Self Assurance Doctrines

[Free]

First of all, God is one yet you guys changed to God is triune.

Firstly, there is no verse in the entire Bible which clearly or directly states that God is an absolute unity (only one person). Not one. There are, however, a lot of verses that state there is only one true, living God that is to be worshiped. Secondly, as I've posted before and you have yet to address:

Joh 8:23 And He was saying to them, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world.
Joh 8:24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." (NASB)

Remember, "He" is italicized because it is not in the Greek. This is Jesus saying that if you don't believe he is I Am, you will die in your sins. That is why Paul can say the following:

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.
Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (ESV)

Paul connects confessing that Jesus is Lord with Joel 2:32, which says, in part, "And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." Note that this verse is saying that "everyone who calls on the name of YHWH shall be saved." In other words, Paul is saying that one must confess Jesus is YHWH in order to be saved.

Second, there are too many man-made doctrines such as self-assurance.

those are gross misrepresentations of God and Jesus' word.

good day.

None of this addresses the verses that I gave. I'll also add that if we aren't assured salvation, then there is only works salvation, which isn't the gospel at all, it is antithetical to the gospel. You just have to hope you did enough work and good enough work that God will decide you're saved.

For once, please at least address the verses that have been given. I have yet to see you actually do that.

 

[grace2]

For once, please at least address the verses that have been given. I have yet to see you actually do that.

If I reply to your comments, I am taking a risk of never-ending arguments.

I don't have much in common with any triune God believers spiritually.

I have been reading the Bible both OT and NT myself without any church input for over 20 years.

And discovered that trin churches are built on man-made gods.

There is no truth in man-made organizations, especially trin churches.

I am here to present what the Bible teaches.

blessings.

 

[Free]

If I reply to your comments, I am taking a risk of never-ending arguments.

You risk being wrong and learning something and so do I. Being unwilling to discuss things shows that you aren't interested in truth and won't listen to correction, both of which go against the Bible.

I don't have much in common with any triune God believers spiritually.

No, you don't, unfortunately.

I have been reading the Bible both OT and NT myself without any church input for over 20 years.

Therein lies the problem. That is unbiblical and sinful. God calls us to community; we are never to go it alone. From the very beginning of the Church, based on what Jesus modeled in his ministry and called his followers to, the Church has always gathered together and lived in community, teaching and being taught.

God provides teachers and we need them today more than the NT church did, for a number of reasons, not the least of which is because koine Greek isn't spoken anymore and we are in an entirely different cultural context. Not to mention that only reading on one's own does not guarantee that one is reading correctly, such as understanding context, or understands what is said. If you are never challenged, just as it seems you never let yourself be challenged, then how can you ever know if you've arrived at the truth of a matter?

It will also guarantee that at least some of what you believe is incorrect.

And discovered that trin churches are built on man-made gods.

And, yet, you not only have not shown that to be the case, you have left unaddressed everything that is difficult for your position. Do you even use commentaries, lexicons, or refer to any other books by Christian scholars and theologians?

There is no truth in man-made organizations, especially trin churches.

There is much truth and you haven't shown otherwise.

I am here to present what the Bible teaches.

But you're ignoring what the Bible teaches. You don't seem to understand the gospel, you don't believe Jesus is God (which is necessary for salvation), and you aren't gathering with other believers for the worship of God, the teaching of Scripture, and using any gifts for the edification of others or being edified by their gifts, etc.

 

[grace2]

You risk being wrong and learning something and so do I.

My assessment of posters is all based on how you have been interacting with others with neverending arguments.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You are stuck on the "self" of self-assured.

I figured that's the issue, too.

Yesterday, I was straining my brain to remember where in my NIV it said "self assured", almost certain that it did, but then it occurred to me this morning that it was "fully assured" that I was thinking of:

12Epaphras, who is one of you and a servant of Christ Jesus, sends you greetings. He is always wrestling in prayer for you, so that you may stand mature and fully assured in the full will of God. Colossians 4:12

It seems grace2 needs the prayers of Epaphras so that she can stand mature and fully assured in the full will of God.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I figured that's the issue, too.

Yesterday, I was straining my brain to remember where in my NIV it said "self assured", almost certain that it did, but then it occurred to me this morning that it was "fully assured" that I was thinking of:

12Epaphras, who is one of you and a servant of Christ Jesus, sends you greetings. He is always wrestling in prayer for you, so that you may stand mature and fully assured in the full will of God. Colossians 4:12

It seems grace2 needs the prayers of Epaphras so that she can stand mature and fully assured in the full will of God.

Col 4:12 in the KJV reads..."Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God."
Another example of the use of the word "perfect", which I appreciate full well.
Your version of the bible holds you to a lesser standard.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Col 4:12 in the KJV reads..."Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God."
Another example of the use of the word "perfect", which I appreciate full well.
Your version of the bible holds you to a lesser standard.

12Epaphras, who is one of you and a servant of Christ Jesus, sends you greetings. He is always wrestling in prayer for you, so that you may stand mature and fully assured in the full will of God. Colossians 4:12

fully assured
πεπληροφορημένοι (peplērophorēmenoi)
Verb - Perfect Participle Middle or Passive - Nominative Masculine Plural
Strong's 4135: From pleres and phoreo; to carry out fully, i.e. Completely assure, entirely accomplish.*

*Colossians 4:12 (Scroll down to the bottom of page)


Similarly...

11We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. Hebrews 6:11

may be fully assured.
πληροφορίαν (plērophorian)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's 4136: Full assurance, conviction, confidence. From plerophoreo; entire confidence.**

**Hebrews 6:11

 

[Hopeful 2]

12Epaphras, who is one of you and a servant of Christ Jesus, sends you greetings. He is always wrestling in prayer for you, so that you may stand mature and fully assured in the full will of God. Colossians 4:12

fully assured
πεπληροφορημένοι (peplērophorēmenoi)
Verb - Perfect Participle Middle or Passive - Nominative Masculine Plural
Strong's 4135: From pleres and phoreo; to carry out fully, i.e. Completely assure, entirely accomplish.*

I other words, "perfect".

*Colossians 4:12 (Scroll down to the bottom of page)
Similarly...
11We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. Hebrews 6:11
may be fully assured.
πληροφορίαν (plērophorian)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's 4136: Full assurance, conviction, confidence. From plerophoreo; entire confidence.**
**Hebrews 6:11

In other words, "perfectly".

Some versions of the bible detest the word "perfect".
The "churches" that use those version preach against perfect obedience to Christ.
So, beware if you visit some "church" and their version of scripture teaches less than perfection.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I other words, "perfect".

In other words, "perfectly".

Some versions of the bible detest the word "perfect".
The "churches" that use those version preach against perfect obedience to Christ.
So, beware if you visit some "church" and their version of scripture teaches less than perfection.

I didn't think you'd acknowledge the sourves I provided, lol.

Just remember Hebrews 12:1 whenever you tell people that being born again means sinless perfection.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I didn't think you'd acknowledge the sourves I provided, lol.

Just remember Hebrews 12:1 whenever you tell people that being born again means sinless perfection.

I will when you start refuting the idea that God's seed can bring forth liars, murderers, adulterers, and thieves.
Men reborn of God don't capitulate to Heb. 12:1's "besetters".

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I will when you start refuting the idea that God's seed can bring forth liars, murderers, adulterers, and thieves.

No, that comes from the flesh, not the Spirit - Galatians 5:17-18.

17For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit (not doing what you do not want to do), you are not under the law.

In the emboldened part the 'but' is contrasting 'that which you do not want to do' with 'being led by the Spirit'. It's impossible for you to refute that. But I know you will refuse to see it and will figure out a way to refute it, lol.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Men reborn of God don't capitulate to Heb. 12:1's "besetters".

But you are claiming that sin not only does not easily entangle, but doesn't entangle at all! Completely contrary with the emphatic statement of Hebrews 12:1. You say sin does not entangle. The Bible says it does!

Hey, it's great if you really are someone that has not sinned even once since being born again 16 years ago. Good for you! But don't heap that burden of never being able to sin, or else you're not really born again on us who can see the plain words of scripture that addresses us imperfect Christians growing up and maturing into the image of Jesus in the ever-increasing traits of the Spirit (2 Peter 1:8 NIV). Stop discouraging sincere, but perhaps weak born again children of God!

 

[Hopeful 2]

No, that comes from the flesh, not the Spirit - Galatians 5:17-18.

17For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit (not doing what you do not want to do), you are not under the law.

In the emboldened part the 'but' is contrasting 'that which you do not want to do' with 'being led by the Spirit'. It's impossible for you to refute that. But I know you will refuse to see it and will figure out a way to refute it, lol.

Thank God the flesh of the converts was destroyed !
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Those walking in the Spirit cannot do the things they would have done if they were still walking in the flesh.

 

[Hopeful 2]

But you are claiming that sin not only does not easily entangle, but doesn't entangle at all! Completely contrary with the emphatic statement of Hebrews 12:1. You say sin does not entangle. The Bible says it does.

If by "entangle" you mean "commit", I agree with your interpretation of my post.
Sin is always nearby for the taking, even seemingly forced on mankind, on occasion, by the media, but we don't ever have to submit to it...thanks be to God.

Hey, it's great if you really are someone that has not sinned even once since being born again 16 years ago. Good for you! But don't heap that burden of never being able to sin, or else you're not really born again on us who can see the plain words of scripture that addresses us imperfect Christians growing up and maturing into the image of Jesus in the ever-increasing traits of the Spirit (2 Peter 1:8 NIV). Stop discouraging sincere, but perhaps weak born again children of God!

Burden?
Isn't being free from sin the goal of everyone who wants to serve only one God?

Do you believe 1 John 3:9-10 ?..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,..."
The fruit determines the sire.

 

[gordon777]

Rom 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”
Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
Rom 8:17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. (ESV)

Their is a condition in the verses you quoted, the necessity of suffering with Christ, to be glorified together.

Romans 8:25 speaks of the hope we are saved by.

Romans 8:30, continues, destined for being called, then justified, and glorified.



Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.



Suffering afflictions/tribulations, causes experience, and experience hope.


Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.



The love of God shed into our hearts, and hope, remind of another requirement, here in 1 Corinthians 13.

Charity vaunts not itself, it is not puffed up. ( not self assurance) and seeks not her own. Charity hopes all things.



1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

 

[gordon777]

Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (ESV)

Scrolling down to the last verses, we see another condition. ( I am good at seeing conditions.)

The building is fitly framed together, a holy temple in the Lord, we are built together for a habitation of God through the Spirit.


Ephesians 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.



Colossians and various other scriptures reveal what the building is, that Christ is all, and in all.

That is, as the elect of God, they put on mercies, ( not self assurance/lovers of their own selves.) kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, long suffering, above all things putting on charity, the bond of perfectness. ( charity vaunts not itself, is not puffed up, seeks not her own.)


Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

 

[gordon777]

Col 1:21 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,
Col 1:22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,
Col 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister. (ESV)

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! (ESV)

Colossians 1:21-23, again speaks of the hope of the gospel, ( we are saved by hope, not by self assurance.) and of the requirement of continuing in the faith, stedfast.


2 Corinthians 13:5, speaks of the failing of meeting the test. That test is being reprobates.


2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?



Examining of we are reprobates is easy. God has given many over to a reprobate mind, ( those who have a form of godliness. 2 Timothy 3:5.) filled with all unrighteousness, coveting, full of envy, debate, deceit, whisperers, backbiters, despiteful.

Proud, boasters, inventing evil things, ( self assurance. doctrine) without understanding, covenant breakers, no natural affection, implacable, ( strong opinions, cant be corrected on anything.) unmerciful. ( lovers of their own selves. 2 Timothy 3:2.)




Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

 

[gordon777]

If by "entangle" you mean "commit", I agree with your interpretation of my post.
Sin is always nearby for the taking, even seemingly forced on mankind, on occasion, by the media, but we don't ever have to submit to it...thanks be to God.

Burden?
Isn't being free from sin the goal of everyone who wants to serve only one God?

Do you believe 1 John 3:9-10 ?..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,..."
The fruit determines the sire.

You do read your own quotes,

whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,.

Is doing righteousness, having one doctrine, about not committing sin, yet not explaining how we do that ?

Sin is not believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is lowliness, meekness, the righteousness of the Kingdom of Heaven.

That righteousness, is: "whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."


Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Luke 14:7 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them.
8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Burden?

Yes, it's a burden on people to tell them they have to be perfectly sinless, or else they're not really saved.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If by "entangle" you mean "commit", I agree with your interpretation of my post.
Sin is always nearby for the taking, even seemingly forced on mankind, on occasion, by the media, but we don't ever have to submit to it...thanks be to God.

Yes, we don't ever have to submit to sin, but the reality is when we are born again it's the beginning, not the end, of growing up and maturing in the faith and learning how to resist the sin that so easily entangles (Hebrews 12:1).