.

So all for whom Christ gave Himself a Ransom in behalf of, must be freed from death, and that means Spiritual Death as well as any other types of death incurred by sin !

So the ones so ransomed must be given Life from the dead, for thats part of their liberation. This Life is a New Birth , a New Spiritual Life that sets them free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8:2

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Thats the result of the Paid Ransom, Its the Spiritual Life the ransomed receive as a Result of Christ coming into the world that they might Live through Him 1 Jn 4:9

In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world [To be a ransom for many], that we might live through him.

The word free in Rom 8:2 is the greek word eleutheroō
and means:

to make free

2) set at liberty: from the dominion of sin

Thats because of the ransom price paid by Christ blood and that being the case Life from the Spirit is given. Thats what Paul means by " The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus"

Thats because He is a quickening Spirit to all His ransomed 1 Cor 15:45

45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

That meas He is Life giving, He quickens whom He wills John 5:21

21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

The word quickeneth here is the same word quickening in 1 Cor 15:45, the word zōopoieō which means:


to produce alive, begat or bear living young

2) to cause to live, make alive, give life

So you see, all of this involves being ransomed by Christ giving Himself for the Many or the All. And its not a maybe, but all that He gave Himself a Ransom for SHALL be testified unto them in due time.

The word testified is the greek word martyrion and means:

testimony

And its the Testimony of Christ which is confirmed in all who Christ gave Himself a ransom for 1 Cor 1:6

6Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

He is speaking about the Testimony of God through the Gospel to them 1 Cor 2:1

1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

Thats what Paul means in 1 Tim 2:6 to be testified to in due time. So this accompanies those ransomed in 1 Tim 2:6.

The ransomed of the Lord shall Isa 35:10

And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

Jere 31:11

For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.

You see to be ransomed is to be ransomed from the hand of Him that was stronger than he, which was death !

And of course we know this ransom could not have been for all without exception, because scripture states many shall partake of the second death Rev 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

And Jesus says that some shall not see Life [Future Tense] Jn 3:36

36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[savedbygrace57]

More on Ransom 1 Tim 2:6

Who believes in a christ who gave himself a ransom for all, and the all that he gave himself a ransom for are not all ransomed ? If you serve that christ, which I don't, I must inform you that you serve a false christ. For you follow one of those christ's that Jesus said should arise Matt 24:24

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Remember in Johns revelation vision Rev 13:11


11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

This is the spirit that promotes a christ that gave himself a ransom for all, but the all are not ransomed .

The Christ I witness to today gave Himself a Ransom for All, and the All He did this for, are all the ransomed of the LORD Isa 35:10

10And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

Notice it says that the ransomed of the Lord shall return ! Thats what Christ ransom blood does for them it ransoms, it causes them to return. 1 Pet 2:25

For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

In the greek the word returned is in the passive voice, meaning the sheep are being turned, and this by the power of the ransom blood of Christ.

But this is not all mankind without exception that He redeems or ransoms but all the Sheep as 1 Pet 2:25 indicates or it is said of Jacob Jere 31:11

11For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.

Remember scripture says Jacob I have Loved, but Esau I hated ? Rom 9:13..

Jacob typifies all of God's Elect or Chosen, calling them Jacob Ps 105:6

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

These are they all who are Chosen in the Seed of Abraham Christ Eph 1:3-4

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Is not Christ the seed of Abraham according to Gal 3:16

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Now calling them Jacob sets them apart from all others, such as is the Church of God is set apart from the rest of mankind !

So He actually not potentially ransoms all the elect of God, the Church, not all of mankind without exception, for that never was God's intention.

 

[savedbygrace57]

John 3:16


What about John 3:16

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Does this verse teach against limited atonement ? By no means, in fact it confirms.

This verse is actually telling us what God's Love provided to the world, which was for the purpose of those believing should have Eternal Life.

In other words He was given to produce believers all over the world.

The word believing here is a present tense verb. Believing is a state of being here, not a condition or command.

So basically, those who never believe or become believers in Christ, then God did not give His Only Begotten Son for them.

Only Believers are designed to receive comfort from this scripture.

This was the fulfillment of God's Promise to Abraham, for all believers are the Children of Promise. All believers are Abraham's Seed God Promised Him, and this was accomplished through Christ Abraham's seed.

Rom 4:11,17-18

And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:


17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations or the World,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

18Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations or world, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

It was to this end that Christ came and died Lk 1:68-73

68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

This is the real meaning of Jn 3:16..The world is limited to those in it believing, the believing seed of Abraham..

 

[savedbygrace57]

Guilty of wresting scripture !



2 Pet 3:16

16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Those who falsely promote a Teaching that Christ died for all men without exception are most guilty of wresting scripture for their own evil purposes, to promote things contrary to the Truth. This is seen especially in how they pervert the various General terms or expressions as the word's all, all men , every, and which are used relatively !

The word wrest is the greek word strebloō and means:


to twist, turn awry

2) to torture, put to the rack

3) metaph. to pervert, of one who wrests or tortures language in a false sense

So what they are guilty of is twisting Truth, torturing it, putting upon it a false sense that God did not intend, and they do this willfully.

To give an example we will look at the word all as in 1 Tim 2:6

6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

In scripture this word is used in two ways. It can mean all without exception, which is rarely its meaning, and all without distinction, which is its most frequent usage, which means all classes, and kinds, old and young, men and women, rich and poor, educated and ignorant, and of course in many instances jew and gentile or men of all ethnicity.

The greek word is pas:

individually

a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything

2) collectively

a) some of all types

Now its up to the context and the overall tenure of Truth as to how we can understand the word all, if not, we impose our own understanding of it and then become guilty of wresting scripture, and save for being rescued by Grace, it will be to our own Eternal Ruin or Destruction.

Now lets look at a few verses that use the word all, and notice its usage according to the definition the lexicon gives us:

Lk 2:1

And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.

Now does the word all here denote all without exception in the inhabited world or earth ? Or does it mean within the Roman Empire ?

If all means the Roman Empire then it the word is used in a restrictive sense. Could Cesar demand taxes from Egypt ?

What about Mark 1:5

And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Now does this mean all the inhabitants of Judaea without exception ? Or does it mean all kinds and classes of people ? It may denote a great number of them, but it does not mean all without exception, because all without exception did not feel the need to confess their sins, especially the pharisees who believed they were already in a right relationship with God.

What about Acts 22:15

15For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

Does this mean that Paul will be a witness to all men without exception individually ? Or is the meaning here to the gentiles as well as to the jews ?

In none of these examples does all have the meaning of all without exception, but merely a relative usage.

The term all men here Rom 5:18

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

This again is used relatively as all men being related to each Head that represented them !

Did Christ the Second Adam represent all men without exception ? Scripture indicates that He represented His Church, He is the Head of His body the Church Eph 5:23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

Adam was the Natural Head of more than Just the Church, under His Headship did include the non elect as well.

So all men in both instances in Rom 5:18 are not the same, but relative to their Head.

If these things be not distinguished and we carelessly use the terms all or all men as we please to fit our notions, we wrest scripture.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

It's all Moot anyway.

Since the atonement is ONLY efficacious for those who are "Born again", then it's AUTOMATICALLY limited in its effect to the community of faith. The lost are POTENTIALLY covered by the atonement - but only if they become Christians, and the MAJORITY won't.

SO whether or not there's a "Calvinist style" Limited atonement or not is totally unimportant, since the "limitation" is intrinsic either way.