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security of the believer

So if unbelievers won't in heaven, and those who no longer believe are unbelievers, then how can they be in heaven?

What is the criteria for being a 'believer?' And for 'falling?' [see my previous comments about 'falling' from the charismatic versions of Jesus.]

Which 'version' of Jesus are you measuring either matter from?

How many directions would you like to observe for your own potential current state of falleness by other 'sects?' Or possibly not being 'saved' to begin with?

One liners do not a path of understanding make.
 
They shall never Perish

Jn 10:28

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Thats security forever !
 
You said and i quote:

"He gives me the choice of obeying Him or disobeying Him. He also warns that although His love for me is there till the end of time, if I allow sin to overtake me after being set free from it, it can, and I will harden my heart to His love in doing so. I will turn to a life of unbelief."

Your preaching that, If you allow sin to overtake you. that means if you sin. And you do sin Right??? then God will harden your heart and cause you to come to unbelief.

Either our sins cause us to lose salvation. Or they Don't. There is no point trying to have a foot in each camp and sowing confusion and doubt. Either we are forgiven sin and are covered by the Blood of Jesus or Jesus died for nothing and we are still condemed if we Sin.

So what is your stance. Are you saved by having your sins covered by the blood of Jesus or are you saved by your ability to avoid sin.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

What I am saying is that sin can, and will, cause a man to harden his own heart toward the things of God. It is undeniable principal found in the Bible. Jesus Himself made mention of it and warned against it.

What I am saying is that a man is "saved" from the curse of sin because He became a curse for us. What I am saying is that a man is "saved" from being a slave of sin because He has bought us with His blood. What I am saying is that God has given us the Spirit as 'security' of His faithfulness in redemption. What I am saying is that the work of the Spirit in the life of a believer is sanctification.

Mat 12:43-45 "When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, but finds none. Then it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came.' And when it comes, it finds the house empty, swept, and put in order. Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and dwell there, and the last state of that person is worse than the first. So also will it be with this evil generation."

What does He mean by "empty, swept, and put in order"? What is the role of the Gospel in the life of a believer?

Matthew 12:22-35 "Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, "Can this be the Son of David?" But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons." Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit. You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil.

What I am "preaching" is that the Spirit of God has a very much defined role in the life of a believer. He is the one who works out our sanctification. But if we "speak against" the role He does, if we desire to be in bondage again with sin, then we have hardened our own hearts toward Gods role in sanctification and we have outraged the Spirit of Grace that helps us in times of temptation. To say that "I am sealed, I have no role in obedience" is a complete false statement no where to be found in the Bible. We are now to obey. That is the whole idea of being "saved" here and now. Our eternal Salvation is waiting on us when He comes again.

What I am NOT saying is that we can somehow 'earn' this Salvation. Or even repay the price He paid for us.

But thats just it. He bought us. We belong to Him. We are His 'slaves' now. The work of the 'Gospel' of grace is to "empty a person, wash him clean, and put his mind in order". If after that person has been 'cleaned' by faith, and then does not abide in Christ and Christ in him, then the first state of "not knowing" would be better than the last state of "knowing and not continuing in faith/obedience". Faith is obedience. You cannot have one without the other.

Sin is the very act of disobedience. That is all sin is. What ever is not of faith is sin. When a person continues in a life of sin(disobedience) after being washed clean from an evil conscience by faith, then the person is "speaking against" the work of the Spirit in bringing all sons of God to obedience in Christ.

2Pe 2:1 But false prophets also arose among[that means from within believers themselves] the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who boughtthem[this is past tense, as in, it did happen], bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

2Pe 2:5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness[that means he was continually voicing the good work of God that was clearly seen in his life], with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

2Pe 2:7-8 and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked (for as that righteous man lived among them[not took part in their deeds] day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard[again, he did not participate]);

2Pe 2:14-15 "They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained[The Holy Spirit is our 'trainer' in righteousness] in greed. Accursed children! Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray[they left, that means they were at one time going the 'right way', they 'turned back']. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing,

2Pe 2:19-21 They promise them freedom[in other words, "hey no worries, all you have to do is "believe"], but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

What I am saying is that while people will still sin, while believers will still sin, while I still do sin from time to time; if I take the notion that it does not matter and I 'follow' after the sin, then I am enslaving myself to sin. If sin overcomes me, I am a slave to it. What I am saying is that the Spirit of God convicts me of that sin in my life. And if I choose, myself, to disobey the conviction then I am choosing to give myself over to sin. And if after a while of doing that, I can become 'hardened' to the Spirits call to sanctification and I can be overcome by sin.

What I am saying is that there are a lot of people who proclaim "freedom" to people, that is complete freedom. But we know that a person is not free in and of himself. We are either a slave of sin, or a slave of righteousness. There is no in between ground. Those who claim there is are caught up themselves in the bonds of iniquity. They teach a different Gospel than the one that has been given from Christ. Oh sure, the "good news" that man is saved here and now, no worries, nothing to it, nothing expected, nothing to do...yea...thats good news to those with ears that want to be tickled. The fact of the matter is that we were bought as slaves of Christ. We serve Him with love, not out of duty, but we serve Him none the less.

Security? Oh yea!! There is security in the knowledge that I have been bought, I have been redeemed and He is bringing eternal life with Him when He comes again to take me home. There is all kinds of security in the effectual, visible, working of the Spirit working in my life. Bringing my whole mind and body into submission before Christ. That is freedom and true security. There is a false sense of security, although those who hold to it know its false, that my "one time belief" will secure me a place in the kingdom, even though I see an outward desire to still sin and a continuing in it.

I am preaching security and freedom in the work of the Spirit of God in my life to bring about obedience.
 

I haven't read all of the posts, but ...

Hebrews 6:
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift,
and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves
the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

And I believe we must be in a state of repentance to be in a state of salvation.
Of course, there's death-bed repentance, etc.

 
They shall never Perish

Jn 10:28

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Again ,thats security forever !​
 
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